CV19 - Cure Worse Than The Disease? (Vol 18)
Discussion
Karl Sikora on "The week in 60 minutes". Around the 43 mark:
"Can the RNA insert itself in some way in the normal cells....is there a cancer risk 30 years down the line....the doommongers say "perhaps", the more positive people say "well it's a risk but we have to learn to live with it""
???
No chance the "positive people" are saying there's a cancer risk. Or at least, I don't remember it in the numerous briefings
How likely is this risk? We've seen upticks in cancer, I've always been relatively happy to put them down to the s
tshow that is the current/past 2 years cancer screening rates.
I guess the truth is "we just don't know". Madness to roll it out to kids (IMO). We could be talking about the cure being worse than the disease in relation to the vaccine (which several have mistook this thread for) rather than lockdowns
"Can the RNA insert itself in some way in the normal cells....is there a cancer risk 30 years down the line....the doommongers say "perhaps", the more positive people say "well it's a risk but we have to learn to live with it""
???
No chance the "positive people" are saying there's a cancer risk. Or at least, I don't remember it in the numerous briefings
How likely is this risk? We've seen upticks in cancer, I've always been relatively happy to put them down to the s
tshow that is the current/past 2 years cancer screening rates.I guess the truth is "we just don't know". Madness to roll it out to kids (IMO). We could be talking about the cure being worse than the disease in relation to the vaccine (which several have mistook this thread for) rather than lockdowns
tannhauser said:
BabySharkDooDooDooDooDooDoo said:
roger.mellie said:
Nobody has been jabbed into oblivion.
The family of those who have died or suffered severe illness from the vaccines would disagree.Obviously you’re not a pair who’d put artificial efficacy expectations on the vaccine so elaborate whenever you want.
@isaldiri I agree and disagree. There’s pretty good justification for if knowing you have covid avoiding situations where you could be the spreader. I’d not say the same if I had the flu or the cold. Yes I know that’s true with any respiratory virus, but most of the others aren’t so lethal to some. If a particularly bad flu strain came along I’d think similar rather than say nothing to see here. Covid has passed the point of needing extreme measures but that relies on people not being self serving idiots to keep it that way.
Genuine question, do we have ONS birth data, or data from other countries?
This is German data. As one of the following up tweets says, this is is a 9 standard deviation drop. 2 or 3 SD is unusual. 9 is a unicorn event.
Probably pesky climate change again
(Although the "children of man scenario" comment is definitely hyperbole)
https://twitter.com/Jikkyleaks/status/154091438334...
Regarding the last sentence, cost of living crisis could cause birth rates to lower as people decide they can't afford to raise a family at this point. I dont think it would have particularly fed into the data shown though?
This is German data. As one of the following up tweets says, this is is a 9 standard deviation drop. 2 or 3 SD is unusual. 9 is a unicorn event.
Probably pesky climate change again
(Although the "children of man scenario" comment is definitely hyperbole)
https://twitter.com/Jikkyleaks/status/154091438334...
said:
This is a massive safety signal for infertility. Germany's FIRST report of birth rates since the rollout.
Remember that the birth rate data is 9 months too late.
If the next quarter is worse, this is Children of Men scenario
Remember that the birth rate data is 9 months too late.
If the next quarter is worse, this is Children of Men scenario
Regarding the last sentence, cost of living crisis could cause birth rates to lower as people decide they can't afford to raise a family at this point. I dont think it would have particularly fed into the data shown though?
Edited by johnboy1975 on Monday 27th June 05:48
Rollin said:
Yup, the vaccines are causing cancer and infertility....all before breakfast on the 'definitely not antivax' thread.
Where's the German birthrate data?
In that twitter link.Where's the German birthrate data?
(Edit)Official page here:
https://www-genesis.destatis.de/genesis/online?ope...
I took the liberty of copying a couple of the graphs.
Is the data wrong? I've took it as read as it's too easy to disprove and make the author look like an antivax t
t 
Hence my (genuine) ask for other countries birth data. It was early and I'll do some digging myself
Could be correlation not causation.....perhaps the end of a pandemic isn't the best time to bring a child into the world? (I'd say during the middle was worse, and 2021 holds up remarkably well against the average).
