Russia invades Ukraine. Volume 2

[PRTVR]

havoc said:

FiF said:

US is considering sending Harpoon missiles to :ahem: deal with Russian Black Sea fleet that is blockading export shipments. US suggesting it would be possible to send Harpoon and other Naval Strike Missiles directly or from a handful of other allied nations who possess them and are interested to do so.

'Send' how, exactly?

Self-propelled, so-to-speak?

I believe they can be air dropped, drop them from 20,000 feet and when they are down to 10,000 feet they become Ukrainian, simply really.
An update from Ukraine, a Ukrainian youtube channel, where he keeps a track of the situation and shows some videos with English translations.
https://youtu.be/MDC3L5yNF28

[speedy_thrills]

off_again said:

Credit to the MOD on this - their intelligence has been extremely good over the years...

Almost like they've got a few good Russian assets on the payroll.

[speedy_thrills]

PRTVR said:

havoc said:

FiF said:

US is considering sending Harpoon missiles to :ahem: deal with Russian Black Sea fleet that is blockading export shipments. US suggesting it would be possible to send Harpoon and other Naval Strike Missiles directly or from a handful of other allied nations who possess them and are interested to do so.

'Send' how, exactly?

Self-propelled, so-to-speak?

I believe they can be air dropped, drop them from 20,000 feet and when they are down to 10,000 feet they become Ukrainian, simply really.

Does it matter? It's all headed for Russia regardless of if the Ukrainians do the last mile delivery or outsource it.

[PRTVR]

speedy_thrills said:

PRTVR said:

havoc said:

FiF said:

US is considering sending Harpoon missiles to :ahem: deal with Russian Black Sea fleet that is blockading export shipments. US suggesting it would be possible to send Harpoon and other Naval Strike Missiles directly or from a handful of other allied nations who possess them and are interested to do so.

'Send' how, exactly?

Self-propelled, so-to-speak?

I believe they can be air dropped, drop them from 20,000 feet and when they are down to 10,000 feet they become Ukrainian, simply really.

Does it matter? It's all headed for Russia regardless of if the Ukrainians do the last mile delivery or outsource it.

I think it matters to the Russians.

[MOTORVATOR]

SlimJim16v said:

The countries suffering from Russia's blockade of Ukraine should send their navies to protect and escort Ukraine's exports. From what I've read in the articles linked above, the st has already started hitting the fan in poorer countries.

The useless UN should be doing something.

The Bosphorus and Dardanelles straits are closed to all warships other than those returning to base so would require a bit if escalation from Turkey Bulgaria, Romania, Moldova to put anything meaningful Navy wise in there.

And realistically using a Panama or British etc flagged vessel would be sufficient deterrent that Russia are not going to actively attack it in any case. How they get past the minefields though is a little bit more of a problem and probably falls outside of your average Lloyds policy?

[hidetheelephants]

MOTORVATOR said:

SlimJim16v said:

The countries suffering from Russia's blockade of Ukraine should send their navies to protect and escort Ukraine's exports. From what I've read in the articles linked above, the st has already started hitting the fan in poorer countries.

The useless UN should be doing something.

The Bosphorus and Dardanelles straits are closed to all warships other than those returning to base so would require a bit if escalation from Turkey Bulgaria, Romania, Moldova to put anything meaningful Navy wise in there.

And realistically using a Panama or British etc flagged vessel would be sufficient deterrent that Russia are not going to actively attack it in any case. How they get past the minefields though is a little bit more of a problem and probably falls outside of your average Lloyds policy?

Clear the mines; RN is trialling ROV mine clearance, this seems like an ideal opporchancity to do it for real. There's also clearance by contact, which is pretty hard on the crews but provided the ships used are knackered and ready for scrap isn't the end of the world.

[MOTORVATOR]

hidetheelephants said:

MOTORVATOR said:

SlimJim16v said:

The countries suffering from Russia's blockade of Ukraine should send their navies to protect and escort Ukraine's exports. From what I've read in the articles linked above, the st has already started hitting the fan in poorer countries.

The useless UN should be doing something.

The Bosphorus and Dardanelles straits are closed to all warships other than those returning to base so would require a bit if escalation from Turkey Bulgaria, Romania, Moldova to put anything meaningful Navy wise in there.

And realistically using a Panama or British etc flagged vessel would be sufficient deterrent that Russia are not going to actively attack it in any case. How they get past the minefields though is a little bit more of a problem and probably falls outside of your average Lloyds policy?

Clear the mines; RN is trialling ROV mine clearance, this seems like an ideal opporchancity to do it for real. There's also clearance by contact, which is pretty hard on the crews but provided the ships used are knackered and ready for scrap isn't the end of the world.

Would you suggest they blank out the RN bit in the name and fly a red rather white ensign while they are carrying out this task?

[FiF]

havoc said:

FiF said:

US is considering sending Harpoon missiles to :ahem: deal with Russian Black Sea fleet that is blockading export shipments. US suggesting it would be possible to send Harpoon and other Naval Strike Missiles directly or from a handful of other allied nations who possess them and are interested to do so.

'Send' how, exactly?

Self-propelled, so-to-speak?

Note the

Clearly in the context used by US spokeswoman they mean physically supply weapons and training for UKR forces to do the 'necessary'. And I really do mean the word 'necessary'. There really is little alternative to putting Russia right back in its box so that the leaders and the people and the appeasers, yes you Germany etc, get the message that RoW not prepared to put up with this crap any longer.

Clearly there is a fundamental problem with that approach which could be likened to not learning the lessons from WW1 and the way Germany was dealt with, leading to WW2.

[CrutyRammers]

FiF said:

bloomen said:

Since Russia is now saying the Black Sea export blockades will stay in place unless sanctions are reviewed, I wonder where regional grimness ends and global grimness begins.

Weirdly enough the countries that will suffer the most likely offer the most support to Russia. I wonder whether that'll last.

Sometimes the UN could do with being fully weaponised.

US is considering sending Harpoon missiles to :ahem: deal with Russian Black Sea fleet that is blockading export shipments. US suggesting it would be possible to send Harpoon and other Naval Strike Missiles directly or from a handful of other allied nations who possess them and are interested to do so. Of course the question that arises is the one of escalation, but in my opinion this is what UN resolutions are for.

I thought the UK had already sent some. It was all over the news back in April.
And escalation? Ukr already sunk a warship with missiles, and has sunk various other naval ships with drones.

[Evanivitch]

CrutyRammers said:

I thought the UK had already sent some. It was all over the news back in April.
And escalation? Ukr already sunk a warship with missiles, and has sunk various other naval ships with drones.

Reportedly, but UK stocks of harpoon are approaching end of life and very few available.

[CrutyRammers]

Ridgemont said:

king arthur said:

It's not just that though. Sri Lanka relies a lot on the tourist industry to bring in foreign currency. They have literally run out of foreign currency reserves now so they cannot pay for the fuel that is waiting to be imported. There is apparently enough petrol for one day.

People are rioting and setting fire to MP's houses - one MP has apparently been killed, beaten to death by protesters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnX1zJZfo34

I think it would be safe to say we will see a lot more of this in 2022. Turkey is in similar dire straits with regard to foreign currency reserves due in no small part to Erdogan's idiotic monetary policies.

Without trying to sound overly detached from the human significance this is interesting global geo politics playing out right now.

There are a lot of countries now completely bent out of shape following the pandemic and the earlier GFC combining with irrational financial policies. We are seeing some of the impact here but I think the brunt is being born by the countries that have played fast and loose with the international system. They are canaries in the mine so far:

Turkey:
https://amp.theguardian.com/business/2022/apr/16/t...

Sri Lanka
https://indianexpress.com/article/explained/sri-la...

Inflation, balance of payments crisis, political upheaval.

The crunch of the impact of what is happening in Ukraine is going to be felt globally in the next 6 months and I suspect there are a few canaries still to drop.

Very likely internal suppression and internal revolt.

China is the biggest of the bunch. It’s going to be a fascinating (detached view) few months. If we think we have it bad here it is going to be astronomically worse else where. Likely winners? I’m guessing the petro economies, Russia excluded.

Not a pleasant picture

[tonyvid]

Evanivitch said:

CrutyRammers said:

I thought the UK had already sent some. It was all over the news back in April.
And escalation? Ukr already sunk a warship with missiles, and has sunk various other naval ships with drones.

Reportedly, but UK stocks of harpoon are approaching end of life and very few available.

I think this was miss-reported at the time, I can't see how they could ever have produced a land based version of Harpoon from the UK quickly. It's not like NLAW which is essentially point 'n' shoot, it needs radar to detect the target, weapon control systems, we don't even have a land launched version etc and hardly enough stocks of the US system for our own ships(if any one has had any dealings with ITAR rules it is an enormous can of worms working with US kit). I think politicians mixed Harpoon up with Maritime Brimstone as an anti-ship system.

[FiF]

tonyvid said:

Evanivitch said:

CrutyRammers said:

I thought the UK had already sent some. It was all over the news back in April.
And escalation? Ukr already sunk a warship with missiles, and has sunk various other naval ships with drones.

