Russia invades Ukraine. Volume 2
Discussion
HM-2 said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Very nice of you signpost right at the beginning that your post is worthless drivel that can be skipped straight over in the first sentence. I wish all lunatic conspiracy theorists were so considerate. rxe said:
Byker28i said:
Lack of air superiority a factor?
Has to be. I don’t see (even with all the preparation above) how you could do this if the opposition could hit you with vast amounts of artillery that you are unable to counter. All they need is a single spotter (or drone) radioing back “keep shooting, one of them is still moving”.Byker28i said:
Four high-ranking US congressional Democrats have sent formal requests to the CEOs of YouTube, TikTok, Twitter, and Meta, asking them to archive content that could be used as evidence of Russian war crimes in Ukraine.
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/internet/democrats-as...
Bellingcat are also working hard on this, it's a critical part of the process. They go further than just finding/analysing and I was impressed with how professional they were in this aspect.https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/internet/democrats-as...
ClaphamGT3 said:
As a former Sapper, this is a well argued and accurate analysis. Even in the largest military operation, there is only so much bridging capability. It uses a lot of specialist, hard to replace people and a lot of specialist, hard to replace kit. If you lose it, odds are you're not getting it back on the life of that operation
I was maybe too young to appreciate the full picture as a young [French] army diver, but we used to train and provide safety for river crossings and do the river profile work, 'flagging' off a leaded rope in a 3m current etc was good fun, but looking at it now unless it was just 'pre-prepping options' it's pretty redundant in these sorts of dynamic situations[?]. Great snippet there rover 623gsi.
TTmonkey said:
One of the guys arrested and awaiting trial is a Sgt. He’s 21.
And they gave Generals that are barely thirty.
So they don’t have a clue.
I was a Petty Officer (Sgt equivalent) in the RN at 21, and it wasn't unusual. And they gave Generals that are barely thirty.
So they don’t have a clue.
Quite common for Junior Officers to be early late teens, early 20's as well.
Edited by 98elise on Saturday 14th May 11:38
98elise said:
I was a Perry Officer (Sgt equivalent) in the RN at 21, and it wasn't unusual.
Quite common for Junior Officers to be early late teens, early 20's as well.
Indeed. I was commissioned at 19 as were many others. Quite common for Junior Officers to be early late teens, early 20's as well.
Pretty much impossible to reach OF-7 in the British armed forces until mid/late 40s however
Evil west plundering resources, I thought what we were doing was called trade ?
Are we plundering all those Chinese products we buy and keeps China prospering ?
Is China plundering all the western intellectual property and innovation ?
Yeah we want resources, but we pay for them, that’s how it works. Putin decided he wanted more resources by stealing Ukraine, was that for Russian use only ? No, it was to sell on the global market.
Are we plundering all those Chinese products we buy and keeps China prospering ?
Is China plundering all the western intellectual property and innovation ?
Yeah we want resources, but we pay for them, that’s how it works. Putin decided he wanted more resources by stealing Ukraine, was that for Russian use only ? No, it was to sell on the global market.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I think your post sums up pretty much the Russian commentariat perspective. I don't agree with others who say your post should be ignored, because you are far from the only person saying these things, and it is important to understand what the counter narrative is. And as with any 'conspiracy theory', there are elements of truth amongst the twisted logic - like for example most of the US politicians agreeing to send money to Ukraine don't really care about Ukraine, else they would have agreed to send arms much earlier, but now the situation can be used as a proxy effort to degrade Russian capabilities, it is worth investing in.
The question I would pose is this - what are you actually saying was the justification for the invasion?
You already have a statement from Zelensky that Ukraine won't join Nato. And Russia knows the terms of Nato accession would prohibit Ukraine joining anyway. There might be some irritation within Russia as to Nato's previous expansion, but how does that justify attacking another country which isn't, can't and won't be a member of Nato?
If the justification for an invasion was maintaining the rights of the people within Donetsk and Luhansk, why wasn't the effort limited to those areas? Why did it necessitate the demolition of Mariupol and the attempted attack on Kyiv? Are you sure Russia explored every opportunity within legitimate means like the UN etc to avoid an invasion?
And the "denazification" objective - many countries have ultra-nationalists within their population. So even assuming there are some people in Ukraine holding these views, why is it Russia's sole responsibility to take unilateral action to invade another country to deal it? Don't you think most western countries also abhor ultra-nationalists? If that was the genuine motivation, Russia could have tried far harder to build an international consensus against these views.
Hopefully you can see why it seems to most people that these are just excuses, and they don't provide the basis of invading another country and for lots of people (on both sides) to die unnecessarily.
J4CKO said:
Evil west plundering resources, I thought what we were doing was called trade ?
Are we plundering all those Chinese products we buy and keeps China prospering ?
Is China plundering all the western intellectual property and innovation ?
Yeah we want resources, but we pay for them, that’s how it works. Putin decided he wanted more resources by stealing Ukraine, was that for Russian use only ? No, it was to sell on the global market.
I don't think he wanted to sell them at all in the short/medium term - just make sure they got left in the ground to maintain the price of Russian oil.Are we plundering all those Chinese products we buy and keeps China prospering ?
Is China plundering all the western intellectual property and innovation ?
Yeah we want resources, but we pay for them, that’s how it works. Putin decided he wanted more resources by stealing Ukraine, was that for Russian use only ? No, it was to sell on the global market.
HM-2 said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Very nice of you signpost right at the beginning that your post is worthless drivel that can be skipped straight over in the first sentence. I wish all lunatic conspiracy theorists were so considerate. 
EddieSteadyGo said:
And the "denazification" objective - many countries have ultra-nationalists within their population. So even assuming there are some people in Ukraine holding these views, why is it Russia's sole responsibility to take unilateral action to invade another country to deal it? Don't you think most western countries also abhor ultra-nationalists? If that was the genuine motivation, Russia could have tried far harder to build an international consensus against these views.
Firstly, I was in the "ignoring" camp but you've convinced me it's better to debunk, so you've convinced at least one person.I think your quoted point is the clincher. Even if we assume every word of the ludicrous and self contradictory pretext was true, it *still* doesn't justify or explain the invasion. UN, or a number of nations is the correct course of action with no nation gaining territory from the intervention. (There were 11 attempts by the UN to intervene to keep those areas safe, Russia voted against every one.)
Finally there were about 20 civilian deaths a year. In 3 months there have been 3500 documented deaths and we all know the true number is in the tens or thousands.
BikeBikeBIke said:
J4CKO said:
Evil west plundering resources, I thought what we were doing was called trade ?
Are we plundering all those Chinese products we buy and keeps China prospering ?
Is China plundering all the western intellectual property and innovation ?
Yeah we want resources, but we pay for them, that’s how it works. Putin decided he wanted more resources by stealing Ukraine, was that for Russian use only ? No, it was to sell on the global market.
I don't think he wanted to sell them at all in the short/medium term - just make sure they got left in the ground to maintain the price of Russian oil.Are we plundering all those Chinese products we buy and keeps China prospering ?
Is China plundering all the western intellectual property and innovation ?
Yeah we want resources, but we pay for them, that’s how it works. Putin decided he wanted more resources by stealing Ukraine, was that for Russian use only ? No, it was to sell on the global market.
But my main point was “Plundering”, that word means that we’re were/are stealing resources, which is very different to buying them, all those billions flowing into Russia has been a theme of all this, western countries dependent on BUYING Russian oil and gas.
BikeBikeBIke said:
Byker28i said:
It's funny because at the moment it just really looks like the russians went in to plunder white goods from Ukranian homes
Debunked. That's a component of the aircraft that happens to look like a washing machine.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff