CV19 - Cure Worse Than The Disease? (Vol 18)

[Roderick Spode]

No biggie. Miracle jabs working well as anticipated. I'm sure our resident jab enthusiasts will be able to completely refute this.

Nature Study said:

Abstract

Cases of myocarditis and pericarditis have been reported following the receipt of Covid-19 mRNA vaccines. As vaccination campaigns are still to be extended, we aimed to provide a comprehensive assessment of the association, by vaccine and across sex and age groups. Using nationwide hospital discharge and vaccine data, we analysed all 1612 cases of myocarditis and 1613 cases of pericarditis that occurred in France in the period from May 12, 2021 to October 31, 2021. We perform matched case-control studies and find increased risks of myocarditis and pericarditis during the first week following vaccination, and particularly after the second dose, with adjusted odds ratios of myocarditis of 8.1 (95% confidence interval [CI], 6.7 to 9.9) for the BNT162b2 and 30 (95% CI, 21 to 43) for the mRNA-1273 vaccine. The largest associations are observed for myocarditis following mRNA-1273 vaccination in persons aged 18 to 24 years. Estimates of excess cases attributable to vaccination also reveal a substantial burden of both myocarditis and pericarditis across other age groups and in both males and females.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-022-31401-5

[Brave Fart]

cliffe_mafia said:

I'd like to see an explanation of how we ignored what we knew previously about existing coronaviruses (totally ignoring natural immunity, general health, obesity, etc) and ripped up the existing pandemic preparedness manual.

Also how did Imperial and Neil Ferguson get the data "modelling" job after so much epic failures with previous outbreaks.

I suppose your first point might be covered under 1 a) i) "preparedness and resilience" and 1 b) i) "health sector preparedness".
And the second might be covered under 1 a) v) "use of data, research and expert evidence"

I can't see any direct refence to what I call Project Fear. The government, via its Behavioural Insights Team and SAGE SPI-B, mounted a campaign of fear against its own citizens. Mountains of our cash were spent on adverts, posters and much else, all designed to scare us into compliance. And, frankly, it worked. Some people were, and a few still are, too frightened to even leave their home. Some folk sprayed their groceries with antiseptic, or crossed the road to avoid others.

Knowing that you can scare your own citizens into compliance is a very valuable lesson for governments everywhere. It appears that they don't want an Inquiry (not 'Enquiry', note) to examine this.

[Elysium]

jameswills said:

Elysium said:

1 in 3 refers to Case Fatality Rates. Which is the chance of a person dying if they are recorded as an infected 'case'.

This is for England and Wales from around 14 months ago, before vaccine benefits began to show. At that point we had recorded around 230k cases in those aged 80+ with 83k deaths. So a Case Fatality Rate of around 36%:



These numbers will have been exaggerated by the very low levels of case detection in the first wave, when we were only testing sick people presenting to hospital. However, they are the numbers we have.

Post vaccination this fell by 80-90%. So the CFR for a vaccinated person in that age group would be more like 3.6%. Still many hundred times higher than the CFR for a healthy unvaccinated 20 year old.

Ok thanks, understood. These people were still dying though, the vaccines did not improve overall mortality, excess deaths were still as high in 2021 and are on course to be as high again in 2022, but for the younger cohort. As per the graph above, people are just simply dying, the vaccines don’t seem to have done anything at all at best.

I don't think that is entirely correct as excess deaths have progressively fallen with each wave.

However, I would agree that, to some extent at least, Vaccines have saved the elderly and infirm from COVID, so that they are free to die of something else instead.

I think it is also true that our response to COVID has increased overall mortality and that, sadly, we have probably substituted elderly deaths from COVID with younger deaths from undiagnosed cancers etc.

It is a tragedy, particularly as it was all so predictable:

[Rollin]

Roderick Spode said:

No biggie. Miracle jabs working well as anticipated. I'm sure our resident jab enthusiasts will be able to completely refute this.

