CV19 - Cure Worse Than The Disease? (Vol 18)

[21TonyK]

jameswills said:

There is no government policy on isolation and testing that I know of? If it’s LA then again im not aware of any government policy handed down to them currently and they are probably working out of their jurisdiction. I’d contact your local authority for clarification, it sounds to me as an outsider looking in with obvious ignorance to your day to day duties, that this policy is harming your work and your children.

Unless you work in the public sector its probably not logical but as a govenment employee you tend to follow government advice and guidance especially when its supported by your own specialists. I don't get to set policy I just have to work out how to operate within the restrictions and advise of the implications of doing so. It's up to senior management to decide if its acceptable.

But as I have said, this is not the thread for this discussion. I was hoping to get a gauge of how people are reacting to increasing case rates.

[jameswills]

21TonyK said:

Unless you work in the public sector its probably not logical but as a govenment employee you tend to follow government advice and guidance especially when its supported by your own specialists. I don't get to set policy I just have to work out how to operate within the restrictions and advise of the implications of doing so. It's up to senior management to decide if its acceptable.

But as I have said, this is not the thread for this discussion. I was hoping to get a gauge of how people are reacting to increasing case rates.

Totally appreciate that, understood.

And yes that thread I found interesting to follow, didn't think it needed to be merged at all. Different set of posters giving their view was more valuable to guage current feeling and perhaps understand how others are dealing with it, then and now. We can all get caught in our own echo chamber.

[saaby93]

Ashfordian said:

otolith said:

Had it earlier this year, was rough for a couple of weeks and not firing on all cylinders for a couple more. Was too busy to take any time off to rest, which probably didn't help. We have an outsourced project being executed in NZ, two of the key personnel got it a few months back and were quite ill. One of them is still not right, project has been severely impacted. He's a thin, fit, outdoorsy sort of bloke too, seems quite random who ends up on the long haul.

Not really. Those affected generally fall into 3 categories:

- The overweight/obese

- The fit/sporty people who do not rest while fighting the virus

- The clinically vulnerable/very old

Simply put, as long as you are not in the last category, if you look after your health and rest properly by listening to your body (including sleep) when you are fighting the virus, it is as worst a bad cold.

That may be true after you've been vaccinated.
Pre vaccine , people werent being put on ventilators aka Boris for fun

[grumbledoak]

Cure is literally worse than the disease - the absolute risk of serious adverse events is greater than the absolute risk reduction. From the Pfizer and Moderna trial data itself.



https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_i...
(preprint)

[anonymous-user]

21TonyK said:

I was hoping to get a gauge of how people are reacting to increasing case rates.

Tonker posted the below on Monday and it is why I have absolutely no interest or fear in rising cases. It’s no different to my feelings towards colds and flu every year.

anonymous said:

[redacted]

[anonymous-user]

saaby93 said:

Ashfordian said:

otolith said:

Had it earlier this year, was rough for a couple of weeks and not firing on all cylinders for a couple more. Was too busy to take any time off to rest, which probably didn't help. We have an outsourced project being executed in NZ, two of the key personnel got it a few months back and were quite ill. One of them is still not right, project has been severely impacted. He's a thin, fit, outdoorsy sort of bloke too, seems quite random who ends up on the long haul.

Not really. Those affected generally fall into 3 categories:

- The overweight/obese

- The fit/sporty people who do not rest while fighting the virus

- The clinically vulnerable/very old

Simply put, as long as you are not in the last category, if you look after your health and rest properly by listening to your body (including sleep) when you are fighting the virus, it is as worst a bad cold.

That may be true after you've been vaccinated.
Pre vaccine , people werent being put on ventilators aka Boris for fun

It’s nothing to do with vaccines (unless you really are in the last category, probably) and everything to do with the, as expected by many on here, more infectious but less virulent mutations we now have.

[Biker 1]

grumbledoak said:

Cure is literally worse than the disease - the absolute risk of serious adverse events is greater than the absolute risk reduction. From the Pfizer and Moderna trial data itself.



https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_i...
(preprint)

Why am I not surprised in the slightest?
I think many of us have been suggesting this for the last year & a half - I wonder what the graph will look like in, say, 10 years time?

[mko9]

saaby93 said:

Ashfordian said:

otolith said:

Had it earlier this year, was rough for a couple of weeks and not firing on all cylinders for a couple more. Was too busy to take any time off to rest, which probably didn't help. We have an outsourced project being executed in NZ, two of the key personnel got it a few months back and were quite ill. One of them is still not right, project has been severely impacted. He's a thin, fit, outdoorsy sort of bloke too, seems quite random who ends up on the long haul.

Not really. Those affected generally fall into 3 categories:

- The overweight/obese

- The fit/sporty people who do not rest while fighting the virus

- The clinically vulnerable/very old

Simply put, as long as you are not in the last category, if you look after your health and rest properly by listening to your body (including sleep) when you are fighting the virus, it is as worst a bad cold.

That may be true after you've been vaccinated.
Pre vaccine , people werent being put on ventilators aka Boris for fun

What you are saying may have been true if we were still dealing with Alpha or Delta, but we are not. We are now dealing with variants of Omicron, that the vaccines do little or nothing against.

[21TonyK]

garyhun said:

21TonyK said:

I was hoping to get a gauge of how people are reacting to increasing case rates.

Tonker posted the below on Monday and it is why I have absolutely no interest or fear in rising cases. It’s no different to my feelings towards colds and flu every year.

anonymous said:

[redacted]

JVT gave a very measured interview on R4 this morning basically saying we can expect the return of seasonal flu etc and that we should now be treating covid in the same way we do other respiratory diseases.

