Russia invades Ukraine. Volume 2

[BikeBikeBIke]

fblm said:

You should spend more time reading than lecturing maybe.

"May 17 (Reuters) - The office of Russia's Prosecutor General has asked the Supreme Court to recognise Ukraine's Azov Regiment as a "terrorist organisation", Interfax news agency reported on Tuesday citing the Ministry of Justice website.

Russia's Supreme Court is scheduled to hear the case on May 26, Interfax reports."

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russian-prose...

"Ukraine’s deputy defence minister said they would be swapped in a prisoner exchange, but some Russian officials said on Tuesday they could be tried and even executed. MPs in Russia’s State Duma said they would propose new laws that could derail prisoner exchanges of fighters who Moscow claims are “terrorists”."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/w...

Could simply be managing the public backlash to their exchange.

What is going on with exchanges. You think both sides would want to hang on to prisoners.

[mondeoman]

BikeBikeBIke said:

fblm said:

You should spend more time reading than lecturing maybe.

"May 17 (Reuters) - The office of Russia's Prosecutor General has asked the Supreme Court to recognise Ukraine's Azov Regiment as a "terrorist organisation", Interfax news agency reported on Tuesday citing the Ministry of Justice website.

Russia's Supreme Court is scheduled to hear the case on May 26, Interfax reports."

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russian-prose...

"Ukraine’s deputy defence minister said they would be swapped in a prisoner exchange, but some Russian officials said on Tuesday they could be tried and even executed. MPs in Russia’s State Duma said they would propose new laws that could derail prisoner exchanges of fighters who Moscow claims are “terrorists”."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/w...

Could simply be managing the public backlash to their exchange.

What is going on with exchanges. You think both sides would want to hang on to prisoners.

Prisoners take up resources - the RU approach will be to shoot them or disappear them as they dont want the overhead, especially if they get wounded soldiers back in return. UKR will want to swap them out quickly and get their countrymen home.
Mutually exclusive goals.

[8bit]

India calls off negotiations to purchase Russian helicopters. Wonder if we'll see a lot of Russian arms exports dry up as a result of their "performance" of late.

https://www.theigmp.org/2022/05/india-halts-ka-31-...

[bern]

TheJimi said:

Byker28i said:

The Washington Post are reporting that the G-7 are to announce an aid package to cover damages from Russia's war on Ukraine, which could be as large as $15 billion.

Doesn't seem that big considering how much is being pumped into help them oevrcome the russian invasion.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2022/05/1...

I'd be astonished if $15B came anywhere close to touching the sides.

Or half a track and trace app!

[bigandclever]

Looks like the first war crime trial has the defendant pleading guilty.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61441907

[Lotobear]

bigandclever said:

Looks like the first war crime trial has the defendant pleading guilty.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61441907

Got to feel sorry for him, regardless of his crimes, he's nothing but a kid

[sisu]

fblm said:

Lol. Think we must have been watching a different war. What exactly do you imagine an EU army, presumably majority (under)funded and armed by France and Germany, would have achieved? The only effect I could see it realistically having is restricting other EU countries from exporting their weapons to Ukraine.

No I was pointing out that by working together we can do a better job than just working within our own interests and risks. Britain can't save Ukraine and neither can Poland individually.
One of Russia's aims was to have bickering between Europe and to steamroll its way into Ukraine.
Russia views Germany as the one with the hand on the tiller and that all the countries between them are collateral. When in fact France and Germany are the ones following the lead.

[TheJimi]

Lotobear said:

bigandclever said:

Looks like the first war crime trial has the defendant pleading guilty.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61441907

Got to feel sorry for him, regardless of his crimes, he's nothing but a kid

I suspect if you were a relative of the guy he shot, you'd feel differently.

[bmwmike]

Lotobear said:

bigandclever said:

Looks like the first war crime trial has the defendant pleading guilty.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61441907

Got to feel sorry for him, regardless of his crimes, he's nothing but a kid

Err no, he is an adult and knows - or should know - right from wrong. He is 21 ffs.

[Smiljan]

bigandclever said:

Looks like the first war crime trial has the defendant pleading guilty.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61441907

article said:

Mr Shishimarin spoke to confirm basic details such as his name. He is yet to enter a plea, and the trial will reconvene next week.

[AstonZagato]

speedy_thrills said:

...
As forewarning though Ukraine is still a very corrupt place. It will take a lot of time and work to implement the policies, checks and balances to prevent this. Countries don't just change overnight (except maybe Singapore.)

I am hopeful here. Zelensky was elected on an anti-corruption ticket. He has faced huge opposition from the Ukrainian oligarchs (unsurprisingly). In the aftermath of this war, his mandate will be almost unassailable. If he choses to crack down (rather than be corrupted), then I think he might, just might, succeed.

[Byker28i]

Looks like asia is buying russian oil and they're having to ship it there
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-18...

