Russia invades Ukraine. Volume 2
Discussion
Quite.
We built massive stores of weapons to stop Russian advances in Europe. Now we have the Ukranians doing it for us. We should give them everything in the arsenal. They should have 1000 Ukrainian pilots in the US training on F16s. There should be 10,000 Ukrainian fitters learning how to fix them. We either use the weapons to kill the Russians now, or we have to build another generation of weapons to kill them in 20 years time.
The US gets a lot of flak for foreign policy, but thank god there are there in this case. They have the resources and the will to take this one on.
We built massive stores of weapons to stop Russian advances in Europe. Now we have the Ukranians doing it for us. We should give them everything in the arsenal. They should have 1000 Ukrainian pilots in the US training on F16s. There should be 10,000 Ukrainian fitters learning how to fix them. We either use the weapons to kill the Russians now, or we have to build another generation of weapons to kill them in 20 years time.
The US gets a lot of flak for foreign policy, but thank god there are there in this case. They have the resources and the will to take this one on.
TTmonkey said:
Every single weapon system needed should now be delivered into Ukraine.
The ongoing attrition of Russian military resources, and the long term sanctions, could see this make Russia an expired force everywhere.
Every NLAW we have should go. Every javelin. There’s no other target on the horizon that we’d need an ATGM reserve for is there? Use them all. Buy more. Send them too.
They also need to be able to hit deeper into the supply chain to stall the Russians now. They need long range guided weapons. They need to hit more than 50 miles into the rear.
The Ukrainians need the ability to take the war away Tom the front line.
One of the best posts on here.The ongoing attrition of Russian military resources, and the long term sanctions, could see this make Russia an expired force everywhere.
Every NLAW we have should go. Every javelin. There’s no other target on the horizon that we’d need an ATGM reserve for is there? Use them all. Buy more. Send them too.
They also need to be able to hit deeper into the supply chain to stall the Russians now. They need long range guided weapons. They need to hit more than 50 miles into the rear.
The Ukrainians need the ability to take the war away Tom the front line.
Hit them harder, and harder, until there is just no supply line left.
Sway said:
liner33 said:
Sway said:
They're still getting Russian oil and gas... That's irrelevant.
Hardly irrelevantOn May 4, European Commission president Ursula von der Leyen announced the European Union would seek to ban all imports of Russian crude oil within six months and ban petroleum product imports by the end of the year*
Unfortunately this will be extremely hard to implement so the EU needs to the conflict to end before they really need to implement any sanctions
- I remain unconvinced the EU has any intention of banning Russian imports whatever happens in Ukraine
TTmonkey said:
Every single weapon system needed should now be delivered into Ukraine.
The ongoing attrition of Russian military resources, and the long term sanctions, could see this make Russia an expired force everywhere.
Every NLAW we have should go. Every javelin. There’s no other target on the horizon that we’d need an ATGM reserve for is there? Use them all. Buy more. Send them too.
They also need to be able to hit deeper into the supply chain to stall the Russians now. They need long range guided weapons. They need to hit more than 50 miles into the rear.
The Ukrainians need the ability to take the war away Tom the front line.
Guess we have to ask why that isn’t happening? The ongoing attrition of Russian military resources, and the long term sanctions, could see this make Russia an expired force everywhere.
Every NLAW we have should go. Every javelin. There’s no other target on the horizon that we’d need an ATGM reserve for is there? Use them all. Buy more. Send them too.
They also need to be able to hit deeper into the supply chain to stall the Russians now. They need long range guided weapons. They need to hit more than 50 miles into the rear.
The Ukrainians need the ability to take the war away Tom the front line.
craigjm said:
TTmonkey said:
Every single weapon system needed should now be delivered into Ukraine.
The ongoing attrition of Russian military resources, and the long term sanctions, could see this make Russia an expired force everywhere.
Every NLAW we have should go. Every javelin. There’s no other target on the horizon that we’d need an ATGM reserve for is there? Use them all. Buy more. Send them too.
They also need to be able to hit deeper into the supply chain to stall the Russians now. They need long range guided weapons. They need to hit more than 50 miles into the rear.
The Ukrainians need the ability to take the war away Tom the front line.
Guess we have to ask why that isn’t happening? The ongoing attrition of Russian military resources, and the long term sanctions, could see this make Russia an expired force everywhere.
Every NLAW we have should go. Every javelin. There’s no other target on the horizon that we’d need an ATGM reserve for is there? Use them all. Buy more. Send them too.
They also need to be able to hit deeper into the supply chain to stall the Russians now. They need long range guided weapons. They need to hit more than 50 miles into the rear.
The Ukrainians need the ability to take the war away Tom the front line.
what I think is happening is we are supplying things that are near the end of life or can be easily replaced or we have a good stock of.