Reportedly, but UK stocks of harpoon are approaching end of life and very few available.

I think this was miss-reported at the time, I can't see how they could ever have produced a land based version of Harpoon from the UK quickly. It's not like NLAW which is essentially point 'n' shoot, it needs radar to detect the target, weapon control systems, we don't even have a land launched version etc and hardly enough stocks of the US system for our own ships(if any one has had any dealings with ITAR rules it is an enormous can of worms working with US kit). I think politicians mixed Harpoon up with Maritime Brimstone as an anti-ship system.

Agreed, think it was either mis reported or a bit of wishful thinking. Considering the complex nature of doing this there still may be an element of kite flying an intent to send messages. But that's pure speculation on my part, if it's decided to be done generally amazing when proper military logistics engage gear.

[Evanivitch]

tonyvid said:

Evanivitch said:

CrutyRammers said:

I thought the UK had already sent some. It was all over the news back in April.
And escalation? Ukr already sunk a warship with missiles, and has sunk various other naval ships with drones.

Reportedly, but UK stocks of harpoon are approaching end of life and very few available.

I think this was miss-reported at the time, I can't see how they could ever have produced a land based version of Harpoon from the UK quickly. It's not like NLAW which is essentially point 'n' shoot, it needs radar to detect the target, weapon control systems, we don't even have a land launched version etc and hardly enough stocks of the US system for our own ships(if any one has had any dealings with ITAR rules it is an enormous can of worms working with US kit). I think politicians mixed Harpoon up with Maritime Brimstone as an anti-ship system.

I tend to agree, however Brimstone also wasn't a surface launched weapon until they rigged it up for Ukraine (and now Poland want it too).

[CrutyRammers]

FiF said:

tonyvid said:

Evanivitch said:

CrutyRammers said:

I thought the UK had already sent some. It was all over the news back in April.
And escalation? Ukr already sunk a warship with missiles, and has sunk various other naval ships with drones.

Reportedly, but UK stocks of harpoon are approaching end of life and very few available.

I think this was miss-reported at the time, I can't see how they could ever have produced a land based version of Harpoon from the UK quickly. It's not like NLAW which is essentially point 'n' shoot, it needs radar to detect the target, weapon control systems, we don't even have a land launched version etc and hardly enough stocks of the US system for our own ships(if any one has had any dealings with ITAR rules it is an enormous can of worms working with US kit). I think politicians mixed Harpoon up with Maritime Brimstone as an anti-ship system.

Agreed, think it was either mis reported or a bit of wishful thinking. Considering the complex nature of doing this there still may be an element of kite flying an intent to send messages.

That certainly wouldn't surprise me, there's been plenty of that (wishful thinking and kite flying) going on.
There was something, even if just the threat of something, which put paid to the thoughts of landing at Odessa though it seems? Perhaps the Neptunes were enough for that.

[PRTVR]

This "end of life" of missiles, I really don't think the Ukrainians would care if only 50% worked, better that than not having the option to sink ships or do the manufacturers disable the missiles after a certain time?

[HappyMidget]

British businessman ‘buys warplanes to help Ukraine fight Russia’ https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/british-busin...

[mondeoman]

HappyMidget said:

British businessman ‘buys warplanes to help Ukraine fight Russia’ https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/british-busin...

Calling Dyson and Branson.....

[98elise]

tonyvid said:

Evanivitch said:

CrutyRammers said:

I thought the UK had already sent some. It was all over the news back in April.
And escalation? Ukr already sunk a warship with missiles, and has sunk various other naval ships with drones.

Reportedly, but UK stocks of harpoon are approaching end of life and very few available.

I think this was miss-reported at the time, I can't see how they could ever have produced a land based version of Harpoon from the UK quickly. It's not like NLAW which is essentially point 'n' shoot, it needs radar to detect the target, weapon control systems, we don't even have a land launched version etc and hardly enough stocks of the US system for our own ships(if any one has had any dealings with ITAR rules it is an enormous can of worms working with US kit). I think politicians mixed Harpoon up with Maritime Brimstone as an anti-ship system.

Not my specialisation but harpoon probably doesn't need radar inputs (only coordinates) and the fire control system will be small. We don't have a land lauched system because it's very limited use.

Thats all assumptions based on it having a sub launched and air launched version. Also anti ship missiles tend to be directed to the general area where they then use active search to find the target.

Regardless I doubt they are being given harpoon.

Edited by 98elise on Friday 20th May 10:07

[craigjm]

HappyMidget said:

British businessman ‘buys warplanes to help Ukraine fight Russia’ https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/british-busin...

He probably now needs people to taste his tea and food after having his name and photo put out there like that