Russia invades Ukraine. Volume 2

[hidetheelephants]

eharding said:

stongle said:

Are you being serious, or do you watch too much TikTok?

Putin hasn't gone "full bat-st", nor tontomental.

I've never watched TikTok in my life, but I try and keep up with the state of current affairs. You'll remember (or maybe you don't) the unguarded observation back in February from Ben Wallace that opinion within the MoD was that Putin had "gone full Tonto", a position that in essence has led the Finns and Swedes to reassess their security positions and apply to join NATO, given that the previous assumptions about the practical likelihood of being the subject of Russian aggression have been completely erased by Putin's invasion of Ukraine.

Do you think they *shouldn't* apply for NATO membership, that Putin's actions in Ukraine is a stunning and continuing example of rational Russian doctrine and strategic thinking, focused purely on Ukraine and that no other state bordering Russia has no business being worried by it? You might want to give your head a few wobbles.

I think they should because NATO totally needs Moomins; they be crazy mofos. The Groke is pretty scary too.

[Wombat3]

fblm said:

Derek Smith said:

He has 2 billion stashed away.

His boat and house alone are worth 2 billion! I think it's safe to say he's the richest man in Russia... that's how a kleptocracy is supposed to work!

Indeed, I think the most often repeated figure is that he's "earned" more like $200Bn!

[AW111]

hidetheelephants said:

think they should because NATO totally needs Moomins; they be crazy mofos. The Groke is pretty scary too.

Moomins are OK; it's the Hemulens you have to watch out for.

[GT03ROB]

sisu said:

What concerns me is if he dies tomorrow then the guy who replaces him would need to do the same thing he did, act in a powerful way and show strength to get respect. If he is weak then the Russians will see that person as the reason everything is bad.

....and herein lies the problem. Russia needs a strong leader both to hold the country together & also because the Russian population demands a strong leader. Putin understands that well.

The problem for the West is how can a leader be perceived to be strong domestically without strutting his stuff on the world stage.

[off_again]

Derek Smith said:

He has 2 billion stashed away. He is in charge. He has a secure powerbase he's feeding generously. He has a secure presence in Ukraine, and has annexed Crimea. He has some problems with regards security, but it is mop-up.

2 billion? Are you referring to Putin? He’s rumored to have close to a trillion! His summer dacha cost a billion and he’s never stayed there, well from what we know at least. And then there are the luxury super yachts, one of them are supposed to be $700m - and yes, he’s got two….

He’s engineered a system that ensures that he, or one of his cronies gets 50c of every dollar the state generates. But if you are referring to someone else, just ignore me….

[Puggit]

Putin going to use 'silent mobilisation' and recall army veterans

https://twitter.com/igorsushko/status/152597188410...

[RemarkLima]

GT03ROB said:

sisu said:

What concerns me is if he dies tomorrow then the guy who replaces him would need to do the same thing he did, act in a powerful way and show strength to get respect. If he is weak then the Russians will see that person as the reason everything is bad.

....and herein lies the problem. Russia needs a strong leader both to hold the country together & also because the Russian population demands a strong leader. Putin understands that well.

The problem for the West is how can a leader be perceived to be strong domestically without strutting his stuff on the world stage.

Is that really true?? The Russians I've worked with have all been normal, forward thinking, well adjusted and certainly didn't need a strong man as their boss or anything crazy like that...

Surely Medvedev wasn't a hard manager, nor Yeltsin... They have a gangster in charge because he's a gangster, not through the will of the people. The same as the other dictatorships. There is no other choice as to state that means that you get murdered or locked up.

Next, people will be saying that the British can only function with Maggie Thatcher in charge..

[sisu]

AW111 said:

hidetheelephants said:

think they should because NATO totally needs Moomins; they be crazy mofos. The Groke is pretty scary too.

Moomins are OK; it's the Hemulens you have to watch out for.

Although I can't speak for the Swedes, I know officially they have always had a choice as to where and when they got involved over the past 200 or more years. This policy of restraint has been holding back a country that leans on its Viking Heritage and at various points has been tested or questioned within Swedish culture even before the 1800s.

So this step into NATO should not be taken lightly.

[Castrol for a knave]

AW111 said:

hidetheelephants said:

think they should because NATO totally needs Moomins; they be crazy mofos. The Groke is pretty scary too.

Moomins are OK; it's the Hemulens you have to watch out for.

The Moomins was an allegory for war and the comet, nuclear war. Tove Jansson was an artist and political cartoonist, who mocked both Hitler and Stalin and was an accomplished artist. Even today, her estate refuses to licence anything Moomin related unless they agree with the cause. so Disney, despite offering $$$, is out, but Amnesty International, is in.

Her biography is well worth a read.

Anyhow, as you were.....

[Arnold Cunningham]

"As of 2017, the Moomin brand is estimated to have a yearly retail value of 700 million EUR per year"

Bloody hell! WOW.

