CV19 - Cure Worse Than The Disease? (Vol 18)
Discussion
poo at Paul's said:
Yiu have no evidence for your ‘utter tripe’ comments, but there is plenty to refute it. It’s impossible to debate it with someone so head in the sand, you will be trotting out the normal bulls
t in a minute about 2 years of no school for kids, two years of lockdowns, pubs shut etc etc. the reality is the lockdowns DID have the desired effect of stemming and reversing exponential growth of cases, easing pressure on health services and other care scenarios. The stats clearly show that, but of course you wont believe them, because you believe bullst off Facebook.
Same with the vaccinations. You’ll claim there’s no evidence they work, but they clearly do and did. But you’ll claim it was immunity from infections, despite less than a third of the country so far having actually caught it, still, but 90 percent odd of adults having been vaccinated.
As I say, no point debating it. You’ll just spout rhetoric and BS with nothing to back it up, except your own perverse interpretation of what are very clear statistics.
And of course, you worn answer the question, where would you have preferred to be, India, Brazil, China or UK?
We all know the answer, so no need to bother.
No country’s plans were perfect, some were awful. But you’re a clown to pretend the UK has not not fared better than most other countries. And whilst you and your deluded ilk may ‘never vote for this lot ever again’ my point is that the majority will not let Covid affect their voting decision making, not least that as I pointed out, there was pretty much universal agreement from all parties as to what policies and regulations to adopt throughout. So, who ARE you going to vote for?
Brilliant!! I think this can be used as the textbook definition for a "strawman argument"!t in a minute about 2 years of no school for kids, two years of lockdowns, pubs shut etc etc. the reality is the lockdowns DID have the desired effect of stemming and reversing exponential growth of cases, easing pressure on health services and other care scenarios. The stats clearly show that, but of course you wont believe them, because you believe bullst off Facebook. Same with the vaccinations. You’ll claim there’s no evidence they work, but they clearly do and did. But you’ll claim it was immunity from infections, despite less than a third of the country so far having actually caught it, still, but 90 percent odd of adults having been vaccinated.
As I say, no point debating it. You’ll just spout rhetoric and BS with nothing to back it up, except your own perverse interpretation of what are very clear statistics.
And of course, you worn answer the question, where would you have preferred to be, India, Brazil, China or UK?
We all know the answer, so no need to bother.
No country’s plans were perfect, some were awful. But you’re a clown to pretend the UK has not not fared better than most other countries. And whilst you and your deluded ilk may ‘never vote for this lot ever again’ my point is that the majority will not let Covid affect their voting decision making, not least that as I pointed out, there was pretty much universal agreement from all parties as to what policies and regulations to adopt throughout. So, who ARE you going to vote for?
poo at Paul's said:
Yiu have no evidence for your ‘utter tripe’ comments, but there is plenty to refute it. It’s impossible to debate it with someone so head in the sand, you will be trotting out the normal bullst in a minute about 2 years of no school for kids, two years of lockdowns, pubs shut etc etc. the reality is the lockdowns DID have the desired effect of stemming and reversing exponential growth of cases, easing pressure on health services and other care scenarios. The stats clearly show that, but of course you wont believe them, because you believe bullst off Facebook.
Same with the vaccinations. You’ll claim there’s no evidence they work, but they clearly do and did. But you’ll claim it was immunity from infections, despite less than a third of the country so far having actually caught it, still, but 90 percent odd of adults having been vaccinated.
As I say, no point debating it. You’ll just spout rhetoric and BS with nothing to back it up, except your own perverse interpretation of what are very clear statistics.
And of course, you worn answer the question, where would you have preferred to be, India, Brazil, China or UK?
We all know the answer, so no need to bother.
No country’s plans were perfect, some were awful. But you’re a clown to pretend the UK has not not fared better than most other countries. And whilst you and your deluded ilk may ‘never vote for this lot ever again’ my point is that the majority will not let Covid affect their voting decision making, not least that as I pointed out, there was pretty much universal agreement from all parties as to what policies and regulations to adopt throughout. So, who ARE you going to vote for?