Nature Study said:

Abstract

Cases of myocarditis and pericarditis have been reported following the receipt of Covid-19 mRNA vaccines. As vaccination campaigns are still to be extended, we aimed to provide a comprehensive assessment of the association, by vaccine and across sex and age groups. Using nationwide hospital discharge and vaccine data, we analysed all 1612 cases of myocarditis and 1613 cases of pericarditis that occurred in France in the period from May 12, 2021 to October 31, 2021. We perform matched case-control studies and find increased risks of myocarditis and pericarditis during the first week following vaccination, and particularly after the second dose, with adjusted odds ratios of myocarditis of 8.1 (95% confidence interval [CI], 6.7 to 9.9) for the BNT162b2 and 30 (95% CI, 21 to 43) for the mRNA-1273 vaccine. The largest associations are observed for myocarditis following mRNA-1273 vaccination in persons aged 18 to 24 years. Estimates of excess cases attributable to vaccination also reveal a substantial burden of both myocarditis and pericarditis across other age groups and in both males and females.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-022-31401-5

Some vaccinations cause rare side effects.Why would anyone want to refute that?

See what the British Biased Heart Foundation has to say about it.

https://www.bhf.org.uk/informationsupport/heart-ma...

Probably just a bunch of shills for big pharma though, so best if you ignored them.

[jameswills]

Rollin said:

Some vaccinations cause rare side effects.Why would anyone want to refute that?

See what the British Biased Heart Foundation has to say about it.

https://www.bhf.org.uk/informationsupport/heart-ma...

Probably just a bunch of shills for big pharma though, so best if you ignored them.

So 29 cases per million second doses for Pfizer, 70 cases per million second doses of Moderna, for 18 to 29 year olds. That’s a risk factor of 1 in 35000 and 1 in 14000 for Moderna.

Risk factor (if you believe the nonsense on the QCovid NHS developed platform for Covid risk assessment) for a 24 year old unvaccinated to catch Covid and go to hospital is apparently 1 in 12000, to die is 1 in a million. So for a Moderna shot it’s basically a coin toss on whether you think it’s worth the risk of heart issues to keep you out of hospital, where you’ll very very likely to recover.

If you believe the stats on either side that is.

Still not buying this vaccine is safe and effective line, if you’re under 70 and healthy.

[Carl_Manchester]

grumbledoak said:

Carl_Manchester said:

It was posted in this thread months ago that the version 2 of the AZ Vaccine has fixed the problems with the original vaccine. I posted the whitepaper on the research that was done to isolate the problem fix it.

I missed that, and Google isn't helping. Can you link it again please?

Sure, the paper is here: https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.abl8213

The announcement was here: https://www.cardiff.ac.uk/news/view/2589446-scient...

Where i got it from originally, was here: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/12/02/scient...

[Roderick Spode]

Rollin said:

Some vaccinations cause rare side effects.Why would anyone want to refute that?

Nature Study said:

We perform matched case-control studies and find increased risks of myocarditis and pericarditis during the first week following vaccination, and particularly after the second dose, with adjusted odds ratios of myocarditis of 8.1 (95% confidence interval [CI], 6.7 to 9.9) for the BNT162b2 and 30 (95% CI, 21 to 43) for the mRNA-1273 vaccine.

Doesn't seem terribly rare to me.

Rollin said:

See what the British Biased Heart Foundation has to say about it.

https://www.bhf.org.uk/informationsupport/heart-ma...

Probably just a bunch of shills for big pharma though, so best if you ignored them.

BHF said:

Serious cases of myocarditis after the vaccine so far have been exceptionally rare...

What are the source of their figures? The under reported Yellow Card system?

BHF said:

...although more research is being carried out in to the long-term effects.

That's most reassuring. Time for another round of boosters for the kiddiewinks. No biggie.

[isaldiri]

Carl_Manchester said:

Sure, the paper is here: https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.abl8213

The announcement was here: https://www.cardiff.ac.uk/news/view/2589446-scient...

Where i got it from originally, was here: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/12/02/scient...

The main scientific article merely points out what they believe was causing the issue. ie the adenovirus vector itself.

There is nothing that states per your earlier post that 'version 2 of the AZ Vaccine has fixed the problems with the original vaccine'.....

