Boris Johnson-Prime Minister (Vol 8)

[Derek Smith]

El stovey said:

Latest numbers are out.

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-repo...





Plus some interesting data (I thought anyway) on which parties voters would vote for after their usual/last preference.

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-repo...

Edited by El stovey on Friday 20th May 12:41

Thanks for posting.

I'm not sure that such data, even nearer the time, is indicative of the likely outcome of the GE. Most GEs are decided by floating voters; those with no particular party affiliations and who make up their minds using various criteria.

The most significant reasons, brexit aside, of which to vote for for those in no particular club, are the state of the particular party and how the economy is performing. If you go back, brexit aside again, if the incumbent party is squabbling, floating voters are put off. If the opposition is riddled with infighting, they'll stick with the same old. All that is dependent on the economy's performance. If FVs are hit in the pocket, they'll look elsewhere if they believe another party will alleviate their problems.

You'd think the tory party would be in a strong position as all their petty battles were mainly over brexit and this cost them a lot of votes, right up until the last election. It's now over. Back to normal. The problem is that infighting still goes on.

We hear little about labour's battles with their weirdos. These must be going on as normal as well, but it is all carefully concealed, rather like in the times of Blair.

We've always had personality politics, but Johnson took it to a new level. We have a professional comedian leading a country in a war against a superpower, and generating respect around the world. We have an amateur, doing the opposite.

A government with Patel, Mogg, and Dories making vital decisions must put a few more off. It does me. But we'll know in two years I suppose.

A significant lead in the OPs for labour means little at this point. It's interesting though.

[Gecko1978]

El stovey said:

MrBig said:

I think its remarkable what BoJo has achieved, certainly something I never thought I would see in my lifetime... and that is that I will not be voting conservative at the next GE after a lifetime of doing so. And I'm really not a fan of Starmer and the shadow cabinet...

Who would you vote for instead assuming it was tomorrow?

I know it’s difficult without any manifestos etc

I normally vote conservative but if Boris is in charge I’d probably vote for the libdems then conservative then labour then green in order of preference as the parties are today.

If the conservatives get rid of Boris soon and sort their house out a bit and don’t completely implode I might vote for them though.

I am same as MrBig I switched to Libs after last GE. Brexit is done so now they have no undemocratic mantra an they are not labour so why not give them a crack at leadership. The whole student fees thing well all the other parties have kept them so again not an issue

[blueg33]

Murph7355 said:

Good points

If by some miracle one turns up, I'll beat you to the ballot box to vote for them.

Nah - mine a postal vote, it will be in before you are allowed into the polling station

[Murph7355]

andymadmak said:

My read is that if the Libs could come up with some decent policies, and find a good, honest, charismatic leader then they could quickly pick up a LOT of votes.

That's a bit "no st Sherlock" Andy - if my Aunty had bks she'd be my Uncle

If the Tories stuck to their manifesto.... If Labour had any policies... If the Greens weren't so single policy mental. Etc.

[Murph7355]

blueg33 said:

Murph7355 said:

Good points

If by some miracle one turns up, I'll beat you to the ballot box to vote for them.

Nah - mine a postal vote, it will be in before you are allowed into the polling station

You think I go to the actual poll booths and mix with the hoi polloi? Eurgh.

[Murph7355]

bhstewie said:

...
I said on the Starmer thread when new information came out that he appears to have been less than honest and that if he is issued an FPN he should go.

I honestly couldn't care if Starmer does go but I do think it's hilarious how the terriers descended on the Starmer thread claiming Starmer's hypocrisy (whilst being in charge of nothing) is somehow worse than Johnson's actual criminality (whilst being in charge of the country).
.... .

We're both consistent. You just think the 2 leaders should resign over FPN's/parties. I don't think either should. Nor do I think either will.

The hypocrisy calls are different. Starmer threw this st bomb, and for months made out he was holier than thou (not literally thou as nobody is that). So it adds that little bit of amusing icing to the cake, especially when many stand him up as being more intelligent and statesman like

[cirian75]

turbobloke said:

cirian75 said:

Been reading the majority of those fined are female.

In spite of the majority of party goers being male.

Curious if so, however the police don't release names of those issued with a FPN and iirc Boris agreed to say if he got one (Rishi too maybe) but nobody else ? so where do the numbers come from out of interest? Has there been a mass confession?

Mostly junior and female staff got the FPN's, the senior staff mostly male staff and minsters all lawyered and got away with scott free.

https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1527583568263884...

[frisbee]

Levelling Lawyering up... that was always going to look good when it inevitably got out.