You may have responded to the wrong poster about their voting intentions but I will await with interest the response………..t in a minute about 2 years of no school for kids, two years of lockdowns, pubs shut etc etc. the reality is the lockdowns DID have the desired effect of stemming and reversing exponential growth of cases, easing pressure on health services and other care scenarios. The stats clearly show that, but of course you wont believe them, because you believe bullst off Facebook. Same with the vaccinations. You’ll claim there’s no evidence they work, but they clearly do and did. But you’ll claim it was immunity from infections, despite less than a third of the country so far having actually caught it, still, but 90 percent odd of adults having been vaccinated.
As I say, no point debating it. You’ll just spout rhetoric and BS with nothing to back it up, except your own perverse interpretation of what are very clear statistics.
And of course, you worn answer the question, where would you have preferred to be, India, Brazil, China or UK?
We all know the answer, so no need to bother.
No country’s plans were perfect, some were awful. But you’re a clown to pretend the UK has not not fared better than most other countries. And whilst you and your deluded ilk may ‘never vote for this lot ever again’ my point is that the majority will not let Covid affect their voting decision making, not least that as I pointed out, there was pretty much universal agreement from all parties as to what policies and regulations to adopt throughout. So, who ARE you going to vote for?
Where is your evidence that the restrictions did have the desired effect? IIRC there were some stats which showed that cases were already slowing down before the restrictions were implemented.
And as for easing pressure on the health services - just remind us all what the waiting lists are like right now?
I am not sure who has their head in the sand here - have you come across “it is easier to fool people than convince them that they have been fooled”
I suppose you believe all that our government advisors spouted as well - here’s an interesting article for you
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10804993/...
Challo said:
GSE said:
Oh and it's far from over yet.
The EU cooking up plans for further control...
https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-rel...
https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/policies/corona...
But we are no in the EU so it doesn't matter. The EU cooking up plans for further control...
https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-rel...
https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/policies/corona...
EddieSteadyGo said:
poo at Paul's said:
Yiu have no evidence for your ‘utter tripe’ comments, but there is plenty to refute it. It’s impossible to debate it with someone so head in the sand, you will be trotting out the normal bullst in a minute about 2 years of no school for kids, two years of lockdowns, pubs shut etc etc. the reality is the lockdowns DID have the desired effect of stemming and reversing exponential growth of cases, easing pressure on health services and other care scenarios. The stats clearly show that, but of course you wont believe them, because you believe bullst off Facebook.
Same with the vaccinations. You’ll claim there’s no evidence they work, but they clearly do and did. But you’ll claim it was immunity from infections, despite less than a third of the country so far having actually caught it, still, but 90 percent odd of adults having been vaccinated.
As I say, no point debating it. You’ll just spout rhetoric and BS with nothing to back it up, except your own perverse interpretation of what are very clear statistics.
And of course, you worn answer the question, where would you have preferred to be, India, Brazil, China or UK?
We all know the answer, so no need to bother.
No country’s plans were perfect, some were awful. But you’re a clown to pretend the UK has not not fared better than most other countries. And whilst you and your deluded ilk may ‘never vote for this lot ever again’ my point is that the majority will not let Covid affect their voting decision making, not least that as I pointed out, there was pretty much universal agreement from all parties as to what policies and regulations to adopt throughout. So, who ARE you going to vote for?
Brilliant!! I think this can be used as the textbook definition for a "strawman argument"!t in a minute about 2 years of no school for kids, two years of lockdowns, pubs shut etc etc. the reality is the lockdowns DID have the desired effect of stemming and reversing exponential growth of cases, easing pressure on health services and other care scenarios. The stats clearly show that, but of course you wont believe them, because you believe bullst off Facebook. Same with the vaccinations. You’ll claim there’s no evidence they work, but they clearly do and did. But you’ll claim it was immunity from infections, despite less than a third of the country so far having actually caught it, still, but 90 percent odd of adults having been vaccinated.
As I say, no point debating it. You’ll just spout rhetoric and BS with nothing to back it up, except your own perverse interpretation of what are very clear statistics.
And of course, you worn answer the question, where would you have preferred to be, India, Brazil, China or UK?