[anonymous-user]

isaldiri said:

Carl_Manchester said:

Sure, the paper is here: https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.abl8213

The announcement was here: https://www.cardiff.ac.uk/news/view/2589446-scient...

Where i got it from originally, was here: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/12/02/scient...

The main scientific article merely points out what they believe was causing the issue. ie the adenovirus vector itself.

There is nothing that states per your earlier post that 'version 2 of the AZ Vaccine has fixed the problems with the original vaccine'.....

You can’t defeat faith with facts, isaldiri.

[grumbledoak]

Carl_Manchester said:

Sure, the paper is here: https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.abl8213

The announcement was here: https://www.cardiff.ac.uk/news/view/2589446-scient...

Where i got it from originally, was here: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/12/02/scient...

Thanks!

[bodhi]

Considering manufacturing of the AZ Vaccine in the UK was wound down mid-last year, and is showing no signs of being restarted, I'm not sure I'd be getting my hopes up on being injected with a new version anytime soon sadly.

[Rufus Stone]

bodhi said:

Considering manufacturing of the AZ Vaccine in the UK was wound down mid-last year, and is showing no signs of being restarted, I'm not sure I'd be getting my hopes up on being injected with a new version anytime soon sadly.

Not sure it really matters now. It appears that barring a significant mutation, if you were going to die from covid you probably would have by now.

[Biggus thingus]

Carl_Manchester said:

I think we will end up with Moderna v2 booster and the AZ v2 Booster for winter, i can't see me choosing the pfizer one again.

Why not just give it up, stop with the pretense and just get on with life?

[tannhauser]

bodhi said:

Considering manufacturing of the AZ Vaccine in the UK was wound down mid-last year, and is showing no signs of being restarted, I'm not sure I'd be getting my hopes up on being injected with a new version anytime soon sadly.

Opium for the masses

[Boringvolvodriver]

tannhauser said:

bodhi said:

Considering manufacturing of the AZ Vaccine in the UK was wound down mid-last year, and is showing no signs of being restarted, I'm not sure I'd be getting my hopes up on being injected with a new version anytime soon sadly.

Opium for the masses

As Muse say

“ Compliance
We just need your compliance
You will feel no pain anymore
And no more defiance
We just need your compliance
Just give us your compliance
We won't let you feel lost anymore
No more self-reliance”

[johnboy1975]

Rufus Stone said:

Not sure it really matters now. It appears that barring a significant mutation, if you were going to die from covid you probably would have by now.

Assuming a prior infection of course. And worth mentioning the vast majority were never likely to die from it in the first place.

[Carl_Manchester]

Biggus thingus said:

Carl_Manchester said:

I think we will end up with Moderna v2 booster and the AZ v2 Booster for winter, i can't see me choosing the pfizer one again.

Why not just give it up, stop with the pretense and just get on with life?

I suppose the answer is, I am trying to get on with life but i have never been sick in late June and will be doing my best to avoid getting poorly for the World Cup in late november and same time next year.

[Boringvolvodriver]

Carl_Manchester said:

I suppose the answer is, I am trying to get on with life but i have never been sick in late June and will be doing my best to avoid getting poorly for the World Cup in late november and same time next year.

Although having the vaccine hasn’t stopped you catching covid has it? Would you have been worse without it- who knows

[J210]

Scores of Glastonbury revellers test positive for COVID as experts warn of fifth wave !!!

https://news.sky.com/story/scores-of-glastonbury-r...


I assume we should all be panicking as Zoe app says it’s really bad again and we all need more masks and more jabs !

He must be after more funding

[Boringvolvodriver]

J210 said:

Scores of Glastonbury revellers test positive for COVID as experts warn of fifth wave !!!

https://news.sky.com/story/scores-of-glastonbury-r...


I assume we should all be panicking as Zoe app says it’s really bad again and we all need more masks and more jabs !

He must be after more funding

Well the fifth wave in South Africa was so bad that they rescinded restrictions

https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/safrica-repea...

But of course we don’t listen to South Africa……….well we didn’t with Omicron anyway