Russia invades Ukraine. Volume 2

[Byker28i]

Finland and Sweden have formally submited applications to join NATO
https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-finland-and...

[Byker28i]

The Washington Post are reporting that the G-7 are to announce an aid package to cover damages from Russia's war on Ukraine, which could be as large as $15 billion.

Doesn't seem that big considering how much is being pumped into help them oevrcome the russian invasion.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2022/05/1...

[J4CKO]

FiF said:

The comments from that presenter just show the mind state, "we had to do it" " glorious nation will win"

Plus do they think that the Ukrainian will to fight and possibly die for their nation is unique to Ukrainians. They've got a shock coming if they try that one.

Clearly also did not understand the point the guy was making about military professionalism.

I have said it before but this is what happens when you get high on your own supply, believe your own bullst and self aggrandize, Russia has long been like the angry bear stomping about and we have all been either convinvced or just avoiding pissing it off.

Now, gloves are off, its in the open as much as it can be and they are getting resistance, from the Ukranians, they have no objection, and largely quiet and dignified action from most of the rest of the world and the continued attention of some toadies.

Some folk even stood by Jimmy Savile maybe through blind loyalty, stupidity, lack of ideas or the possibility of a few quid and I dont think those countries that were for the invasion or abstained are that different.

Russia thought it looked like that big bodybuilder type strutting about, but actually now looks like that freak that shoots his arms full of mineral oil.

[Jhonno]

CrutyRammers said:

sisu said:

Arnold Cunningham said:

It's certainly one of the features that make me very proud and respectful of all our servicemen.
I get that it's underfunded and all the "issues" the services have, but the calibre of individuals themselves in the UK forces I think remains world class.

I would ilke my "next career" to be involved in the R&D of some of the tech we're talking about above to support our forces. We can all dream, right?

I think this will be good for European and UK in the same way that Corona was a wake up call. What is war or an invasion really going to be like? Should we be making or buying stuff locally? Do you need to have money spent on a 1980s era equipment if you have no air force? Yes. But there are much better options available now. The EU army that was the boggie man of Brexit well now does not seem so bad anymore?

Interesting take on things. If anything, the behaviour of various EU countries here rather reinforces the view that such an army would be of zero use, because they'd all still be arguing about what to do while the enemy tanks rolled up outside.
When the st hits the fan, actions are and always have been negotiated by individual countries talking to each other, as we're seeing again here.

I'd agree with this.. This has highlighted how bad it would have been!

[TheJimi]

Byker28i said:

The Washington Post are reporting that the G-7 are to announce an aid package to cover damages from Russia's war on Ukraine, which could be as large as $15 billion.

Doesn't seem that big considering how much is being pumped into help them oevrcome the russian invasion.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2022/05/1...

I'd be astonished if $15B came anywhere close to touching the sides.

[MOTORVATOR]

Munter said:

MOTORVATOR said:

Jhonno said:

No mention of the Russians threatening to renegade on the Azov Steelworks soldiers POW swap deal, now they have them in their hands? Instead classing them as terrorists and trying them in the courts as such in Russia..

I've seen this sort of thing mentioned a few times and not sure why. Russian laws do not apply to citizens of another country while they are in that country.

As batst crazy as Putin is, even he would not be stupid enough to go down that route as the last remaining piece of world credibility would be gone. Effectively no longer recognised as a sovereign state itself.

From Putin's point of view, they were in Russia. Remember that Ukraine doesn't exist, it's all Russian territory.

Total rubbish and what you want to hear rather than what has ever been said by Russia.

The closest they have come to not recognising Ukraine's Sovereignty is to recognise the break away Luhansk and Donetsk republics as autonomous. Even Crimea they would not have attempted to apply Russian laws until they 'annexed' it.

[spikeyhead]

Arnold Cunningham said:

It's certainly one of the features that make me very proud and respectful of all our servicemen.
I get that it's underfunded and all the "issues" the services have, but the calibre of individuals themselves in the UK forces I think remains world class.

I would ilke my "next career" to be involved in the R&D of some of the tech we're talking about above to support our forces. We can all dream, right?