We all know the answer, so no need to bother.
No country’s plans were perfect, some were awful. But you’re a clown to pretend the UK has not not fared better than most other countries. And whilst you and your deluded ilk may ‘never vote for this lot ever again’ my point is that the majority will not let Covid affect their voting decision making, not least that as I pointed out, there was pretty much universal agreement from all parties as to what policies and regulations to adopt throughout. So, who ARE you going to vote for?
isaldiri said:
Boringvolvodriver said:
But ain’t that the thing - one cannot prove either side of the debate.
Yes there are the published figures and the excess death figures (and that’s before the “with” or “from” issue), the amount of money that was spent on all the various schemes in place and the estimates of lost income for business along with the increase NHS waiting lists but unless we can set up a parallel universe where different actions were taken, then we cannot be able to say for sure.
It works for both sides so asking anyone to prove it is pointless in my opinion
Define 'prove'. If it's absolutely clearcut black and white certainty then sure, it can't and won't exist. Yes there are the published figures and the excess death figures (and that’s before the “with” or “from” issue), the amount of money that was spent on all the various schemes in place and the estimates of lost income for business along with the increase NHS waiting lists but unless we can set up a parallel universe where different actions were taken, then we cannot be able to say for sure.
It works for both sides so asking anyone to prove it is pointless in my opinion
However given the comparisons between very similar locations demographics wise with different restrictions, if there was a significant difference in outcomes due to said restrictions (as regularly claimed) it should be very obvious that excess deaths are lower. It isn't...... so... given that there should be reasonable proof that restrictions actually work to have justified them, well..... I'd say that onus of proof lies with implementation of those restrictions rather than not putting those restrictions in place.
The fact is that the proof will never exist in black and white either way.
Given all we are seeing now with NHS waiting lists, mental health issues and the monies spent combined with the lack of severity of the virus overall, then I would say that the cure was definitely worst than the cure.
Sargeant Orange said:
So a vaccination booking arrived through the door this morning for our 4 year old. Is this st still going on? I haven't heard anyone really mention covid since Putin went crazy.
Jabbing up healthy young kids who are of miniscule risk to covid. The mind boggles
When are they coming to drag the child to the the jabbing centre?t still going on? I haven't heard anyone really mention covid since Putin went crazy.Jabbing up healthy young kids who are of miniscule risk to covid. The mind boggles
Rollin said:
Sargeant Orange said:
So a vaccination booking arrived through the door this morning for our 4 year old. Is this st still going on? I haven't heard anyone really mention covid since Putin went crazy.
Jabbing up healthy young kids who are of miniscule risk to covid. The mind boggles
When are they coming to drag the child to the the jabbing centre?t still going on? I haven't heard anyone really mention covid since Putin went crazy.Jabbing up healthy young kids who are of miniscule risk to covid. The mind boggles
I take it we have moved on from CBBCs "100% safe and effective" mantra, in a specials kids interview with Devi Shridar?
johnboy1975 said:
Rollin said:
Sargeant Orange said:
So a vaccination booking arrived through the door this morning for our 4 year old. Is this st still going on? I haven't heard anyone really mention covid since Putin went crazy.
Jabbing up healthy young kids who are of miniscule risk to covid. The mind boggles
When are they coming to drag the child to the the jabbing centre?t still going on? I haven't heard anyone really mention covid since Putin went crazy.Jabbing up healthy young kids who are of miniscule risk to covid. The mind boggles
I take it we have moved on from CBBCs "100% safe and effective" mantra, in a specials kids interview with Devi Shridar?
Rollin said:
johnboy1975 said:
Rollin said:
Sargeant Orange said:
So a vaccination booking arrived through the door this morning for our 4 year old. Is this st still going on? I haven't heard anyone really mention covid since Putin went crazy.
Jabbing up healthy young kids who are of miniscule risk to covid. The mind boggles
When are they coming to drag the child to the the jabbing centre?t still going on? I haven't heard anyone really mention covid since Putin went crazy.Jabbing up healthy young kids who are of miniscule risk to covid. The mind boggles
I take it we have moved on from CBBCs "100% safe and effective" mantra, in a specials kids interview with Devi Shridar?