Edit. There's some UKHSA data further into the tweet. Jan and Feb 2022 look to be well down on the corresponding months for 2021. But you'd need to see a wider trend (and more historical data) before jumping to conclusions. I include it as supporting evidence for the German data
I had a Google myself, I couldn't find anything. Didn't think to check the vaccine surveillance report (week 24)
Edited by johnboy1975 on Monday 27th June 07:40
Edited by johnboy1975 on Monday 27th June 07:44
Hang on, I thought covid was causing more myocarditis than the vaccine? But 2020 draws a blank? 
(Add that to the cancer and the infertility, Rollin
)
https://dailytelegraph.co.nz/news/silent-no-more-t...
(Looks to be an antivax site masquerading as a newspaper. But it could be a "proper" NZ newspaper, not sure...In any case, debate the stats, not the source. Unless the source is using made up figures, in which case feel free...)
(Add that to the cancer and the infertility, Rollin
)https://dailytelegraph.co.nz/news/silent-no-more-t...
(Looks to be an antivax site masquerading as a newspaper. But it could be a "proper" NZ newspaper, not sure...In any case, debate the stats, not the source. Unless the source is using made up figures, in which case feel free...)
johnboy1975 said:
Genuine question, do we have ONS birth data, or data from other countries?
This is German data. As one of the following up tweets says, this is is a 9 standard deviation drop. 2 or 3 SD is unusual. 9 is a unicorn event.
Another one here for Taiwan -This is German data. As one of the following up tweets says, this is is a 9 standard deviation drop. 2 or 3 SD is unusual. 9 is a unicorn event.
Article with links to the Taiwanese government data he says he took it from -
https://igorchudov.substack.com/p/depopulation-of-...
Obviously don't blindly accept anything, but while the authorities can mess with vaccinated / unvaccinated definitions to play stats games, a drop in birth rates of this size is going to be impossible to conceal.
roger.mellie said:
Eh?
Obviously you’re not a pair who’d put artificial efficacy expectations on the vaccine so elaborate whenever you want.
@isaldiri I agree and disagree. There’s pretty good justification for if knowing you have covid avoiding situations where you could be the spreader. I’d not say the same if I had the flu or the cold. Yes I know that’s true with any respiratory virus, but most of the others aren’t so lethal to some. If a particularly bad flu strain came along I’d think similar rather than say nothing to see here. Covid has passed the point of needing extreme measures but that relies on people not being self serving idiots to keep it that way.
Although for some very vulnerable people, flu can be a killer and in extreme cases so can a cold.Obviously you’re not a pair who’d put artificial efficacy expectations on the vaccine so elaborate whenever you want.
@isaldiri I agree and disagree. There’s pretty good justification for if knowing you have covid avoiding situations where you could be the spreader. I’d not say the same if I had the flu or the cold. Yes I know that’s true with any respiratory virus, but most of the others aren’t so lethal to some. If a particularly bad flu strain came along I’d think similar rather than say nothing to see here. Covid has passed the point of needing extreme measures but that relies on people not being self serving idiots to keep it that way.
Apart from doing a test, how would one know that those cold like symptoms are covid or a cold?
vaud said:
I’d suggest the lockdowns and uncertainty probably/may have contributed towards people delaying having children, rather than an underlying fertility issue.
Possibly. Although births were up in 2021 (UK) - with more uncertainty than now (IMO) - and which bucks a long declining trend. Fair to say "lockdown babies"?And as I said, I don't think the cost of living crisis existed 9 months ago? BoE were describing inflation as transitory, and it was about 4% IIRC
I don't think it's a slam dunk for the vaccines being the cause. But they are a definite possibility. There's quite a bit more data from other countries in that twitter thread. Of course, by and large the whole world has seen similar responses over the past 2 years, so any spurious correlation would be expected to be repeated elsewhere.
Interestingly, NZ figures are holding up Vs the average (data to be found somewhere within that thread). Their vaccination drive was behind other countries (as they didn't see the urgency, being "covid free". They went from 20% (mainly the elderly) to 90% (most adults) in a short space about 9 months ago. So if it was the vaccine, this wouldn't show up (yet)
roger.mellie said:
@isaldiri I agree and disagree. There’s pretty good justification for if knowing you have covid avoiding situations where you could be the spreader. I’d not say the same if I had the flu or the cold. Yes I know that’s true with any respiratory virus, but most of the others aren’t so lethal to some. If a particularly bad flu strain came along I’d think similar rather than say nothing to see here. Covid has passed the point of needing extreme measures but that relies on people not being self serving idiots to keep it that way.