I've done some of that. Some of it's been good fun, other parts have been tedious paper pushing exercises.

...but when contracting I needed some professional indemnity insurance. The conversation went like this.

me "Hi, I'd like a quote of some PE insurance please."
Them "certainly sir, if the product goes wrong, could someone die?"
me, "I hope so, that's what it's designed to do."
Click brrrrr

[TheJimi]

MOTORVATOR said:

Munter said:

MOTORVATOR said:

Jhonno said:

No mention of the Russians threatening to renegade on the Azov Steelworks soldiers POW swap deal, now they have them in their hands? Instead classing them as terrorists and trying them in the courts as such in Russia..

I've seen this sort of thing mentioned a few times and not sure why. Russian laws do not apply to citizens of another country while they are in that country.

As batst crazy as Putin is, even he would not be stupid enough to go down that route as the last remaining piece of world credibility would be gone. Effectively no longer recognised as a sovereign state itself.

From Putin's point of view, they were in Russia. Remember that Ukraine doesn't exist, it's all Russian territory.

Total rubbish and what you want to hear rather than what has ever been said by Russia.

The closest they have come to not recognising Ukraine's Sovereignty is to recognise the break away Luhansk and Donetsk republics as autonomous. Even Crimea they would not have attempted to apply Russian laws until they 'annexed' it.

What do you call attempting to take Kyiv and remove Zelensky? The whole bloody affair is Russia not recognising Ukrainian sovereignty.

Edited by TheJimi on Wednesday 18th May 11:43

[Puggit]

Something kicking off in (occupied) Melitopol:

https://twitter.com/CanadianUkrain1/status/1526872...

[hidetheelephants]

TheJimi said:

Byker28i said:

The Washington Post are reporting that the G-7 are to announce an aid package to cover damages from Russia's war on Ukraine, which could be as large as $15 billion.

Doesn't seem that big considering how much is being pumped into help them oevrcome the russian invasion.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2022/05/1...

I'd be astonished if $15B came anywhere close to touching the sides.

Need to add at least a zero on the end, probably even then a low ball for all the smashed buildings and infrastructure.

[speedy_thrills]

Russia has about $300bn in frozen reserves...

[Jhonno]

MOTORVATOR said:

Munter said:

MOTORVATOR said:

Jhonno said:

No mention of the Russians threatening to renegade on the Azov Steelworks soldiers POW swap deal, now they have them in their hands? Instead classing them as terrorists and trying them in the courts as such in Russia..

I've seen this sort of thing mentioned a few times and not sure why. Russian laws do not apply to citizens of another country while they are in that country.

As batst crazy as Putin is, even he would not be stupid enough to go down that route as the last remaining piece of world credibility would be gone. Effectively no longer recognised as a sovereign state itself.

From Putin's point of view, they were in Russia. Remember that Ukraine doesn't exist, it's all Russian territory.

Total rubbish and what you want to hear rather than what has ever been said by Russia.

The closest they have come to not recognising Ukraine's Sovereignty is to recognise the break away Luhansk and Donetsk republics as autonomous. Even Crimea they would not have attempted to apply Russian laws until they 'annexed' it.

It seems you confuse Russia with a country that respects anything other than what it thinks should happen..

These are things that have been said by Russians, not just made up narrative.

Edited by Jhonno on Wednesday 18th May 11:53

[BikeBikeBIke]

speedy_thrills said:

Russia has about $300bn in frozen reserves...

I wonder if there are practical or legal issues with rebuilding Ukraine with that money.

It's very, very tempting.

[anonymous-user]

sisu said:

... The EU army that was the boggie man of Brexit well now does not seem so bad anymore?
...

Lol. Think we must have been watching a different war. What exactly do you imagine an EU army, presumably majority (under)funded and armed by France and Germany, would have achieved? The only effect I could see it realistically having is restricting other EU countries from exporting their weapons to Ukraine.

[RizzoTheRat]

hidetheelephants said:

TheJimi said:

Byker28i said:

The Washington Post are reporting that the G-7 are to announce an aid package to cover damages from Russia's war on Ukraine, which could be as large as $15 billion.