[RemarkLima]

21TonyK said:

scenario8 said:

RemarkLima said:

On top of this, there's no need to self-isolate even if you have covid, so why should the absences be worse than the usual colds and flu's going around?

Tony works at a school that offers services to children with special needs (I’m not sure if that’s an entirely accurate or technically correct description but hopefully he’ll forgive my hamfistedness) so I don’t doubt there are special measures in place.

You are quite right, "profound, multiple and complex needs" is the phrase. Basically all of our kids are at higher risk, some very much so to the point we opened a seperate site for 18 months with its own staff and clinical teams in complete isolation (both at work and privately), similar to some care homes.

My role is teaching and management of F&B (catering). In our provision, no F&B the school closes so if my teams are compromised we hit issues and yes we could use agency staff but they need enhanced DBS and clinical training first which takes time.

Hence my concern, but hey-ho, policy and commitee decisions, no-one is to blame.

It's an interesting one, I still have some contact with a care centre which I developed a system for, and they sound similar in so much as providing further education for people with profound needs.

They're under Southend social services oversight and their only staffing issues have been just the general people resource, so it does seem crazy that the policy is still a postcode lottery - add to that, flu's, norovirus, rotavirus, etc etc do not have the same treatment and policy right?

Would it be useful to point to other Local Authorities "doing in differently" to show that it can be done?

This comes back to the same with schools, so much service loss and absenteeism was driven by policy, not actually what is happening. It reminds me of F1 teams, saying they're sticking with slick tyres as the radar says it's not raining, but no one actually looks outside to see the downpour actually happening over their heads!

[vaud]

Just called my doctor's surgery. All telephone triage these days which I actually quite like - the doctor doesn't need to see me in person for this condition.

The automated message still says "obliged to wear a mask when visiting the surgery and doctor"

[Brave Fart]

21TonyK said:

<edit for brevity>
.......I was hoping to get a gauge of how people are reacting to increasing case rates.

Well, since you ask, I'm not bothered by it in the slightest. Just as I've never been bothered about outbreaks of 'flu, or Norovirus or whatever. In my opinion none of the imposed NPI's made much difference to the spread of covid or its impact. Vaccines, yes, but masks, 2 metre distancing, limited funerals and all the other nonsense........nah.

I regard the spread of highly infectious viruses as inevitable and nearly impossible to stop. Therefore we might as well just crack on with normal life, just like we did before covid.

[CAH706]

Brave Fart said:

21TonyK said:

<edit for brevity>
.......I was hoping to get a gauge of how people are reacting to increasing case rates.

Well, since you ask, I'm not bothered by it in the slightest. Just as I've never been bothered about outbreaks of 'flu, or Norovirus or whatever. In my opinion none of the imposed NPI's made much difference to the spread of covid or its impact. Vaccines, yes, but masks, 2 metre distancing, limited funerals and all the other nonsense........nah.

I regard the spread of highly infectious viruses as inevitable and nearly impossible to stop. Therefore we might as well just crack on with normal life, just like we did before covid.

Agree with this

We will again follow South Africa who had a recent spike - nowhere near as big or severe as the first Omicron wave

It’s a great time to get another spike in cases - summertime with little else causing issues. Should set us up nicely with extra protection for winter.

Each outbreak will be less severe and the more kids that get it the better.

Covid is done apart from the economic impact that everywhere is feeling

[CarCrazyDad]

Biker 1 said:

grumbledoak said:

Cure is literally worse than the disease - the absolute risk of serious adverse events is greater than the absolute risk reduction. From the Pfizer and Moderna trial data itself.



https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_i...
(preprint)

Why am I not surprised in the slightest?
I think many of us have been suggesting this for the last year & a half - I wonder what the graph will look like in, say, 10 years time?

Just shut up

Take the vaccine

Save my granny!!!!


(am I doing it right)

[V1nce Fox]

garyhun said:

21TonyK said:

I was hoping to get a gauge of how people are reacting to increasing case rates.

Tonker posted the below on Monday and it is why I have absolutely no interest or fear in rising cases. It’s no different to my feelings towards colds and flu every year.

anonymous said:

[redacted]

[Boringvolvodriver]

CAH706 said:

Agree with this

We will again follow South Africa who had a recent spike - nowhere near as big or severe as the first Omicron wave

It’s a great time to get another spike in cases - summertime with little else causing issues. Should set us up nicely with extra protection for winter.

Each outbreak will be less severe and the more kids that get it the better.

Covid is done apart from the economic impact that everywhere is feeling

Although when the spike in SA started, they appeared to panic a bit and kept the requirement to wear a mask indoors and on public transport, restrictions on gathering numbers (1000) and tests for unvaccinated entering the country.

They have now seen that the 5th wave was nothing like previous ones and have, for now anyway, rescinded all the restrictions mentioned above.

[21TonyK]

V1nce Fox said:

How is your school implementing the current guidance on isolation (for staff)?

[Harrison Bergeron]

Ntv said:

Well put

Oh and I recall "Build Back Better"

But I don't recall "Expect the largest fall in living standards since WW2, impacting health and longevity (costing many more days of life that we're saving!)"

Nah. That’s Putin’s fault. Nothing to see here.



otolith how many marathons did the kiwi run?

[scenario8]

Is your boy alright, tonker?

[V1nce Fox]

21TonyK said:

How is your school implementing the current guidance on isolation (for staff)?

Can’t remember exactly. I had it at the start of April and they told me to stay home for 5 days then 2 neg tests on day 5 to come back.