45th President Of The United States, Donald Trump (Vol. 13)

[wisbech]

From the FT today

"It is an extraordinary moment. The party of law and order may be lining up against an American bedrock principle that no person shall be above the law. But the situation could be even riskier than that. Bragg is African-American. Trump has described Bragg as an “animal” and a “degenerate psychopath”. A Republican senator, Rand Paul, has demanded Bragg’s arrest. Republican lawmaker Marjorie Taylor Greene has called for George Soros, who indirectly funded Bragg’s campaign for district attorney, to be stripped of his citizenship"

[hidetheelephants]

Strangely Brown said:

MrBogSmith said:

The religious, traditional, family orientated Republican base seem to overlook the underlying subject matter - that Trump had an affair whilst his new wife was pregnant with an 'adult firm star', who he then paid to keep quiet.

That's true. But I don't think that is why he is being indicted.

It is perfectly fine to pay a porn star not to blab to your pregnant wife. However, it is, apparently, not fine to falsify your business records to cover up that you paid her.

Who'd a thunk it?

It's more using political donations to pay for it and doing so during an election campaign; campaign finance violations, offences for which Cohen actually went to gaol for.

[Byker28i]

It's worth remembering that trump paying his former sex partners to hide from voters that he cheated on Melania is not illegal.

However trump again muddled up charity/company money, thinking it was his to spend how he liked, ignoring all campaign laws.

Having corporations pay sexual partners to keep quiet so that the voters didn't find out, and befitting his political campaign is illegal. The company that owned the National Enquirer paid for the first payment, to McDougal; trump Organization, by reimbursing the payment that Michael Cohen made, eventually paid for the second payment, to Daniels, which trump signed the cheque for.

Then trying to fudge the payments as inflated 'legal expenses' again illegal.

Then of course there was trumps DOJ, interfering in the Cohen investigation repeatedly, as laid out in Geoffrey Berman’s book. They demanded the SDNY rewrite Cohen’s statement of offense to hide that trump ordered the hush payments, whilst changing co-conspirator #1 to just individual #1.

The Bill Barr tried to interfere as he did with Flynn and get SDNY to drop all charges against Cohen, and got possible charges against trump dropped then. The GOP FEC Commissioners Sean Cooksey and Trey Trainor refused to charge trump saying Cohen had already admitted/ already prosecuted for it and there was no point in going after trump
https://www.fec.gov/files/legal/murs/7379/7379_17....

There were 22 credible campaign finance allegations against trump that Republicans protected him from
https://www.thedailybeast.com/donald-trump-is-now-...

[cgt2]

Strangely Brown said:

It would be remarkably sweet if he were unable to control his ego and temper and launched a tirade at the judge.

Judge: I find you in contempt.<bang> 30 days.<bang> Would you like to try for 60?

Well he has already used violent language towards the DA last week which could well be one of the counts as it is obstruction of justice.

[silentbrown]

I so enjoy Sir M.Take, CBE

[cgt2]

This is bigger than Stormy Daniels. There is Karen McDougal, the conspiracy with the National Enquirer to buy and kill that story (which Pecker has immunity for in exchange for testifying). As Byker says this is quite substantial and we won't see the full extent until the indictment is unsealed. Also on the table are possible further charges for Weisselberg which I assume are being used as leverage to gain his cooperation and avoid further jail time.

It's incredible how many so called legal experts are on channels like CNN talking absolute bks about it being a weak case. That Elie Honig guy on CNN may be ex-SDNY but he is an absolute lightweight and jumping to all kinds of conclusions.

NO ONE HAS SEEN THE FUC*ING INDICTMENT YET. My suspicious is that it's going to be very substantial as there is a reason Bragg delayed so long.

[Mortarboard]

cgt2 said:

This is bigger than Stormy Daniels. There is Karen McDougal, the conspiracy with the National Enquirer to buy and kill that story (which Pecker has immunity for in exchange for testifying). As Byker says this is quite substantial and we won't see the full extent until the indictment is unsealed. Also on the table are possible further charges for Weisselberg which I assume are being used as leverage to gain his cooperation and avoid further jail time.

It's incredible how many so called legal experts are on channels like CNN talking absolute bks about it being a weak case. That Elie Honig guy on CNN may be ex-SDNY but he is an absolute lightweight and jumping to all kinds of conclusions.

NO ONE HAS SEEN THE FUC*ING INDICTMENT YET. My suspicious is that it's going to be very substantial as there is a reason Bragg delayed so long.

I believe the apparent "weakness" was the assumption/view it was a "conspiracy" type charge. Trump was removed as "unindicted co-conspirator" from the case Cohen was prosecuted for.
However, as the indictment appears to have 30 or more charges, I suspect it's multiple counts of tax "fraud", i.e. multiple things charged as business expenses. If that's the case, that's a lot stronger than the conspiracy charge. But it'll be guilty/not guilty of all of those line items I'd imagine.

But the irony is, that's the weakest of all the stuff coming up:
-E Jean Carroll (not sure if civil suit or criminal case)
-January 6th
-Georgia interference

Of all of those, the Georgia intereference is the most perilous. "Oh lordy, there are tapes!"
When arraigned, as part of the process, DNA sample is taken. The E Jean Carroll case, if criminal, could result in a serious charge. How difficult to prove, not sure.

M.

