Russia invades Ukraine. Volume 2

Russia invades Ukraine. Volume 2

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Discussion

SlimJim16v

5,660 posts

143 months

Wednesday 25th May 2022
quotequote all
GT03ROB said:
Anyhow we should leave this here as its not relevant to Ukraine, other than Russia’s invasion is also nothing to do with oil/gas.

Hugo Stiglitz

37,129 posts

211 months

Wednesday 25th May 2022
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Olivera said:
https://energybulletin.org/peak-oil-reference/peak...

2003 oil production, in million barrels per day:

United States 5.68
Iraq 1.31
Total, OPEC plus top 30 non-OPEC 72.66

Anyone who thinks Iraq was primarily about oil needs to lay down the crack pipe. The primary motivation was always neoconservative 'regime change' ideology.
No. It was about keeping the private defence industry in constant bumper paydays.

Defence companies love war.

FourWheelDrift

Original Poster:

88,522 posts

284 months

Wednesday 25th May 2022
quotequote all
faa77 said:
Surely daily production has nothing to do with reserves?
Iraq's oil reserves are the 5th biggest in the world (after Venezuela, Saudi Arabia, Canada and Iran) and more than double that of the USA.


sisu

2,580 posts

173 months

Wednesday 25th May 2022
quotequote all
vonuber said:
For some reason it seems like the anti-German sentiment is higher than anti-Russian on here.
Especially considering Germany is doing no different to a lot of other countries, and a lot more than say France is, especially given Macron's attempts to sell Ukraine down the river.
Look Germany has alot of baggage, I am not defending their poor effort but I can understand why its not simply a gut move on their part. Its like a Royal visit to the Caribbean

On a brighter note Lithuanian Andrius Tapinas is crowd funding to buy Ukraine a €5 mil Bayraktar drone. If you would like to help just search #bayraktarasUkrainai

rxe

6,700 posts

103 months

Wednesday 25th May 2022
quotequote all
Interesting thread here:

https://twitter.com/PhillipsPOBrien/status/1505563...

The TL:DR version is that logistics wins wars, and the ability to degrade the opponents ability to produce weapons is probably the most important factor - destroying irreplaceable kit is more important than winning battles.

If you follow this line of thinking, then the sanctions that are crippling Russia's production capability are probably the most important aspect. Closely followed by the airbridge that seems to be linking the US and Poland at the moment.

I've ordered his book for holiday reading.



Wozy68

5,390 posts

170 months

Wednesday 25th May 2022
quotequote all
8bit said:
fblm said:
8bit said:
You're not wrong on the "wrong score" but the intention was purely about getting control of Iraq's oil, wasn't it?
Spend $1100bn to secure the supply of $40bn/year in oil that the US doesn't even need? scratchchin
And yet, there they all are - https://edition.cnn.com/2013/03/19/opinion/iraq-wa...

CNN Article said:
"Of course it's about oil; we can't really deny that," said Gen. John Abizaid, former head of U.S. Central Command and Military Operations in Iraq, in 2007. Former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan agreed, writing in his memoir, "I am saddened that it is politically inconvenient to acknowledge what everyone knows: the Iraq war is largely about oil." Then-Sen. and now Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel said the same in 2007: "People say we're not fighting for oil. Of course we are."
I actually think it was about oil …. But not oil Per Se … More that Iraq wanted to sell oil in Euros rather than dollars and there was no way the Americans would have accepted that.

pingu393

7,798 posts

205 months

Wednesday 25th May 2022
quotequote all
Hugo Stiglitz said:
Olivera said:
https://energybulletin.org/peak-oil-reference/peak...

2003 oil production, in million barrels per day:

United States 5.68
Iraq 1.31
Total, OPEC plus top 30 non-OPEC 72.66

Anyone who thinks Iraq was primarily about oil needs to lay down the crack pipe. The primary motivation was always neoconservative 'regime change' ideology.
No. It was about keeping the private defence industry in constant bumper paydays.

Defence companies love war.


One word...

Halliburton

faa77

1,728 posts

71 months

Wednesday 25th May 2022
quotequote all
FourWheelDrift said:
faa77 said:
Surely daily production has nothing to do with reserves?
Iraq's oil reserves are the 5th biggest in the world (after Venezuela, Saudi Arabia, Canada and Iran) and more than double that of the USA.
That's my point

anonymous-user

54 months

Wednesday 25th May 2022
quotequote all
rovermorris999 said:
There's been a lot of discussion about how the state of the Russian nuclear forces. Not too bad perhaps. According to this article, they've been upgrading heavily for the last few years (assuming the money has been spend as intended)...
The number of them that work is a rather moot point but personally I'd expect even more of the money to have been stolen from a program that is shrouded in secrecy and which, should it ever be used in anger and most of it not work, it won't matter!