Doesn't seem that big considering how much is being pumped into help them oevrcome the russian invasion.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2022/05/1...

I'd be astonished if $15B came anywhere close to touching the sides.

Need to add at least a zero on the end, probably even then a low ball for all the smashed buildings and infrastructure.

$600Bn was a figure mentioned a while back

[MOTORVATOR]

Jhonno said:

MOTORVATOR said:

Munter said:

MOTORVATOR said:

Jhonno said:

No mention of the Russians threatening to renegade on the Azov Steelworks soldiers POW swap deal, now they have them in their hands? Instead classing them as terrorists and trying them in the courts as such in Russia..

I've seen this sort of thing mentioned a few times and not sure why. Russian laws do not apply to citizens of another country while they are in that country.

As batst crazy as Putin is, even he would not be stupid enough to go down that route as the last remaining piece of world credibility would be gone. Effectively no longer recognised as a sovereign state itself.

From Putin's point of view, they were in Russia. Remember that Ukraine doesn't exist, it's all Russian territory.

Total rubbish and what you want to hear rather than what has ever been said by Russia.

The closest they have come to not recognising Ukraine's Sovereignty is to recognise the break away Luhansk and Donetsk republics as autonomous. Even Crimea they would not have attempted to apply Russian laws until they 'annexed' it.

It seems you confuse Russia with a country that respects anything other than what it thinks should happen..

It seems to me that you are making a fantasy up in your head.

There is a fundamental reason that Putin wanted to refer to it all being a special military operation and that is because a declaration of war on Ukraine would have been one on us at the same time due to our commitments under Budapest. FR/USA/CH would also be committed but to a lesser extent due to their weaseling at the time with watered down side agreements.

What Putin is not about to do is attempt to apply Russian laws within any part of Ukraine without first annexing. He will try the old bks of attempting to prove crimes against civilians in order to justify humanitarian cases under the unrecognised Donetsk / Luhantsk constitutions but will not find support for it unless he hands over all of his own offenders which we all know is not going to happen.

Yes he is a complete dhead but the imprisonment of another countries citizens using his own laws is an act of war that would be dealt with very severely by the ROW.

There's more than enough violation going on without any imaginary stuff invented on here I would have thought.

[Jhonno]

MOTORVATOR said:

Jhonno said:

MOTORVATOR said:

Munter said:

MOTORVATOR said:

Jhonno said:

No mention of the Russians threatening to renegade on the Azov Steelworks soldiers POW swap deal, now they have them in their hands? Instead classing them as terrorists and trying them in the courts as such in Russia..

I've seen this sort of thing mentioned a few times and not sure why. Russian laws do not apply to citizens of another country while they are in that country.

As batst crazy as Putin is, even he would not be stupid enough to go down that route as the last remaining piece of world credibility would be gone. Effectively no longer recognised as a sovereign state itself.

From Putin's point of view, they were in Russia. Remember that Ukraine doesn't exist, it's all Russian territory.

Total rubbish and what you want to hear rather than what has ever been said by Russia.

The closest they have come to not recognising Ukraine's Sovereignty is to recognise the break away Luhansk and Donetsk republics as autonomous. Even Crimea they would not have attempted to apply Russian laws until they 'annexed' it.

It seems you confuse Russia with a country that respects anything other than what it thinks should happen..

It seems to me that you are making a fantasy up in your head.

There is a fundamental reason that Putin wanted to refer to it all being a special military operation and that is because a declaration of war on Ukraine would have been one on us at the same time due to our commitments under Budapest. FR/USA/CH would also be committed but to a lesser extent due to their weaseling at the time with watered down side agreements.

What Putin is not about to do is attempt to apply Russian laws within any part of Ukraine without first annexing. He will try the old bks of attempting to prove crimes against civilians in order to justify humanitarian cases under the unrecognised Donetsk / Luhantsk constitutions but will not find support for it unless he hands over all of his own offenders which we all know is not going to happen.

Yes he is a complete dhead but the imprisonment of another countries citizens using his own laws is an act of war that would be dealt with very severely by the ROW.

There's more than enough violation going on without any imaginary stuff invented on here I would have thought.

I've got much better things to do than make things up on here..