The NLAWs were supplied over quite a few years so easy enough to replace, things like tanks I don't think we make them anymore so impossible to replace.
PRTVR said:
craigjm said:
TTmonkey said:
Every single weapon system needed should now be delivered into Ukraine.
The ongoing attrition of Russian military resources, and the long term sanctions, could see this make Russia an expired force everywhere.
Every NLAW we have should go. Every javelin. There’s no other target on the horizon that we’d need an ATGM reserve for is there? Use them all. Buy more. Send them too.
They also need to be able to hit deeper into the supply chain to stall the Russians now. They need long range guided weapons. They need to hit more than 50 miles into the rear.
The Ukrainians need the ability to take the war away Tom the front line.
Guess we have to ask why that isn’t happening? The ongoing attrition of Russian military resources, and the long term sanctions, could see this make Russia an expired force everywhere.
Every NLAW we have should go. Every javelin. There’s no other target on the horizon that we’d need an ATGM reserve for is there? Use them all. Buy more. Send them too.
They also need to be able to hit deeper into the supply chain to stall the Russians now. They need long range guided weapons. They need to hit more than 50 miles into the rear.
The Ukrainians need the ability to take the war away Tom the front line.
what I think is happening is we are supplying things that are near the end of life or can be easily replaced or we have a good stock of.
The NLAWs were supplied over quite a few years so easy enough to replace, things like tanks I don't think we make them anymore so impossible to replace.
TTmonkey said:
Every single weapon system needed should now be delivered into Ukraine.
The ongoing attrition of Russian military resources, and the long term sanctions, could see this make Russia an expired force everywhere.
Every NLAW we have should go. Every javelin. There’s no other target on the horizon that we’d need an ATGM reserve for is there? Use them all. Buy more. Send them too.
They also need to be able to hit deeper into the supply chain to stall the Russians now. They need long range guided weapons. They need to hit more than 50 miles into the rear.
The Ukrainians need the ability to take the war away Tom the front line.
It feels like we are actually very close to this with America now sending long range missile systems to Ukraine.The ongoing attrition of Russian military resources, and the long term sanctions, could see this make Russia an expired force everywhere.
Every NLAW we have should go. Every javelin. There’s no other target on the horizon that we’d need an ATGM reserve for is there? Use them all. Buy more. Send them too.
They also need to be able to hit deeper into the supply chain to stall the Russians now. They need long range guided weapons. They need to hit more than 50 miles into the rear.
The Ukrainians need the ability to take the war away Tom the front line.
They will soon be able to hit targets deep in the Donbas AND Crimea which will be a game changer, those 1000s of Russian troops that are stationed in makeshift army bases in these areas can now be targeted for the first time
Register1 said:
TTmonkey said:
Every single weapon system needed should now be delivered into Ukraine.
The ongoing attrition of Russian military resources, and the long term sanctions, could see this make Russia an expired force everywhere.
Every NLAW we have should go. Every javelin. There’s no other target on the horizon that we’d need an ATGM reserve for is there? Use them all. Buy more. Send them too.
They also need to be able to hit deeper into the supply chain to stall the Russians now. They need long range guided weapons. They need to hit more than 50 miles into the rear.
The Ukrainians need the ability to take the war away Tom the front line.
One of the best posts on here.The ongoing attrition of Russian military resources, and the long term sanctions, could see this make Russia an expired force everywhere.
Every NLAW we have should go. Every javelin. There’s no other target on the horizon that we’d need an ATGM reserve for is there? Use them all. Buy more. Send them too.
They also need to be able to hit deeper into the supply chain to stall the Russians now. They need long range guided weapons. They need to hit more than 50 miles into the rear.
The Ukrainians need the ability to take the war away Tom the front line.
Hit them harder, and harder, until there is just no supply line left.
Now is not the time to slacken off - on the contrary, it's the time to rachet it up to the highest level.
Vasco said:
Register1 said:
TTmonkey said:
Every single weapon system needed should now be delivered into Ukraine.
The ongoing attrition of Russian military resources, and the long term sanctions, could see this make Russia an expired force everywhere.
Every NLAW we have should go. Every javelin. There’s no other target on the horizon that we’d need an ATGM reserve for is there? Use them all. Buy more. Send them too.
They also need to be able to hit deeper into the supply chain to stall the Russians now. They need long range guided weapons. They need to hit more than 50 miles into the rear.
The Ukrainians need the ability to take the war away Tom the front line.
One of the best posts on here.The ongoing attrition of Russian military resources, and the long term sanctions, could see this make Russia an expired force everywhere.
Every NLAW we have should go. Every javelin. There’s no other target on the horizon that we’d need an ATGM reserve for is there? Use them all. Buy more. Send them too.
They also need to be able to hit deeper into the supply chain to stall the Russians now. They need long range guided weapons. They need to hit more than 50 miles into the rear.
