Russia invades Ukraine. Volume 2

[Sway]

Mrr T said:

Sway said:

Mrr T said:

Sway said:

They've finally stepped up to the plate, and as you say have realised they're getting fked by Russia irrespective.

They're still playing the game of only supplying decent kit in conjunction with other nations, so they can distribute 'blame' in the eyes of Russia for some unfathomable reason - but at least they've stopped sending cold War era kit that was so out of date and dangerously stored that German personnel could only enter the facilities with full PPE containment suits...

I would suggest this is pretty modern kit.

https://mobile.twitter.com/oleksiireznikov/status/...

Yes, and it's stuff like that I'm referring to.

Notice how the comment states 'finally part of the arsenal' - even then this delivery iirc was only agreed under duress as the Dutch were willing to send all the ones they could spare, but it wasn't enough for a full/useful 'battery'.

German provided 7 out of 108 in service. The Dutch 5 according the this they operate in batteries of 3 so 4 batteries.

https://www.turbulenttimes.co.uk/news/front-page/u...

These is very modern kit and much better than the Russians. While the UK is providing other equipment it seems our military has almost no use able heavy mobile artillery. So we are to providing 60 year old reconditioned ex Belgium kit which is no better or even worst than the Russians.

You're not saying anything other than what I've already said...

Yes, the UK doesn't have much in the way of heavy artillery. It has been sending very modern, very capable kit from man portable through to highly destructive for months and months though. Including things like Starstreak/Stormer and Brimstone.

We've also sent m270 as has been noted.

Whilst we were sending javelin, NLAW and starstreak, Germany was supplying Strela...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/03/04/...

Now, finally, Germany is starting to step up to the plate. However, as noted, pretty much solely when in 'partnership' with someone else.

[saaby93]

EddieSteadyGo said:

This is an interesting piece of news.

Kaliningrad is looking like an extremely good pressure point - far better than many of the other sanctions which have had little effect on the Kremlin. Here they instructed Lukashenko to say something, which wasn't as provocative as the Kremlin saying it themselves, but we know exactly they wanted to signal this.

It's like Canada and the confiscation of Russian assets - the US using Canada to signal what's coming if the Russians don't take heed.

Kaliningrad is so effective as it directly affects Russian citizens, which then makes the Russian regime look impotent, which they hate.



https://twitter.com/RWApodcast/status/154071666940...

kaliningrad isnt isolated though - there are just a few goods that arent allowed to pass through

[FourWheelDrift]

EddieSteadyGo said:

This is an interesting piece of news.

Kaliningrad is looking like an extremely good pressure point - far better than many of the other sanctions which have had little effect on the Kremlin. Here they instructed Lukashenko to say something, which wasn't as provocative as the Kremlin saying it themselves, but we know exactly they wanted to signal this.

It's like Canada and the confiscation of Russian assets - the US using Canada to signal what's coming if the Russians don't take heed.

Kaliningrad is so effective as it directly affects Russian citizens, which then makes the Russian regime look impotent, which they hate.



https://twitter.com/RWApodcast/status/154071666940...

Instead of stopping Russian trains entering Lithuania to Kaliningrad all they have to do is take up the rails for the last half mile it's in Lithuania. It's their tracks, in their country they can do anything they want with them. It's no different to the no fly zone for Russian airliners.

[EddieSteadyGo]

saaby93 said:

EddieSteadyGo said:

This is an interesting piece of news.

Kaliningrad is looking like an extremely good pressure point - far better than many of the other sanctions which have had little effect on the Kremlin. Here they instructed Lukashenko to say something, which wasn't as provocative as the Kremlin saying it themselves, but we know exactly they wanted to signal this.

It's like Canada and the confiscation of Russian assets - the US using Canada to signal what's coming if the Russians don't take heed.

Kaliningrad is so effective as it directly affects Russian citizens, which then makes the Russian regime look impotent, which they hate.



https://twitter.com/RWApodcast/status/154071666940...

kaliningrad isnt isolated though - there are just a few goods that arent allowed to pass through

It doesn't need to be completely isolated - the Russians have the option of bringing in goods via its seaports. And the sanctions certainly are not a blockade.