[cgt2]

Mortarboard said:

I believe the apparent "weakness" was the assumption/view it was a "conspiracy" type charge. Trump was removed as "unindicted co-conspirator" from the case Cohen was prosecuted for.
However, as the indictment appears to have 30 or more charges, I suspect it's multiple counts of tax "fraud", i.e. multiple things charged as business expenses. If that's the case, that's a lot stronger than the conspiracy charge. But it'll be guilty/not guilty of all of those line items I'd imagine.

But the irony is, that's the weakest of all the stuff coming up:
-E Jean Carroll (not sure if civil suit or criminal case)
-January 6th
-Georgia interference

Of all of those, the Georgia intereference is the most perilous. "Oh lordy, there are tapes!"
When arraigned, as part of the process, DNA sample is taken. The E Jean Carroll case, if criminal, could result in a serious charge. How difficult to prove, not sure.

M.

I'm always reminded of the Cosby case when the Carroll case is mentioned. Similar timeframe, but in this case she apparently has DNA... his life is certainly not going to get any easier from this point on.

[Mortarboard]

If the DNA matches, then it becomes consensual/rape decision, hence the uncertainty of conviction.
Defamation suit for sure if it matches though.

M.

[moffspeed]

America may need to buckle up for a wild coming-weekend. The violent rhetoric is flying and Trump and his stormtroopers are doing nothing to discourage this. It can only get worse, the voice of reason is missing.

My worry is that, in a basement somewhere, a MAGA loon(s) is polishing his AR-15 and planning to go to work on behalf of the “boss” . A bit of de-Democratisation, either random or targeted.

Better off dead (or even red) than being one of them woke Dems…..

[silentbrown]

Mortarboard said:

If the DNA matches, then it becomes consensual/rape decision, hence the uncertainty of conviction.
Defamation suit for sure if it matches though.

Carroll case is a civil one, not criminal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adult_Survivors_Act

[Mortarboard]

silentbrown said:

Mortarboard said:

If the DNA matches, then it becomes consensual/rape decision, hence the uncertainty of conviction.
Defamation suit for sure if it matches though.

Carroll case is a civil one, not criminal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adult_Survivors_Act

That's almost worse for him, as it's about money. He hates losing money (his own, anyway)

M.

[Blackpuddin]

captain_cynic said:

Also I'm pretty certain that most of his supporters know he's a criminal, but he's their criminal.

He also plays into their persecution/martyrdom complex. The only reason they ended up in the trailer park was because they were screwed by The Man etc etc, they're bitter about the way life has treated them and it seems that they see similar in Trump but the difference is he did well for himself so there's still a chance for them if they nail their colours to his mast etc etc.

[cgt2]

silentbrown said:

Carroll case is a civil one, not criminal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adult_Survivors_Act

It is but I thought there was also the prospect of a criminal charge being revived as New York has enacted a survivors law for historic sex offences to be filed in the wake of Weinstein. Not sure if that was only for a limited time though.

I haven't paid close attention anyone know?

[Drive Blind]

surely all that's going to happen now is the lying, gaslighting, whataboutery and deflection is just going to get turned up to 11 ?

also loving the role Stormy Daniels is playing in this. Trump and his supporters thought they could bully and shame her. Calling a porn star a slut, aye that will silence her lol

[silentbrown]

cgt2 said:

silentbrown said:

Carroll case is a civil one, not criminal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adult_Survivors_Act

It is but I thought there was also the prospect of a criminal charge being revived as New York has enacted a survivors law for historic sex offences to be filed in the wake of Weinstein. Not sure if that was only for a limited time though.

I haven't paid close attention anyone know?

Read the wiki link. The new act allows civil cases to be brought

[off_again]

Drive Blind said:

surely all that's going to happen now is the lying, gaslighting, whataboutery and deflection is just going to get turned up to 11 ?

also loving the role Stormy Daniels is playing in this. Trump and his supporters thought they could bully and shame her. Calling a porn star a slut, aye that will silence her lol

Yup, its fantastic. And dont forget that Trump called Daniels 'horse face' - which says more about him than it does about her. Trump was the one that shagged her, but now she's ugly? Yeah, right. That works.

[Al Gorithum]

off_again said:

Trump was the one that shagged her, but now she's ugly? Yeah, right. That works.

PAID to shag her

[pinchmeimdreamin]

Mortarboard said:

I believe the apparent "weakness" was the assumption/view it was a "conspiracy" type charge. Trump was removed as "unindicted co-conspirator" from the case Cohen was prosecuted for.
However, as the indictment appears to have 30 or more charges, I suspect it's multiple counts of tax "fraud", i.e. multiple things charged as business expenses. If that's the case, that's a lot stronger than the conspiracy charge. But it'll be guilty/not guilty of all of those line items I'd imagine.


M.

I have a feeling Bragg has made sure the case is as watertight as possible, he must know every inch of this will be scrutinised the whole world so won’t risk going ahead with a weak case?

[CambsBill]

Mortarboard said:

silentbrown said:

Carroll case is a civil one, not criminal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adult_Survivors_Act

That's almost worse for him, as it's about money. He hates losing money (his own, anyway)

M.

Assuming it's the same in the USA as in the UK then that means that the burden of proof is lower (more than 50:50 rather than beyond reasonable doubt), which won't help Trump at all. Mind you. a pound to a penny says he automatically appeals when/if he loses the Carroll case.