He can not take his kid. But millions of these leaflets are dropping through letterboxes, so it hardly solves the wider problem. Anything misleading in the leaflets clearly is a problem. Agreed?
Even some of the most evangelical pro vaccine posters on here don't think we should be jabbing kids.
Do you? (Yadda Yadda, freedom of choice, right?
)^^ I'd agree with that, providing the information provided is correct. Hence my (not unreasonable IMO) request.
Edit
Can be found here (pdf link on page)
https://www.healthforkids.co.uk/grownups/getting-h...
This nugget
Like all medicines, no vaccine
is completely effective – some
children may still get COVID-19
despite having a vaccination,
but this should be less severe.
Edited by johnboy1975 on Thursday 12th May 20:48
I had a quick look at the outcomes - purely covid deaths )however defined) and population. UK, USA, Brazil, South Africa, Germany, Italy, Spain, Russia and a few others all in the 0.27$ - 0.3% range.
A few outliers, France at 0.22% in Europe. Sweden around 0.16% then OZ and NZ at very low rates.
China and India also very low on this scale but I suspect that is mainly due to massive populations and much more dubious reporting.
So, totally cutting yourself off from the outside world works.
Everything else is nibbling at the edges.
A few outliers, France at 0.22% in Europe. Sweden around 0.16% then OZ and NZ at very low rates.
China and India also very low on this scale but I suspect that is mainly due to massive populations and much more dubious reporting.
So, totally cutting yourself off from the outside world works.
Everything else is nibbling at the edges.
Hepatitis in kids
Appreciate the anti vax source, but seems to be a well written summation of various official studies etc. From what little I knew of it I didn't think the vaccine was in any way responsible (kids too young to have been vaccinated) but now I'm not so sure. Possibility of vaccine transferring in breast milk and/ or vaccine shedding??
I'd appreciate the nay sayers giving it the once over. Rollin, you're up
https://expose-news.com/2022/05/12/whats-causing-d...
For balance, here's the BBC
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-61242471.amp
johnboy1975 said:
Hepatitis in kids
Appreciate the anti vax source, but seems to be a well written summation of various official studies etc. From what little I knew of it I didn't think the vaccine was in any way responsible (kids too young to have been vaccinated) but now I'm not so sure. Possibility of vaccine transferring in breast milk and/ or vaccine shedding??
I'd appreciate the nay sayers giving it the once over. Rollin, you're up
https://expose-news.com/2022/05/12/whats-causing-d...
For balance, here's the BBC
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-61242471.amp
Most but not all the hepatitis kids had had adenovirus....DE says 'adenovirus can't be the cause'Appreciate the anti vax source, but seems to be a well written summation of various official studies etc. From what little I knew of it I didn't think the vaccine was in any way responsible (kids too young to have been vaccinated) but now I'm not so sure. Possibility of vaccine transferring in breast milk and/ or vaccine shedding??
I'd appreciate the nay sayers giving it the once over. Rollin, you're up
https://expose-news.com/2022/05/12/whats-causing-d...
For balance, here's the BBC
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-61242471.amp
Some but not all the hepatitis kids had had covid...DE says 'covid can't be the cause"
A minority of the hepatitis kids may have been vaccinated....DE says 'vaccine MUST be the cause !!!'
The article is a joke.
It links to a Pfizer document and states Pfizer themselves say the vaccine causes hepatitis. I didn't read the entire Pfizer document, but a search for 'hepatitis ' gives no results.
Rollin said:
Most but not all the hepatitis kids had had adenovirus....DE says 'adenovirus can't be the cause'
Some but not all the hepatitis kids had had covid...DE says 'covid can't be the cause"
A minority of the hepatitis kids may have been vaccinated....DE says 'vaccine MUST be the cause !!!'
The article is a joke.
It links to a Pfizer document and states Pfizer themselves say the vaccine causes hepatitis. I didn't read the entire Pfizer document, but a search for 'hepatitis ' gives no results.