But, crucially, the effect of the sanctions has caused panic buying and therefore shortages in Kaliningrad and, as I said earlier, that makes the Russian regime look impotent. And impotent regimes are vulnerable to being overthrown, which is why they are getting so agitated.

[EddieSteadyGo]

FourWheelDrift said:

Instead of stopping Russian trains entering Lithuania to Kaliningrad all they have to do is take up the rails for the last half mile it's in Lithuania. It's their tracks, in their country they can do anything they want with them. It's no different to the no fly zone for Russian airliners.

I think that would be a further escalation - so far Lithuania is still allowing a high/ish proportion of goods to still transit into Kaliningrad. But the reaction from the Kremlin to the situation in Kaliningrad has been *far* more severe than for many of the other sanctions, which it mostly brushed off.

[Mrr T]

MOTORVATOR said:

What on earth are you on about? UK are the first to be providing M270 amongst other things And what use do you think short to medium range artillery would be to the defence of an island nation and why would you expect us to possess much of it?

Actually its likely the US will provide the M270 first, the UK has promised 3 but I do not have been delivered so far.

Artillery is the back bone of any army. So why would the UK not have any because its an island. If being an island mattered why have tanks or even why have an army at all.

Since the Panzerhaubitze 2000 has a range of 38km and up to 60km with assisted munitions I would not regard it as short or medium range.

[PRTVR]

Mrr T said:

MOTORVATOR said:

What on earth are you on about? UK are the first to be providing M270 amongst other things And what use do you think short to medium range artillery would be to the defence of an island nation and why would you expect us to possess much of it?

Actually its likely the US will provide the M270 first, the UK has promised 3 but I do not have been delivered so far.

Artillery is the back bone of any army. So why would the UK not have any because its an island. If being an island mattered why have tanks or even why have an army at all.

Since the Panzerhaubitze 2000 has a range of 38km and up to 60km with assisted munitions I would not regard it as short or medium range.

I think we have it just not in numbers that would allow large donations to Ukrainian , some is tied up with troops in the Baltic states, ready for use.

[MOTORVATOR]

EddieSteadyGo said:

FourWheelDrift said:

Instead of stopping Russian trains entering Lithuania to Kaliningrad all they have to do is take up the rails for the last half mile it's in Lithuania. It's their tracks, in their country they can do anything they want with them. It's no different to the no fly zone for Russian airliners.

I think that would be a further escalation - so far Lithuania is still allowing a high/ish proportion of goods to still transit into Kaliningrad. But the reaction from the Kremlin to the situation in Kaliningrad has been *far* more severe than for many of the other sanctions, which it mostly brushed off.

Keep an eye open for Moldova as they take up EU sanctions as well. Tass is already getting noisy about that.

Russian communities in Svalbard not getting Russian specific supplies was the first, then Kalingrad and now Transnistria is going to make Putin a very unhappy bunny.

[MOTORVATOR]

Mrr T said:

MOTORVATOR said:

What on earth are you on about? UK are the first to be providing M270 amongst other things And what use do you think short to medium range artillery would be to the defence of an island nation and why would you expect us to possess much of it?

Actually its likely the US will provide the M270 first, the UK has promised 3 but I do not have been delivered so far.

Artillery is the back bone of any army. So why would the UK not have any because its an island. If being an island mattered why have tanks or even why have an army at all.

Since the Panzerhaubitze 2000 has a range of 38km and up to 60km with assisted munitions I would not regard it as short or medium range.

I never said we would not have any. As a country having a load of artillery on our borders that can only fire missiles into the sea is rather pointless for defence wouldn't you think? If we go expeditionary with our forces it would be part of a greater alliance with complementary forces.

[CrutyRammers]

Mrr T said:

MOTORVATOR said:

What on earth are you on about? UK are the first to be providing M270 amongst other things And what use do you think short to medium range artillery would be to the defence of an island nation and why would you expect us to possess much of it?

Actually its likely the US will provide the M270 first, the UK has promised 3 but I do not have been delivered so far.

Artillery is the back bone of any army. So why would the UK not have any because its an island. If being an island mattered why have tanks or even why have an army at all.