You keep on repeating this as if it were incontrovertible fact and yet as I have repeatedly pointed out, covid has been running at very high infection rates (and higher than flu in some of the 'bad' winters of a few years previous) with no visible impact on excess deaths. why would covid now so much more lethal than most other respiratory viruses as you keep on insisting?isaldiri said:
roger.mellie said:
@isaldiri I agree and disagree. There’s pretty good justification for if knowing you have covid avoiding situations where you could be the spreader. I’d not say the same if I had the flu or the cold. Yes I know that’s true with any respiratory virus, but most of the others aren’t so lethal to some. If a particularly bad flu strain came along I’d think similar rather than say nothing to see here. Covid has passed the point of needing extreme measures but that relies on people not being self serving idiots to keep it that way.
You keep on repeating this as if it were incontrovertible fact and yet as I have repeatedly pointed out, covid has been running at very high infection rates (and higher than flu in some of the 'bad' winters of a few years previous) with no visible impact on excess deaths. why would covid now so much more lethal than most other respiratory viruses as you keep on insisting?johnboy1975 said:
Hang on, I thought covid was causing more myocarditis than the vaccine? But 2020 draws a blank?
(Add that to the cancer and the infertility, Rollin )
https://dailytelegraph.co.nz/news/silent-no-more-t...
(Looks to be an antivax site masquerading as a newspaper. But it could be a "proper" NZ newspaper, not sure...In any case, debate the stats, not the source. Unless the source is using made up figures, in which case feel free...)
You may be correct.(Add that to the cancer and the infertility, Rollin
)https://dailytelegraph.co.nz/news/silent-no-more-t...
(Looks to be an antivax site masquerading as a newspaper. But it could be a "proper" NZ newspaper, not sure...In any case, debate the stats, not the source. Unless the source is using made up figures, in which case feel free...)
"dailytelegraph.co.nz was launched in October 2021."
"Our international news is syndicated from RT News, Sputnik News and teleSUR."
https://dailytelegraph.co.nz/about/
johnboy1975 said:
Possibly. Although births were up in 2021 (UK) - with more uncertainty than now (IMO) - and which bucks a long declining trend. Fair to say "lockdown babies"?
https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20210419-how-...grumbledoak said:
Another one here for Taiwan -
Article with links to the Taiwanese government data he says he took it from -
https://igorchudov.substack.com/p/depopulation-of-...
Obviously don't blindly accept anything, but while the authorities can mess with vaccinated / unvaccinated definitions to play stats games, a drop in birth rates of this size is going to be impossible to conceal.
(In before Rollin) He's extrapolated May's data and applied the drop to the rest of 2022 (Vs 2021) which is slightly unfair. I'm guessing 2022 isn't down 23% overall? I'd rather play with past averages on the data we do have. However if the signal is from the vaccine, it's unlikely to improve. So time will tell. Article with links to the Taiwanese government data he says he took it from -
https://igorchudov.substack.com/p/depopulation-of-...
Obviously don't blindly accept anything, but while the authorities can mess with vaccinated / unvaccinated definitions to play stats games, a drop in birth rates of this size is going to be impossible to conceal.
Actually - if it is the vaccine, and it's "just" making it harder to get pregnant, people will just try for longer, so would we see a blip before recovery? I think (ie 6 months of trying instead of 3, or whatever - there will be a missing 3 months). Optimistic view?
He gets a 26 sigma event. 8 sigma (Germany was 9) is a once in 803 trillion day event (occuring randomly)
johnboy1975 said:
(In before Rollin) He's extrapolated May's data and applied the drop to the rest of 2022 (Vs 2021) which is slightly unfair. I'm guessing 2022 isn't down 23% overall? I'd rather play with past averages on the data we do have. However if the signal is from the vaccine, it's unlikely to improve. So time will tell.
Yes, a simple May vs May comparison would have been fairer, but if you ain't got that data this is the best you can do.We are in complete agreement that time will tell. Month by month and country by country.
vaud said:
johnboy1975 said:
Possibly. Although births were up in 2021 (UK) - with more uncertainty than now (IMO) - and which bucks a long declining trend. Fair to say "lockdown babies"?
https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20210419-how-...Sorry for the DM link. I did find the source earlier but have misplaced it. Official figures are nonetheless included. I didn't realise the decline was so rapid over the last 10 years
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10639193/...
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