Boris Johnson-Prime Minister (Vol 8)
Discussion
Hardly anything erth shattering in there, TBH. Bozza will shrug it off. This is the worst bit and it's not exactly fierce in it's damnation.
2. Whatever the initial intent, what took place at many of these gatherings and the
way in which they developed was not in line with Covid guidance at the time.
Even allowing for the extraordinary pressures officials and advisers were under,
the factual findings of this report illustrate some attitudes and behaviours
inconsistent with that guidance. It is also clear, from the outcome of the police
investigation, that a large number of individuals (83) who [b] attended these events
breached Covid regulations and therefore Covid guidance. [/b]
3. I have already commented in my update on what I found to be failures of
leadership and judgment in No 10 and the Cabinet Office. The events that I
investigated were attended by leaders in government. Many of these events
should not have been allowed to happen. It is also the case that some of the
more junior civil servants believed that their involvement in some of these
events was permitted given the attendance of senior leaders. [b] The senior
leadership at the centre, both political and official, must bear responsibility for
this culture. [/b]
Edited because I obviously can't make things bold
2. Whatever the initial intent, what took place at many of these gatherings and the
way in which they developed was not in line with Covid guidance at the time.
Even allowing for the extraordinary pressures officials and advisers were under,
the factual findings of this report illustrate some attitudes and behaviours
inconsistent with that guidance. It is also clear, from the outcome of the police
investigation, that a large number of individuals (83) who [b] attended these events
breached Covid regulations and therefore Covid guidance. [/b]
3. I have already commented in my update on what I found to be failures of
leadership and judgment in No 10 and the Cabinet Office. The events that I
investigated were attended by leaders in government. Many of these events
should not have been allowed to happen. It is also the case that some of the
more junior civil servants believed that their involvement in some of these
events was permitted given the attendance of senior leaders. [b] The senior
leadership at the centre, both political and official, must bear responsibility for
this culture. [/b]
Edited because I obviously can't make things bold
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 25th May 11:46
roger.mellie said:
Derek Smith said:
I thought I'd pull up this thread to see what the PH massive thought of last night's Panorama.
Only joking. Of course I didn't expect to find much discussion.
I didn't see it but thanks for the reminder, I'll watch it at some point if it's worth a watch?Only joking. Of course I didn't expect to find much discussion.
I have developed a belief in the way things are run at #10 and I accept it is a prejudice, albeit reinforced by news from all sides of the political spectrum. This just confirmed it; not what you should do with prejudices I suppose. It is clear that they ignored the restrictions on a weekly basis, at least. Difficult to argue against the condemnation on the programme.
It made me angry. It's not just that I followed the regs to the letter. That's what I do after 30 years as a police officer. I accept that I'm a bit unusual that way. But there are limits, and the legislators should behave responsibly. I was restricted in my private life when a bobbie, to the extent of not being able to indulge in behaviour that might make the public believe I was incapable of discharging my responsibilities impartially. These restrictions were irritating, petty - I could not be a governor of the school my four children went to - but restrictions went with the job.
Dixy said:
pghstochaj said:
My wife is an NHS consultant, she didn't mention parties to me. Perhaps you know better?
I wonder what else she did not mention to you that she gets up to.I only have 2 immediate family members who are junior doctors who worked on the front line through out the pandemic in 2 different hospitals, both say there were frequent cake gatherings and more. To me that seams totally appropriate as they were a way of coping with an unbelievably stressful and challenging situation. The same applies to No 10 for me.
But that wont fill media column inches or clickbait.
Murph7355 said:
Blackpuddin said:
...
If I was the leader of the opposition right now I'd be trying to organise a mass no-show on that side of the House so that Johnson can literally talk to nobody.
Would anyone notice?If I was the leader of the opposition right now I'd be trying to organise a mass no-show on that side of the House so that Johnson can literally talk to nobody.
b
hstewie said:
hstewie said: How it started.
"all guidance was followed completely"
How it's going.
"what took place at many of these gatherings and the way in which they developed was not in line with Covid guidance at the time."
Slightly different:"all guidance was followed completely"
How it's going.
"what took place at many of these gatherings and the way in which they developed was not in line with Covid guidance at the time."
How it started.
"all guidance was followed completely"
How it's going.
"what took place at many of these gatherings and the way in which they developed was not in line with Covid guidance at the time and this seems to have been fully understood by the people attending these gathering."
"Following the email, the same No 10 special adviser sent a message to Martin
Reynolds by WhatsApp at 14.08 stating µDrinks this eve is a lovel\ idea so I¶ve
shared with the E & V team who are in the office. Just to flag that the press
conference will probably be finishing around that time, so helpful if people can be
mindful of that as speakers and cameras are leaving, not walking around waving
bottles of Zine etc¶. Martin Reynolds replied µWill do my best!….¶"
Blackpuddin said:
That's about as damning a report as it could have been. Gray has been careful to detach the activity and attitudes in No 10 from those of the Civil Service as a whole.