[biggbn]

bhstewie said:

andymadmak said:

And yet, the obvious lies already told in regards to beergate don't seem to attract the same level of criticism from you. Yes, KS is not the PM, but if you're going with the line that a pattern of behaviour, rather than the imposition of fines is enough to generate criticism (actually a line I agree with completely) then surely you should be balanced in your criticisms?
Anyways, unless there is a suggestion that the Police are corrupt or have been leant on here, there really is no point in everyone getting super frothy about it. Boris has had a FPN, so in the eyes of the Police he broke the regs at least once. Crying cos it wasn't more is not a good look and actually says more about some of his critics and their motivations than it does about Boris.
I still think he should have resigned before now though. He may be having a 'good war' in Ukraine, but he's a busted flush as far as the electorate are concerned. Unless there is some miracle recovery for him in the polls (unlikely) then I think the Party will replace him before the next election.
My choice of Penny Morduant just needs to time her run..........

I said on the Starmer thread when new information came out that he appears to have been less than honest and that if he is issued an FPN he should go.

I honestly couldn't care if Starmer does go but I do think it's hilarious how the terriers descended on the Starmer thread claiming Starmer's hypocrisy (whilst being in charge of nothing) is somehow worse than Johnson's actual criminality (whilst being in charge of the country).

As for how the Police have handled it other what I said is that I think people will wonder how they got where they did as it will look to a lot of people like junior staff have paid a higher price than the person in charge.

And we still have Johnson refusing to say anything other than we'll have to wait for Sue Gray.

So we're in a strange position where I believe the workplace that was issued with the most Covid fines in the whole of the UK is Downing Street.

I'm amazed anyone is fine with that and if that means I'm being "super frothy" then so be it.

Old Chinese proverb- man caught with hand in cookie jar should not accuse other man of having hand in cookie jar. Johnson is a disaster, Starmer not much better, made a proper fool of himself.

[cirian75]

frisbee said:

Levelling Lawyering up... that was always going to look good when it inevitably got out.

And we will have paid for those lawyers via our taxes

[bitchstewie]

Murph7355 said:

We're both consistent. You just think the 2 leaders should resign over FPN's/parties. I don't think either should. Nor do I think either will.

The hypocrisy calls are different. Starmer threw this st bomb, and for months made out he was holier than thou (not literally thou as nobody is that). So it adds that little bit of amusing icing to the cake, especially when many stand him up as being more intelligent and statesman like

I don't think he should resign just over an FPN I think he should resign for many other reasons.

As Peston said above he's seen junior and female staff carry the can and all pay (literally) a bigger penalty than he has in spite of being at some of the events that saw others fined.

Do you honestly think that's true leader leadership or that it's acceptable from the person who's supposed to set the tone for behaviour in Government?

[Prolex-UK]

El stovey said:

Garvin said:

El stovey said:

Garvin said:

The brunt of ‘partygate’ has been borne by the junior staff. Completely and utterly predictable.

Completely and utterly predictable because their boss is such a poor leader and is a poor decision maker, dishonest, and avoids accountability so when it all keeps going wrong for him, he let’s others below him take the blame for his many failings.

Yet you, instead of looking at those responsible for these behaviours and actions, who should be accountable. . . Hilariously try to blame people pointing out his failings, due to your ridiculous partisanship.

You’re just upset because Boris, your own hate figure, didn’t get ‘stuffed’ by the Met. I previously posted on this topic when the Met started their investigation. At that time I stated I did not agree with the Met getting involved as it would end up with the junior civil service staff getting the majority of the fines and I had sympathy for them. I have always stated that this should be left to Parliament and MPs to sort out. Ultimately public opinion and the electorate can sort it out if necessary.

In no way have I blamed anyone else for Boris’ failings. What I have done, but I realise you are too blinded by your hatred to comprehend it, is put some blame on those calling for the Met to get ‘stuck in’ for the junior staff getting sucked into the affair as collateral damage. In other words Boris should ‘carry the can’ not the underlings.

Wrong again frothychops.

I don’t hate Boris, I like him, I think he’d be a great laugh to go for a drink with, out of all the current MOs he’s probably the one I’d like to have a beer with most, he has a great ability to connect with people and I think he wants everyone to like him.

He does also however have many undesirable qualities that despite making him a laugh would also make him a poor leader, particularly one leading a country.

So no, I don’t hate him at all. I just don’t want him leading our country. Two very different things.

My thoughts as well

Trolley is a great description of him tho

[bitchstewie]

Looks like the public are a cynical bunch.

[anonymous-user]

They forgot the 'who cares' question.