The Ukrainians need the ability to take the war away Tom the front line.
Hit them harder, and harder, until there is just no supply line left.
Now is not the time to slacken off - on the contrary, it's the time to rachet it up to the highest level.
craigjm said:
TTmonkey said:
Every single weapon system needed should now be delivered into Ukraine.
The ongoing attrition of Russian military resources, and the long term sanctions, could see this make Russia an expired force everywhere.
Every NLAW we have should go. Every javelin. There’s no other target on the horizon that we’d need an ATGM reserve for is there? Use them all. Buy more. Send them too.
They also need to be able to hit deeper into the supply chain to stall the Russians now. They need long range guided weapons. They need to hit more than 50 miles into the rear.
The Ukrainians need the ability to take the war away Tom the front line.
Guess we have to ask why that isn’t happening? The ongoing attrition of Russian military resources, and the long term sanctions, could see this make Russia an expired force everywhere.
Every NLAW we have should go. Every javelin. There’s no other target on the horizon that we’d need an ATGM reserve for is there? Use them all. Buy more. Send them too.
They also need to be able to hit deeper into the supply chain to stall the Russians now. They need long range guided weapons. They need to hit more than 50 miles into the rear.
The Ukrainians need the ability to take the war away Tom the front line.
And then there's the group that just aren't, yes you Germany in particular, absolutely shameful. I really hope the world remembers and punishes you commercially.
Germany has actually sent no significant shipments since March and is scaling back support
FiF said:
Thing is we're in two tribes here, there's the majority group that want to supply support to Ukraine and are doing so.
And then there's the group that just aren't, yes you Germany in particular, absolutely shameful. I really hope the world remembers and punishes you commercially.
...
They won't. Ursula will give Ukraine billions of EU money to rebuild and Germany will pick up all the contracts. Watch this space.And then there's the group that just aren't, yes you Germany in particular, absolutely shameful. I really hope the world remembers and punishes you commercially.
...
fblm said:
FiF said:
Thing is we're in two tribes here, there's the majority group that want to supply support to Ukraine and are doing so.
And then there's the group that just aren't, yes you Germany in particular, absolutely shameful. I really hope the world remembers and punishes you commercially.
...
They won't. Ursula will give Ukraine billions of EU money to rebuild and Germany will pick up all the contracts. Watch this space.And then there's the group that just aren't, yes you Germany in particular, absolutely shameful. I really hope the world remembers and punishes you commercially.
...
PRTVR said:
craigjm said:
TTmonkey said:
Every single weapon system needed should now be delivered into Ukraine.
The ongoing attrition of Russian military resources, and the long term sanctions, could see this make Russia an expired force everywhere.
Every NLAW we have should go. Every javelin. There’s no other target on the horizon that we’d need an ATGM reserve for is there? Use them all. Buy more. Send them too.
They also need to be able to hit deeper into the supply chain to stall the Russians now. They need long range guided weapons. They need to hit more than 50 miles into the rear.
The Ukrainians need the ability to take the war away Tom the front line.
Guess we have to ask why that isn’t happening? The ongoing attrition of Russian military resources, and the long term sanctions, could see this make Russia an expired force everywhere.
Every NLAW we have should go. Every javelin. There’s no other target on the horizon that we’d need an ATGM reserve for is there? Use them all. Buy more. Send them too.
They also need to be able to hit deeper into the supply chain to stall the Russians now. They need long range guided weapons. They need to hit more than 50 miles into the rear.
The Ukrainians need the ability to take the war away Tom the front line.
what I think is happening is we are supplying things that are near the end of life or can be easily replaced or we have a good stock of.
The NLAWs were supplied over quite a few years so easy enough to replace, things like tanks I don't think we make them anymore so impossible to replace.
We have other stuff. Apaches with over a dozen hellfire missiles per flight. Air to ground missiles from our fighter jets. Advanced artillery, and then the tanks and armoured vehicles that have their own way of smashing Russian armour.
If Ukraine destroys half of Russias ‘modern’ hardware Russia won’t be taking on NATO countries with anything other than Nukes. This could be the last time Russia invades a neighbour country in the next century , or even ever.
They won’t have the ability to rearm, and we can ensure that they never have the ability to buy modern systems and components from the west ever again either.
As they lose more and more men, the truth will out and their armed forces will face a massive recruitment and retainment problem as they will know the west can dice their armour into scrap and obliterate their hardware.
All they have of strength now is long range dumb artillery. They are hitting fields with hundreds of rounds of shells while the Ukrainians are dropping first shots directly onto hardware and command centres. And it’s going to get worst for them.