[Lotobear]

TheJimi said:

Lotobear said:

bigandclever said:

Looks like the first war crime trial has the defendant pleading guilty.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61441907

Got to feel sorry for him, regardless of his crimes, he's nothing but a kid

I suspect if you were the relative of the guy he shot, you'd feel differently.

Yes, I would and I completely get that but it doesn't preclude feeling some empathy for one so young - it's a hackneyed comment but there are no winners in any of this, it dehumanises everyone.

[J4CKO]

mondeoman said:

BikeBikeBIke said:

fblm said:

You should spend more time reading than lecturing maybe.

"May 17 (Reuters) - The office of Russia's Prosecutor General has asked the Supreme Court to recognise Ukraine's Azov Regiment as a "terrorist organisation", Interfax news agency reported on Tuesday citing the Ministry of Justice website.

Russia's Supreme Court is scheduled to hear the case on May 26, Interfax reports."

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russian-prose...

"Ukraine’s deputy defence minister said they would be swapped in a prisoner exchange, but some Russian officials said on Tuesday they could be tried and even executed. MPs in Russia’s State Duma said they would propose new laws that could derail prisoner exchanges of fighters who Moscow claims are “terrorists”."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/w...

Could simply be managing the public backlash to their exchange.

What is going on with exchanges. You think both sides would want to hang on to prisoners.

Prisoners take up resources - the RU approach will be to shoot them or disappear them as they dont want the overhead, especially if they get wounded soldiers back in return. UKR will want to swap them out quickly and get their countrymen home.
Mutually exclusive goals.

I think the resources are a minor concern compared to them parading them and using them as collateral or as an opportunity to make a point in executing them.

Its like that Eddie Murphy sketch "I got an Ice Cream", like a kid gloating to his mates, or how cats are when they catch something.

Most countries would be using that collateral to use in an exchange but Russia dont give a st about their own troops, that has been abundantly clear through this whole thing, they really are considered disposable. Executing your own men for the crime of getting injured ffs.

Saw a video yesterday where Russian people were asked what the West envy's about Russia, main answer was "The Soil", oh, and their spirit, so one is dirt and the other intangible.

[AlexIT]

Byker28i said:

Looks like asia is buying russian oil and they're having to ship it there
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-18...

If these ships are built to the same standard as what we are seeing right now, I fear we might face some nasty environments problems some point along the routes taken by these tankers.

[AstonZagato]

MOTORVATOR said:

Munter said:

MOTORVATOR said:

Jhonno said:

No mention of the Russians threatening to renegade on the Azov Steelworks soldiers POW swap deal, now they have them in their hands? Instead classing them as terrorists and trying them in the courts as such in Russia..

I've seen this sort of thing mentioned a few times and not sure why. Russian laws do not apply to citizens of another country while they are in that country.

As batst crazy as Putin is, even he would not be stupid enough to go down that route as the last remaining piece of world credibility would be gone. Effectively no longer recognised as a sovereign state itself.

From Putin's point of view, they were in Russia. Remember that Ukraine doesn't exist, it's all Russian territory.

Total rubbish and what you want to hear rather than what has ever been said by Russia.

The closest they have come to not recognising Ukraine's Sovereignty is to recognise the break away Luhansk and Donetsk republics as autonomous. Even Crimea they would not have attempted to apply Russian laws until they 'annexed' it.

Putin explicitly denied that Ukraine had ever had statehood at the start of the war:
https://time.com/6150046/ukraine-statehood-russia-...

[BikeBikeBIke]

Lotobear said:

bigandclever said:

Looks like the first war crime trial has the defendant pleading guilty.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61441907

Got to feel sorry for him, regardless of his crimes, he's nothing but a kid

Me too. An unreal situation and not quite up there with some other crimes we've seen.

Sends the right message to other Russian soldiers so I do think it's the right thing to do.

I hope his brief says: "These things happen in war." and gets the response: "It's not a war it's a special operation "

[L1OFF]

Lotobear said:

Yes, I would and I completely get that but it doesn't preclude feeling some empathy for one so young - it's a hackneyed comment but there are no winners in any of this, it dehumanises everyone.

My feelings and empathy are with the Ukrainian babies, children and women who have been tortured, raped and murdered by these scum masquerading as soldiers. A pox on them and their houses.

[madbadger]

8bit said:

India calls off negotiations to purchase Russian helicopters. Wonder if we'll see a lot of Russian arms exports dry up as a result of their "performance" of late.

https://www.theigmp.org/2022/05/india-halts-ka-31-...

I would expect them to have some supply issues even if they did maintain the order book.

[mondeoman]

Byker28i said:

Looks like asia is buying russian oil and they're having to ship it there
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-18...

Thats an easy one - UN sanction on the movement of RU oil by sea, NATO countries close the Baltic or insist on the use of local pilots for the duration of the time the ships are in that area - at £1m/hour and speed limit is 1mph, just enough to maintain steering capability. Or they have to be towed, or some other buggeration factor.