Because resources are limited and we can't have everything. Being an island means we spend more on the navy and airforce. Sheesh.

[RichFN2]

Possibly the result of the recently acquired HIMARS, as what is reported to be an ammunition depot in Svatove (Luhansk oblast). This is rather significant as Svatove is 60km away from the front line and deep into Russian held territory. Also not that far from the Russian border with a direct road into Russia.

https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1540709...

[rxe]

BikeBikeBIke said:

Well, all the allies helped themselves to German stuff post WW2. So there's precedent to taking stuff from brutal aggressors and occupiers.

I just think it needs serious thought and some legal basis.

Edited by BikeBikeBIke on Friday 24th June 22:51

We just need to apply a variant of an unexplained wealth order to all of the individuals and entities sanctioned. Including the Russian Central Bank. Where did they get the money from, both in the simplest case, and also in the case of their seed capital for their ventures. If they can’t prove that they obtained the money via legitimate sources, then they lose it.

Put the onus on them to prove that it is squeaky clean, give them 6 months to do so, then stick it in a reconstructions fund for the Ukranians. I’d even go further - give countries a direct incentive to chase down and sanction Russians by allocating that money to reconstruction efforts by companies within that country. So we sanction x billion, everyone agrees that some percentage of that will be spent with British companies to supply stuff for reconstruction.

I’d actually extend it to every Russian passport holder in the UK if we had enough people to do the investigation.

[anonymous-user]

Bannock said:

Putin will simply order them to work, or be arrested/killed. He has no red lines. This is how Stalin built the Soviet Union, slave labour of their own population. They will do it again.

Google Norilsk...

[PRTVR]

RichFN2 said:

Possibly the result of the recently acquired HIMARS, as what is reported to be an ammunition depot in Svatove (Luhansk oblast). This is rather significant as Svatove is 60km away from the front line and deep into Russian held territory. Also not that far from the Russian border with a direct road into Russia.

https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1540709...

It could have been an accident, strange things happen when people don't use the handrail when using the stairs.

[king arthur]

EddieSteadyGo said:

It doesn't need to be completely isolated - the Russians have the option of bringing in goods via its seaports.

Not in winter they don't. Kaliningrad is Russia's only warm water port. The others freeze over.

[Sway]

Mrr T said:

MOTORVATOR said:

What on earth are you on about? UK are the first to be providing M270 amongst other things And what use do you think short to medium range artillery would be to the defence of an island nation and why would you expect us to possess much of it?

Actually its likely the US will provide the M270 first, the UK has promised 3 but I do not have been delivered so far.

Artillery is the back bone of any army. So why would the UK not have any because its an island. If being an island mattered why have tanks or even why have an army at all.

Since the Panzerhaubitze 2000 has a range of 38km and up to 60km with assisted munitions I would not regard it as short or medium range.

The UK has 46 M270.

We've also not 'promised three' - the BBC 'believe' the initial delivery would be three units.

Seems time for this graph again...

[vonuber]

Sway said:

The UK has 46 M270.

We've also not 'promised three' - the BBC 'believe' the initial delivery would be three units.

Seems time for this graph again...

The official list of things sent by Germany includes hospitals, trucks, ammunition , tents, fitst aid kits etc.

It's not just the big stuff they need, they need everything. And Germany has been supplying that as well - but its not as newsworthy I guess.

[PRTVR]

A game of hide and seek, is a lot more difficult when the opposition has a drone.

[RichFN2]

PRTVR said:

A game of hide and seek, is a lot more difficult when the opposition has a drone.

FFS what numb nut returns to a building that has just been shelled multiple times with pinpoint accuracy!!

All they had to do was keep going but nope they decided to go back inside

Although if the rumours are true most of the Russian troops are poor conscripts who spend the whole time off their face on drink and drug's, possibly due to being raped and abused in the army barracks

[isaldiri]

rxe said:

I’d actually extend it to every Russian passport holder in the UK if we had enough people to do the investigation.

Excellent idea. Should it be before or after interning every russian passport holder in the UK first before they can prove that they are 'squeaky clean' though.....?