An important point about the civil service (I've been in it for 38 years) is the distinction between civil servants and politicians and the way their influence spreads down through the system like the roots spreading down from a tree.99% of the civil service did absolutely no "partying" whatsoever. There were rules that were strictly adhered to and because everyone else was sticking to them there was nobody for any rebels to have a party with. My guess is that private offices in each government department probably bent the rules a bit because the politicians influence means they are always used to working slightly outside the civil service norms. But Number10 looks like it was working on another level from anyone else. The most fined address in the UK for breaking lockdown rules was the one that was making the rules. You couldn't make it up. I would absolutely love to be a fly on the wall there an hear what the staff there are talking about now.
OnTheBreadline said:
Hardly anything erth shattering in there, TBH. Bozza will shrug it off. This is the worst bit and it's not exactly fierce in it's damnation.
2. Whatever the initial intent, what took place at many of these gatherings and the
way in which they developed was not in line with Covid guidance at the time.
Even allowing for the extraordinary pressures officials and advisers were under,
the factual findings of this report illustrate some attitudes and behaviours
inconsistent with that guidance. It is also clear, from the outcome of the police
investigation, that a large number of individuals (83) who [b] attended these events
breached Covid regulations and therefore Covid guidance. [/b]
3. I have already commented in my update on what I found to be failures of
leadership and judgment in No 10 and the Cabinet Office. The events that I
investigated were attended by leaders in government. Many of these events
should not have been allowed to happen. It is also the case that some of the
more junior civil servants believed that their involvement in some of these
events was permitted given the attendance of senior leaders. [b] The senior
leadership at the centre, both political and official, must bear responsibility for
this culture. [/b]
Edited because I obviously can't make things bold
How have you come to the conclusion that that is the worst bit? 2. Whatever the initial intent, what took place at many of these gatherings and the
way in which they developed was not in line with Covid guidance at the time.
Even allowing for the extraordinary pressures officials and advisers were under,
the factual findings of this report illustrate some attitudes and behaviours
inconsistent with that guidance. It is also clear, from the outcome of the police
investigation, that a large number of individuals (83) who [b] attended these events
breached Covid regulations and therefore Covid guidance. [/b]
3. I have already commented in my update on what I found to be failures of
leadership and judgment in No 10 and the Cabinet Office. The events that I
investigated were attended by leaders in government. Many of these events
should not have been allowed to happen. It is also the case that some of the
more junior civil servants believed that their involvement in some of these
events was permitted given the attendance of senior leaders. [b] The senior
leadership at the centre, both political and official, must bear responsibility for
this culture. [/b]
Edited because I obviously can't make things bold
Edited by OnTheBreadline on Wednesday 25th May 11:46
How about 'multiple examples of a lack of respect and poor treatment
of security and cleaning staff. This was unacceptable.'
Or 'there is no excuse for some of the behaviour set out here'.
Or 'failures of leadership and judgment in No 10 and the Cabinet Office'.
Or 'the public have a right to expect the very highest standards of behaviour in such places and clearly what happened fell well short of this'.
Or 'against the backdrop of the pandemic, when the Government was asking
citizens to accept far-reaching restrictions on their lives, some of the behaviour surrounding these gatherings is difficult to justify'.
Or 'a serious failure to observe not just the high standards expected of those working at the heart of Government but also of the standards expected of the entire British population at the time'.
Or 'there was too little thought given to what was happening across the country in considering the appropriateness of some of these gatherings, the risks they presented to public health and how they might appear to the public. There were failures of leadership and judgment by different parts of No 10 and the Cabinet Office at different times. Some of the events should not have been allowed to take place. Other events should not have been allowed to develop as they did'.
Or 'the excessive consumption of alcohol is not appropriate in a professional
workplace at any time'.
Or 'some staff wanted to raise concerns about behaviours they witnessed at work but at times felt unable to do so. No member of staff should feel unable to report or challenge poor conduct where they witness it'.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: Johnson breaks his own rules and lies repeatedly about it.
Johnson apologists attack the people trying to save lives.
Sounds about right.
They really miss the nasty party most thought died in 1997.Johnson apologists attack the people trying to save lives.
Sounds about right.
Clearly not, throw anyone under a bus to hold on to power for another few hours. Lovely.
Blackpuddin said:
Murph7355 said:
Blackpuddin said:
...
If I was the leader of the opposition right now I'd be trying to organise a mass no-show on that side of the House so that Johnson can literally talk to nobody.
Would anyone notice?If I was the leader of the opposition right now I'd be trying to organise a mass no-show on that side of the House so that Johnson can literally talk to nobody.
And you forgot my second comment. Walking out "because parties" when one had parties themselves is not a good look.
Murph7355 said:
Blackpuddin said:
Murph7355 said:
Blackpuddin said:
...
If I was the leader of the opposition right now I'd be trying to organise a mass no-show on that side of the House so that Johnson can literally talk to nobody.
Would anyone notice?If I was the leader of the opposition right now I'd be trying to organise a mass no-show on that side of the House so that Johnson can literally talk to nobody.