[Murph7355]

cirian75 said:

Mostly junior and female staff got the FPN's, the senior staff mostly male staff and minsters all lawyered and got away with scott free.
...

Classic Peston, although he doesn't even bother with the "I'm not suggesting anything untoward has happened, but..." in this one.

It "seems" male partygoers haven't been fined. Maybe they've just not moaned about getting fined? "Lawyering up"?

Yawn. It shou/ld be a piece of piss for a quality journalist to get some proper facts together and report on it properly.

He's evidently not a quality journalist. He's a dick.

[Murph7355]

bhstewie said:

I don't think he should resign just over an FPN I think he should resign for many other reasons.

As Peston said above he's seen junior and female staff carry the can and all pay (literally) a bigger penalty than he has in spite of being at some of the events that saw others fined.

Do you honestly think that's true leader leadership or that it's acceptable from the person who's supposed to set the tone for behaviour in Government?

Peston's well researched article is just the sort of thing that always gets you moist.

It's bks. Like most of the "journalistic" articles you start threads with.

If these people went to the "not parties" then I'm sure the Police will have worked that out and fined them.

Why were more women and juniors fined? That Peston article gives no clues at all other than bias and bullst and trying to stoke some division.

How many people were at each event? How many were fined at each event and of what gender/age/earnings level? Did they all answer your beloved "under caution questionnaires" the same way? Has the Conservative party offered to pony up for the fines?

Or....

Are the Police bent and, under instruction from Boris himself, looked at the gender, age and earnings of the attendees and fined the female, young and low earning ones the most?

[Murph7355]

bhstewie said:

Looks like the public are a cynical bunch....

Called it when it first started.

If Gray's report doesn't state categorically that Boris is the devil incarnate, and the Police don't send him to the Scrubs for life, those who called for the investigations will believe Gray and the Police are bent.

It was always a waste of time, effort and money. Those who never gave a st, still won't give a st (and probably wouldn't give a st about reading a YouGov invite). Those who cared deeply only want one outcome, and no matter how many reports are written, even if God himself wrote them, if that outcome isn't the result, there will have been unfair play.

[Vanden Saab]

bhstewie said:

I don't think he should resign just over an FPN I think he should resign for many other reasons.

As Peston said above he's seen junior and female staff carry the can and all pay (literally) a bigger penalty than he has in spite of being at some of the events that saw others fined.

Do you honestly think that's true leader leadership or that it's acceptable from the person who's supposed to set the tone for behaviour in Government?

Oh wait, now you care about the little people you threw under the bus in a desperate attempt to get at the big dog...

[stongle]

Murph7355 said:

cirian75 said:

Mostly junior and female staff got the FPN's, the senior staff mostly male staff and minsters all lawyered and got away with scott free.
...

Classic Peston, although he doesn't even bother with the "I'm not suggesting anything untoward has happened, but..." in this one.

It "seems" male partygoers haven't been fined. Maybe they've just not moaned about getting fined? "Lawyering up"?

Yawn. It shou/ld be a piece of piss for a quality journalist to get some proper facts together and report on it properly.

He's evidently not a quality journalist. He's a dick.

Nearly fell off my chair laughing at this one....

Oh, the unfairness.

It just couldn't be that the secretarial and junior staffing pool, are mostly women: could it?

And another thing, that anyone whose ever been to ANY work party will tell you. The first people to leave or GTFO are the more senior people. Generally they've got better things to do than eat cake and slag off Bertha the office bike.

It's just clickbait trolling of the highest order. What might constitute better journalism and investigative reporting - who fked up inflation policies No.10 or No.11. If all No.10 does is eat cake and fk about, why didn't No.11 come up with obviously better policy response?

[bitchstewie]

Murph7355 said:

Peston's well researched article is just the sort of thing that always gets you moist.

It's bks. Like most of the "journalistic" articles you start threads with.

If these people went to the "not parties" then I'm sure the Police will have worked that out and fined them.

Why were more women and juniors fined? That Peston article gives no clues at all other than bias and bullst and trying to stoke some division.

How many people were at each event? How many were fined at each event and of what gender/age/earnings level? Did they all answer your beloved "under caution questionnaires" the same way? Has the Conservative party offered to pony up for the fines?

Or....

Are the Police bent and, under instruction from Boris himself, looked at the gender, age and earnings of the attendees and fined the female, young and low earning ones the most?

You're starting to sound a bit ranty Murph.

"Do you honestly think that's true leader leadership or that it's acceptable from the person who's supposed to set the tone for behaviour in Government?"

Lots of words but no answer.