[BikeBikeBIke]

GT03ROB said:

sisu said:

What concerns me is if he dies tomorrow then the guy who replaces him would need to do the same thing he did, act in a powerful way and show strength to get respect. If he is weak then the Russians will see that person as the reason everything is bad.

....and herein lies the problem. Russia needs a strong leader both to hold the country together & also because the Russian population demands a strong leader. Putin understands that well.

The problem for the West is how can a leader be perceived to be strong domestically without strutting his stuff on the world stage.

IME the people claiming that are typically Russians who want to justify keeping Putin in place trying to scare us with the bogeyman alternative.

I don't think a leader who wants to help Russia become a normal country would meet resistance. Yeltsin was a disaster because the economy went to rat poo. I don't think that was a 'weakness' problem.

Plus a modernizing Russian leader could be offered a vast amount of token international victories to brag about at home.

[TTmonkey]

What’s the point of having 400 billion over three hundred billion?
Or 300 billion over 200 billion?

Or any number over a couple of billion? All numbers above this become pointless to an individual.

I don’t see any point. Especially if you are Putin.

I’m guessing he doesn’t buy much. He just appropriates it from state funds.

What would he ever be able to buy now?

[EddieSteadyGo]

TTmonkey said:

What’s the point of having 400 billion over three hundred billion?
Or 300 billion over 200 billion?

Or any number over a couple of billion? All numbers above this become pointless to an individual.

I don’t see any point. Especially if you are Putin.

I’m guessing he doesn’t buy much. He just appropriates it from state funds.

What would he ever be able to buy now?

Which is probably why money isn't the motivation.... we need to look a little further up the Maslow's hierarchy of needs into the higher versions of esteem and above to understand what motivates him.

[BikeBikeBIke]

From Telegram:


"I work at the bus station in Rostov. I see a lot of guys in uniform during the day, returning “from there”. Little optimism. All as one say, fked up utter."

[Byker28i]

TTmonkey said:

What’s the point of having 400 billion over three hundred billion?
Or 300 billion over 200 billion?

Or any number over a couple of billion? All numbers above this become pointless to an individual.

I don’t see any point. Especially if you are Putin.

I’m guessing he doesn’t buy much. He just appropriates it from state funds.

What would he ever be able to buy now?

What could someone with a huge amount of money and an ego as large buy. Twitter?

[mondeoman]

Byker28i said:

TTmonkey said:

What’s the point of having 400 billion over three hundred billion?
Or 300 billion over 200 billion?

Or any number over a couple of billion? All numbers above this become pointless to an individual.

I don’t see any point. Especially if you are Putin.

I’m guessing he doesn’t buy much. He just appropriates it from state funds.

What would he ever be able to buy now?

What could someone with a huge amount of money and an ego as large buy. Twitter?

Dont think they'd accept Roubles somehow.

If he cant access the $$$$s, its worthless to him.

[CrutyRammers]

Drone beats tank.
https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/1525900772508...

I do wonder if we'll see creation of much cheaper, smaller military drones after this, rather than/as well as just the big reapers etc. Given the track record of military procurement, probably not. But they're clearly useful.

[Digga]

TTmonkey said:

What’s the point of having 400 billion over three hundred billion?
Or 300 billion over 200 billion?

Or any number over a couple of billion? All numbers above this become pointless to an individual.

I don’t see any point. Especially if you are Putin.

I’m guessing he doesn’t buy much. He just appropriates it from state funds.

What would he ever be able to buy now?

He can have any amount of wealth, but it cannot ever buy him true freedom or luxury.

All the oligarchs moved wealth out of Russia into goods - planes, or boats - and property that offered a better alternative to anything available in Russia,. Just look at Putin's palace of mildew on the Black Sea for why, at any level of spend, the corruption and incompetence in Russia make wealth impossible to enjoy.

Having to live behind layers of security and protection is ridiculous and farcical.

As for whether Russians 'need' a strongman leader, well I guess not all Russians are the same. The ones 'we' deal with are likely the more educated and well traveled. It will be the rednecks that perhaps think they need strong leadership, but in point of fact, if they knew how badly they were being scalped by their elite, they might be happy to look at more beneficial alternatives.

[Puggit]

BikeBikeBIke said:

From Telegram:


"I work at the bus station in Rostov. I see a lot of guys in uniform during the day, returning “from there”. Little optimism. All as one say, fked up utter."

NYT featured an article yesterday about how even the very pro-Russian social media posters are now asking public questions.

[AstonZagato]

I know a couple of billionaires and met a few more over the years.
They rarely seem to derive much pleasure from their wealth - in terms of having lots of "stuff" but seemingly not having the time to enjoy it, except in snatched moments between working to make even more money.
For them, money has become a way of "keeping score".
I suspect Putin is the same.
He has to have the biggest yacht but can't really go on it - he can't be seen lounging on it and the security aspects are poor
Likewise his vast summer dacha.