The current advance through Donbas is actually making them more vulnerable. You draw the enemy into over extending and stretching their supply lines and air cover. This is what I think is happening now. As the west assembles it’s long range artillery and trains the Ukrainians, the Russians extend into the country. Let them advance, and then drop the lot on them.
FiF said:
Thing is we're in two tribes here, there's the majority group that want to supply support to Ukraine and are doing so.
And then there's the group that just aren't, yes you Germany in particular, absolutely shameful. I really hope the world remembers and punishes you commercially.
Germany has actually sent no significant shipments since March and is scaling back support
You do know that Germany doesn't actually really have anything to give, thanks to all the cutbacks?And then there's the group that just aren't, yes you Germany in particular, absolutely shameful. I really hope the world remembers and punishes you commercially.
Germany has actually sent no significant shipments since March and is scaling back support
What it actually has done is for example give stuff to Poland so Poland can send stuff Ukraine can actually use. Germany has also for example sent artillery but it requires six weeks training. They've also sent Matador AT weapons.
By the way, the telegraph article rips directly from a German newspaper which is basically high on hyperbole, low on fact and completely anti the sitting government. There was a really good explainer on Reddit a few days ago which had the original source and a lot of germans commenting on it (who also acknowledge the clusterf
k of German response and are very angry about it).However - yet again the singling out of Germany is very.. odd, even if i personally think Scholz and his party are up to their arses in backhanders, and hopefully there are some decent investigative journalists hot on it.
vonuber said:
You do know that Germany doesn't actually really have anything to give, thanks to all the cutbacks?
What it actually has done is for example give stuff to Poland so Poland can send stuff Ukraine can actually use. Germany has also for example sent artillery but it requires six weeks training. They've also sent Matador AT weapons.
By the way, the telegraph article rips directly from a German newspaper which is basically high on hyperbole, low on fact and completely anti the sitting government. There was a really good explainer on Reddit a few days ago which had the original source and a lot of germans commenting on it (who also acknowledge the clusterfk of German response and are very angry about it).
However - yet again the singling out of Germany is very.. odd, even if i personally think Scholz and his party are up to their arses in backhanders, and hopefully there are some decent investigative journalists hot on it.
Yeah, I'm not buying the narrative that Germany and France are bad guys here.What it actually has done is for example give stuff to Poland so Poland can send stuff Ukraine can actually use. Germany has also for example sent artillery but it requires six weeks training. They've also sent Matador AT weapons.
By the way, the telegraph article rips directly from a German newspaper which is basically high on hyperbole, low on fact and completely anti the sitting government. There was a really good explainer on Reddit a few days ago which had the original source and a lot of germans commenting on it (who also acknowledge the clusterf
k of German response and are very angry about it).However - yet again the singling out of Germany is very.. odd, even if i personally think Scholz and his party are up to their arses in backhanders, and hopefully there are some decent investigative journalists hot on it.
The narrative assumes Germany *want* to remain addicted to Russian energy. It also assumes Germany and France are negotiating away Ukranian land. I think that's nonsense. If Russia's fooled into a starting position of X the end position is X - loads. If G + F get Putin to open the door a crack Zelensky may be able to bash it open with a way better deal.
Maybe I'll be proved wrong, but it's too early to say.
If I was looking for a European Quisling it would be Hungary.
BikeBikeBIke said:
If I was looking for a European Quisling it would be Hungary.
Yes, or Italy, or Spain, or.. lot's of other European countries have done fk all, yet for some reason people have a hard on for Germany who is doing something, however compromised.And let's not even mention India, or China, or..
...Africa.
It's amazing how many people with Twitter accounts in Africa (and India for that matter) openly support Putin. Their reasoning behind their position is because the British and West in general are supplying weapons to Ukraine, and Britain and the West previously colonised their countries.
It really is that simple. They are willing to support mad Vlad slaughtering civilians because the west is against him.
It's amazing how many people with Twitter accounts in Africa (and India for that matter) openly support Putin. Their reasoning behind their position is because the British and West in general are supplying weapons to Ukraine, and Britain and the West previously colonised their countries.
It really is that simple. They are willing to support mad Vlad slaughtering civilians because the west is against him.
Cobnapint said:
...Africa.
It's amazing how many people with Twitter accounts in Africa (and India for that matter) openly support Putin. Their reasoning behind their position is because the British and West in general are supplying weapons to Ukraine, and Britain and the West previously colonised their countries.
It really is that simple. They are willing to support mad Vlad slaughtering civilians because the west is against him.
Slaughtering civilians and stopping grain being shipped, which could result in many more (African) deaths than the war itself.It's amazing how many people with Twitter accounts in Africa (and India for that matter) openly support Putin. Their reasoning behind their position is because the British and West in general are supplying weapons to Ukraine, and Britain and the West previously colonised their countries.
It really is that simple. They are willing to support mad Vlad slaughtering civilians because the west is against him.
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