SlimJim16v

5,660 posts

143 months

Wednesday 25th May 2022
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Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

PRTVR

7,105 posts

221 months

Thursday 26th May 2022
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The Russians are moving old T62 tanks up to the battle.
The comments are interesting, it requires a 4 man crew, the crew conditions are terrible and in previous battles it was a death trap.

BikeBikeBIke

8,000 posts

115 months

Thursday 26th May 2022
quotequote all
PRTVR said:
The Russians are moving old T62 tanks up to the battle.
The comments are interesting, it requires a 4 man crew, the crew conditions are terrible and in previous battles it was a death trap.
Lots of comment on twitter, for those who aren't on twitter:

- Might indicate lack of electronics for the targeting optics (FWOABW) on the newer tanks dues to sanctions.

- Might indicate lack or tooling capability for the newer tanks. (Import banned under 2014 sanctions.)

- Parts and ammo are totally different to all the other tanks which gives them a logistics nightmare.

BrettMRC

4,091 posts

160 months

Thursday 26th May 2022
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I don't think the old T62 is a paragon of reliability either, so chances are you'll be stuck in a broken down death trap...

Whoozit

3,601 posts

269 months

Thursday 26th May 2022
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MOTORVATOR said:
Bearing in mind Germany's reunification happened at the same time as Ukraine was afforded their freedom from Soviet rule they have managed yet again to display a total lack of sentience. Germany 'should' have been one of the most vocal and vociferous in defending Ukraines sovereignty.
That's an excellent point. Thank you for making it.

FiF

44,082 posts

251 months

Thursday 26th May 2022
quotequote all
rxe said:
Interesting thread here:

https://twitter.com/PhillipsPOBrien/status/1505563...

The TL:DR version is that logistics wins wars, and the ability to degrade the opponents ability to produce weapons is probably the most important factor - destroying irreplaceable kit is more important than winning battles.

If you follow this line of thinking, then the sanctions that are crippling Russia's production capability are probably the most important aspect. Closely followed by the airbridge that seems to be linking the US and Poland at the moment.

I've ordered his book for holiday reading.
Listen to We Have Ways of Making You Talk Podcast, episodes 162 and 163, Where the War was Won, Parts 1 and 2.

Edited to add some interesting links to other works including publicly available essays in that Twitter thread.

Edited by FiF on Thursday 26th May 08:23

Oilchange

8,462 posts

260 months

Thursday 26th May 2022
quotequote all
More cannon fodder. Perhaps designed to deplete the expensive anti tank weaponry?
Putin doesn't care if it's a Pyrrhic victory, as long as it's a victory...

We shall see though...

BikeBikeBIke

8,000 posts

115 months

Thursday 26th May 2022
quotequote all
Oilchange said:
Putin doesn't care if it's a Pyrrhic victory, as long as it's a victory...
Well, yeah, most likely Putin is scrabbling around for *something* he can claim as a victory.

  • But* we don't actually know what Putin thinks. For all the comment and analysis *nobody* knows what Putin is thinking. Most likely even the people around him don't.
In the brief years the Russia archive was public historians were able to look at the decision to invade Afganistan. It was mindless. Nobody with domain knowledge was involved. Just a group of elderly blokes isolated in a room literally guessing how it might play out if they invaded. I strongly suspect Putin is following that model but on steroids.

Yes, I know the USA making the decision with experts involved didn't work, either. smile

Oilchange

8,462 posts

260 months

Thursday 26th May 2022
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I agree although I suspect he's easier to read than he thinks. The west has in recent years made the Russians look like amateurs at this game.

Byker28i

59,820 posts

217 months

Thursday 26th May 2022
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Sanctions are hitting home though

Western sanctions imposed after the Ukraine invasion are leading Russia to devolve into a secondhand economy dependent on poor substitutes, where shortages are stirring memories of the consumer wasteland that was the Soviet Union.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/05/26/ru...

Byker28i

59,820 posts

217 months

Thursday 26th May 2022
quotequote all
BrettMRC said:
I don't think the old T62 is a paragon of reliability either, so chances are you'll be stuck in a broken down death trap...