This is actual words being reported by people. Not something imagined up in my head, and somehow telepathically made someone else make the same thing up.

[swanny71]

Jhonno said:

Munter said:

MOTORVATOR said:

Jhonno said:

No mention of the Russians threatening to renegade on the Azov Steelworks soldiers POW swap deal, now they have them in their hands? Instead classing them as terrorists and trying them in the courts as such in Russia..

I've seen this sort of thing mentioned a few times and not sure why. Russian laws do not apply to citizens of another country while they are in that country.

As batst crazy as Putin is, even he would not be stupid enough to go down that route as the last remaining piece of world credibility would be gone. Effectively no longer recognised as a sovereign state itself.

From Putin's point of view, they were in Russia. Remember that Ukraine doesn't exist, it's all Russian territory.

This. It would include classifying their regiment as a terrorist organisation..

I have a horrible feeling about this - Russia to renegade on any deals made regarding evacuation/surrender/swaps claiming the Azovstal fighters are Nazis or war criminal’s and making an example of them for propaganda reasons.

Any hope of a negotiated peace takes a big step backwards.

Worldwide condemnation of Russia’s behaviour (again), Russia blames the West/NATO for ganging up on them (again), more vague threats are made (again) and the horrors of this invasion continue or get worse…

[MOTORVATOR]

Jhonno said:

I've got much better things to do than make things up on here..

This is actual words being reported by people. Not something imagined up in my head, and somehow telepathically made someone else make the same thing up.

So link us the actual Russian government statements then rather than an opinion?

[anonymous-user]

MOTORVATOR said:

Jhonno said:

MOTORVATOR said:

Munter said:

MOTORVATOR said:

Jhonno said:

No mention of the Russians threatening to renegade on the Azov Steelworks soldiers POW swap deal, now they have them in their hands? Instead classing them as terrorists and trying them in the courts as such in Russia..

I've seen this sort of thing mentioned a few times and not sure why. Russian laws do not apply to citizens of another country while they are in that country.

As batst crazy as Putin is, even he would not be stupid enough to go down that route as the last remaining piece of world credibility would be gone. Effectively no longer recognised as a sovereign state itself.

From Putin's point of view, they were in Russia. Remember that Ukraine doesn't exist, it's all Russian territory.

Total rubbish and what you want to hear rather than what has ever been said by Russia.

The closest they have come to not recognising Ukraine's Sovereignty is to recognise the break away Luhansk and Donetsk republics as autonomous. Even Crimea they would not have attempted to apply Russian laws until they 'annexed' it.

It seems you confuse Russia with a country that respects anything other than what it thinks should happen..

It seems to me that you are making a fantasy up in your head.

There is a fundamental reason that Putin wanted to refer to it all being a special military operation and that is because a declaration of war on Ukraine would have been one on us at the same time due to our commitments under Budapest. FR/USA/CH would also be committed but to a lesser extent due to their weaseling at the time with watered down side agreements.

What Putin is not about to do is attempt to apply Russian laws within any part of Ukraine without first annexing. He will try the old bks of attempting to prove crimes against civilians in order to justify humanitarian cases under the unrecognised Donetsk / Luhantsk constitutions but will not find support for it unless he hands over all of his own offenders which we all know is not going to happen.

Yes he is a complete dhead but the imprisonment of another countries citizens using his own laws is an act of war that would be dealt with very severely by the ROW.

There's more than enough violation going on without any imaginary stuff invented on here I would have thought.

You should spend more time reading than lecturing maybe.

"May 17 (Reuters) - The office of Russia's Prosecutor General has asked the Supreme Court to recognise Ukraine's Azov Regiment as a "terrorist organisation", Interfax news agency reported on Tuesday citing the Ministry of Justice website.

Russia's Supreme Court is scheduled to hear the case on May 26, Interfax reports."

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russian-prose...

"Ukraine’s deputy defence minister said they would be swapped in a prisoner exchange, but some Russian officials said on Tuesday they could be tried and even executed. MPs in Russia’s State Duma said they would propose new laws that could derail prisoner exchanges of fighters who Moscow claims are “terrorists”."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/w...