Russia invades Ukraine. Volume 2
Discussion
mondeoman said:
TTmonkey said:
Is that phosphur bombing??sisu said:
BikeBikeBIke said:
EddieSteadyGo said:
Doesn't seem to be bothering countries like Israel, who are happy to help them bypass some of the sanctions, for a fee, or countries including those in South America who are happy to trade at increasing levels with Russia, or the very many other countries still happy to buy their oil and gas... including the EU! There is so much hypocrisy about sanctions - and far too much arrogance as to what effect they have imho.
There are some important sanctions, like denying access to much of the US financial system which is no question a huge blow which will have economic consequences for Russia and can't really be replaced. And I referenced already the freezing of their currency reserves. But much of the other stuff is signalling. And I am suggested the effect of some of those sanctions is heavily diluting over time, to the point it causes no real damage or has any real effect, and just becomes self-defeating.
For sure, but this is well understood and sanctions can be tweaked.There are some important sanctions, like denying access to much of the US financial system which is no question a huge blow which will have economic consequences for Russia and can't really be replaced. And I referenced already the freezing of their currency reserves. But much of the other stuff is signalling. And I am suggested the effect of some of those sanctions is heavily diluting over time, to the point it causes no real damage or has any real effect, and just becomes self-defeating.
The biggest economic damage will be from Europe reducing our dependence on Russian fossil fuels and that's going to happen regardless and has nothing to do with sanctions.
On the battle on the ground it is worth noting that the Russians are already trying to take suburban Severodonesk this morning without fully encircling it.
Lets be clear, since May 1st the eastern part of Ukraine has been the main objective and they have had multiple attempts at pincher movements. This should have been something Russia was able to do as they have been there since March 1st and they have an 8 to 1 ratio of men and equipment.
America is sending more equipment, coastal defense missile systems and it ain't stopping.
Russia will plow on but Ukraine? Without fresh bodies Russia will carry on grinding forward.
Hugo Stiglitz said:
Even with more equipment flowing in you need more people to keep the fight going as you are losing more to injury, psychological injury, prisoners and killed.
Russia will plow on but Ukraine? Without fresh bodies Russia will carry on grinding forward.
Ukraine is fully mobilized. They have plenty of manpower. (Much of it being trained or requiring training, but it's available.)Russia will plow on but Ukraine? Without fresh bodies Russia will carry on grinding forward.
BikeBikeBIke said:
Hugo Stiglitz said:
Even with more equipment flowing in you need more people to keep the fight going as you are losing more to injury, psychological injury, prisoners and killed.
Russia will plow on but Ukraine? Without fresh bodies Russia will carry on grinding forward.
Ukraine is fully mobilized. They have plenty of manpower. (Much of it being trained or requiring training, but it's available.)Russia will plow on but Ukraine? Without fresh bodies Russia will carry on grinding forward.
An intercepted call from a soldier to his mother.
Tartan Pixie said:
Pro Russian - Oliver Stone: Vladimir Putin and War in Ukraine - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygAqYC8JOQI
Stone describes Ukraine in recent years as being very similar to what many on here have said about Russia, with journalists being murdered and the corruption between oligarchs and the government. He describes an extreme level of censorship and pressure against anyone expressing pro Russian sentiments in Ukraine. He makes a number of claims that I'd want to fact check but it's interesting because he's expressing a view that's widely held in some circles.
Of course, if Ukranians were really, really bad people, the solution wouldn't be invasion by Russia alone.Stone describes Ukraine in recent years as being very similar to what many on here have said about Russia, with journalists being murdered and the corruption between oligarchs and the government. He describes an extreme level of censorship and pressure against anyone expressing pro Russian sentiments in Ukraine. He makes a number of claims that I'd want to fact check but it's interesting because he's expressing a view that's widely held in some circles.
I don't think many people would argue the average Ukranian is a perfect fit for the Chipping Norton Lib Dem club but they were headed in the right direction.
(I'm not suggesting you weren't already well aware of that.)
Ridgemont said:
The Oliver stone interview is 2 hours long. Care to.point us at the relevant point?
Interviewing Putin starts at 26:24Invasion of Ukraine starts at 50:02
They're mostly talking about Ukraine through to 1:42:41
For future reference, if a video has named chapters you can find the bit you want by:
On desktop - click chapter name to the right of the play button and a chapter menu will appear on the right hand side.
On mobile - use the timestamps in the description.
Hugo Stiglitz said:
Russia will plow on but Ukraine? Without fresh bodies Russia will carry on grinding forward.
Russia will plow on with what?It's got one of the world's oldest populations and a demographic crisis on its hands.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Ru...
Killing and maiming vast numbers of its youth - which it is currently doing - is only going to make it even worse.