Blame the vaccine for everything because they can't blame the EU anymore. Some but not all the hepatitis kids had had covid...DE says 'covid can't be the cause"
A minority of the hepatitis kids may have been vaccinated....DE says 'vaccine MUST be the cause !!!'
The article is a joke.
It links to a Pfizer document and states Pfizer themselves say the vaccine causes hepatitis. I didn't read the entire Pfizer document, but a search for 'hepatitis ' gives no results.
Rollin said:
johnboy1975 said:
Hepatitis in kids
Appreciate the anti vax source, but seems to be a well written summation of various official studies etc. From what little I knew of it I didn't think the vaccine was in any way responsible (kids too young to have been vaccinated) but now I'm not so sure. Possibility of vaccine transferring in breast milk and/ or vaccine shedding??
I'd appreciate the nay sayers giving it the once over. Rollin, you're up
https://expose-news.com/2022/05/12/whats-causing-d...
For balance, here's the BBC
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-61242471.amp
Most but not all the hepatitis kids had had adenovirus....DE says 'adenovirus can't be the cause'Appreciate the anti vax source, but seems to be a well written summation of various official studies etc. From what little I knew of it I didn't think the vaccine was in any way responsible (kids too young to have been vaccinated) but now I'm not so sure. Possibility of vaccine transferring in breast milk and/ or vaccine shedding??
I'd appreciate the nay sayers giving it the once over. Rollin, you're up
https://expose-news.com/2022/05/12/whats-causing-d...
For balance, here's the BBC
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-61242471.amp
Some but not all the hepatitis kids had had covid...DE says 'covid can't be the cause"
A minority of the hepatitis kids may have been vaccinated....DE says 'vaccine MUST be the cause !!!'
The article is a joke.
It links to a Pfizer document and states Pfizer themselves say the vaccine causes hepatitis. I didn't read the entire Pfizer document, but a search for 'hepatitis ' gives no results.
said:
In Layman’s terms Pfizer are admitting in this document that it is possible to expose another human being to the mRNA Covid vaccine just by breathing the same air or touching the skin of the person who has been vaccinated
Does seem a bit of a stretch I agree.....we'd all be vaccinated by now......I find the adenovirus stuff interesting, although surely ruled out as women of a childbearing age wouldn't have had AZ/J&J.
I'll leave it as "you are probably right but I can't quite shake this nagging sense of unease at the whole rollout".
Main reason you are right is x billion jabs have been administered and we've got a few hundred cases. But something is up.....maybe lockdowns enter the frame - this thread has long been an advocate of causing harms by lack of built up immunity via enforced isolation. Or is that me trying to have my cake, and eat it??
Btw, How long did it take to link the pandemrix jab to narcolepsy??
Final addition, I was beginning to think Rufus was onto something and covid was causing these issues. But with only 20% having covid, it appears (thankfully) not
Thanks for the reply
Rufus Stone said:
Blame the vaccine for everything because they can't blame the EU anymore.
The EU are playing hardball. Whilst they shouldn't necessarily make it easy, it should at least be possible to come to some sort of arrangement?Unless you are saying we can never leave because NI?
(Wrong thread alert, but yes I do blame the EU for the current issues. So there
)Rufus Stone said:
Rollin said:
Most but not all the hepatitis kids had had adenovirus....DE says 'adenovirus can't be the cause'
Some but not all the hepatitis kids had had covid...DE says 'covid can't be the cause"
A minority of the hepatitis kids may have been vaccinated....DE says 'vaccine MUST be the cause !!!'
The article is a joke.
It links to a Pfizer document and states Pfizer themselves say the vaccine causes hepatitis. I didn't read the entire Pfizer document, but a search for 'hepatitis ' gives no results.
Blame the vaccine for everything because they can't blame the EU anymore. Some but not all the hepatitis kids had had covid...DE says 'covid can't be the cause"
A minority of the hepatitis kids may have been vaccinated....DE says 'vaccine MUST be the cause !!!'
The article is a joke.
It links to a Pfizer document and states Pfizer themselves say the vaccine causes hepatitis. I didn't read the entire Pfizer document, but a search for 'hepatitis ' gives no results.
https://twitter.com/sanchak74/status/1289757463789...
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