And you forgot my second comment. Walking out "because parties" when one had parties themselves is not a good look.
silentbrown said:
Thanks for posting.Decent report. Objective and to the point, fair. Just as people expected of Ms Gray.
Murph7355 said:
Blackpuddin said:
Murph7355 said:
Blackpuddin said:
...
If I was the leader of the opposition right now I'd be trying to organise a mass no-show on that side of the House so that Johnson can literally talk to nobody.
Would anyone notice?If I was the leader of the opposition right now I'd be trying to organise a mass no-show on that side of the House so that Johnson can literally talk to nobody.
And you forgot my second comment. Walking out "because parties" when one had parties themselves is not a good look.
Blackpuddin said:
OnTheBreadline said:
Hardly anything erth shattering in there, TBH. Bozza will shrug it off. This is the worst bit and it's not exactly fierce in it's damnation.
2. Whatever the initial intent, what took place at many of these gatherings and the
way in which they developed was not in line with Covid guidance at the time.
Even allowing for the extraordinary pressures officials and advisers were under,
the factual findings of this report illustrate some attitudes and behaviours
inconsistent with that guidance. It is also clear, from the outcome of the police
investigation, that a large number of individuals (83) who [b] attended these events
breached Covid regulations and therefore Covid guidance. [/b]
3. I have already commented in my update on what I found to be failures of
leadership and judgment in No 10 and the Cabinet Office. The events that I
investigated were attended by leaders in government. Many of these events
should not have been allowed to happen. It is also the case that some of the
more junior civil servants believed that their involvement in some of these
events was permitted given the attendance of senior leaders. [b] The senior
leadership at the centre, both political and official, must bear responsibility for
this culture. [/b]
Edited because I obviously can't make things bold
How have you come to the conclusion that that is the worst bit? 2. Whatever the initial intent, what took place at many of these gatherings and the
way in which they developed was not in line with Covid guidance at the time.
Even allowing for the extraordinary pressures officials and advisers were under,
the factual findings of this report illustrate some attitudes and behaviours
inconsistent with that guidance. It is also clear, from the outcome of the police
investigation, that a large number of individuals (83) who [b] attended these events
breached Covid regulations and therefore Covid guidance. [/b]
3. I have already commented in my update on what I found to be failures of
leadership and judgment in No 10 and the Cabinet Office. The events that I
investigated were attended by leaders in government. Many of these events
should not have been allowed to happen. It is also the case that some of the
more junior civil servants believed that their involvement in some of these
events was permitted given the attendance of senior leaders. [b] The senior
leadership at the centre, both political and official, must bear responsibility for
this culture. [/b]
Edited because I obviously can't make things bold
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 25th May 11:46
How about 'multiple examples of a lack of respect and poor treatment
of security and cleaning staff. This was unacceptable.'
Or 'there is no excuse for some of the behaviour set out here'.
Or 'failures of leadership and judgment in No 10 and the Cabinet Office'.
Or 'the public have a right to expect the very highest standards of behaviour in such places and clearly what happened fell well short of this'.
Or 'against the backdrop of the pandemic, when the Government was asking
citizens to accept far-reaching restrictions on their lives, some of the behaviour surrounding these gatherings is difficult to justify'.
Or 'a serious failure to observe not just the high standards expected of those working at the heart of Government but also of the standards expected of the entire British population at the time'.
Or 'there was too little thought given to what was happening across the country in considering the appropriateness of some of these gatherings, the risks they presented to public health and how they might appear to the public. There were failures of leadership and judgment by different parts of No 10 and the Cabinet Office at different times. Some of the events should not have been allowed to take place. Other events should not have been allowed to develop as they did'.
Or 'the excessive consumption of alcohol is not appropriate in a professional
workplace at any time'.
Or 'some staff wanted to raise concerns about behaviours they witnessed at work but at times felt unable to do so. No member of staff should feel unable to report or challenge poor conduct where they witness it'.
All people want to see is a summary of how badly/deliberately Boris broke the rules. And I don't see much in there other than that which I highlighted which makes it "his" problem, rather than a critique of the civil service in a wider view.
Murph7355 said:
silentbrown said:
Thanks for posting.Decent report. Objective and to the point, fair. Just as people expected of Ms Gray.
My suspicion is that Ms Gray, who is after all a civil servant, has not wanted to make it look like the CS is that bad and in doing so, has allowed Johnson an easy ride.
Interesting that Johnson is expected to say this to the commons later on
“I commissioned this report to set the record straight and allow us all to move on. I accept full responsibility for my failings. I am humbled by the whole experience. We have learned our lesson.”
Not that he has learned his lesson!
AW111 said:
Where's turbobloke?
It's a bit poor leaving the "defend Boris at all costs" to Murphy and Bandit.
He's probably getting ready to defend himself in parliament later on. It's a bit poor leaving the "defend Boris at all costs" to Murphy and Bandit.
Anyway "Nearly 4,000 passengers were issued fines for not wearing face coverings on London's transport network when it was mandatory to do so"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-61558...
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