BikeBikeBIke said:
Hugo Stiglitz said:
Even with more equipment flowing in you need more people to keep the fight going as you are losing more to injury, psychological injury, prisoners and killed.
Russia will plow on but Ukraine? Without fresh bodies Russia will carry on grinding forward.
Ukraine is fully mobilized. They have plenty of manpower. (Much of it being trained or requiring training, but it's available.)Russia will plow on but Ukraine? Without fresh bodies Russia will carry on grinding forward.
To the point with the idea that Russia has 1,000,000 men waiting to die because they did that in WW2. Well the reality is they are not at War, it is a "special operation" which means if I want to go home then nothing can stop them other than not paying them.
That crest happened 2 weeks ago, they raised the age limit to cover the shortfall, not stop people volunteering.
Ridgemont said:
Tartan Pixie said:
Interesting pair of interviews from Lex Fridman, one pro Russian, one pro Ukrainian. Fridman is Russian born but half Ukrainian and studied in the USA (I think at MIT but don't quote me on that). They're long form interviews 2hrs or so.
<><><>
Pro Russian - Oliver Stone: Vladimir Putin and War in Ukraine - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygAqYC8JOQI
Stone describes Ukraine in recent years as being very similar to what many on here have said about Russia, with journalists being murdered and the corruption between oligarchs and the government. He describes an extreme level of censorship and pressure against anyone expressing pro Russian sentiments in Ukraine. He makes a number of claims that I'd want to fact check but it's interesting because he's expressing a view that's widely held in some circles.
I might disagree with him but it's helped me understand the roots of the conflict as a civil war, something that often gets overlooked since February. He also makes a number of valid points such as his opinion of Victoria Nuland. f
k Victoria Nuland.
<><><>
Pro Ukrainian - Stephen Kotkin: Putin, Stalin, Hitler, Zelenskyy, and War in Ukraine - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2a7CDKqWcZ0
Kotkin is a historian including writing a book on Stalin. His views will chime with many on this thread, some interesting titbits through the interview though he does come across as very America-centric.
The Oliver stone interview is 2 hours long. Care to.point us at the relevant point?<><><>
Pro Russian - Oliver Stone: Vladimir Putin and War in Ukraine - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygAqYC8JOQI
Stone describes Ukraine in recent years as being very similar to what many on here have said about Russia, with journalists being murdered and the corruption between oligarchs and the government. He describes an extreme level of censorship and pressure against anyone expressing pro Russian sentiments in Ukraine. He makes a number of claims that I'd want to fact check but it's interesting because he's expressing a view that's widely held in some circles.
I might disagree with him but it's helped me understand the roots of the conflict as a civil war, something that often gets overlooked since February. He also makes a number of valid points such as his opinion of Victoria Nuland. f
k Victoria Nuland.<><><>
Pro Ukrainian - Stephen Kotkin: Putin, Stalin, Hitler, Zelenskyy, and War in Ukraine - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2a7CDKqWcZ0
Kotkin is a historian including writing a book on Stalin. His views will chime with many on this thread, some interesting titbits through the interview though he does come across as very America-centric.
My understanding is the Ukrainians are being trained on the new kit so there’s a bit of a delay until they can slay the orc again.
Must admit I am missing the videos of them pulverising the orc horde. I have no sympathy for the orcs - they are murdering civilians left right and centre so fk them whether they are conscripts or not.
Our governments need to continue to support them.
Must admit I am missing the videos of them pulverising the orc horde. I have no sympathy for the orcs - they are murdering civilians left right and centre so f
k them whether they are conscripts or not.Our governments need to continue to support them.
Steve vRS said:
sisu said:
An hour ago a Ukrainian Mig29 shot down a Su35 in the sky above Kershon. Air to air kill is a rare thing and I do hope they have a GoPro mounted as this is real Top Gun stuff.
Was it a dogfight or a medium/ long range missile?speedy_thrills said:
Without new onus supplying heavy weapons it looks to me like Russia may end up achieving its current objective.
I only just noticed that this list exists which is an interesting read of the stuff supplied to Ukraine from outside so far. - https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/04/answering-ca...Obviously we don't know the real supply situation, but it is kind of odd how piecemeal and drip fed it seems to be. There's no point being half arsed about it. You may as well pile in as early as possible as fully as possible.
speedy_thrills said:
I think we have to be honest and say Russia are slowly pushing the Ukrainians back now. It's brutal and destructive but they are just inching forward.
Without new onus supplying heavy weapons it looks to me like Russia may end up achieving its current objective.
What is its current objective though? That minor push? Land Bridge to Odessa? Over throwing the regime and installing a puppet government (which was the initial one!).Without new onus supplying heavy weapons it looks to me like Russia may end up achieving its current objective.
This fight is nowhere near over, and the longer it goes on, assuming everything carries on as it is, the stronger ukraine gets and the weaker Russia does.
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