Russia invades Ukraine. Volume 2

[Sway]

vonuber said:

Sway said:

The UK has 46 M270.

We've also not 'promised three' - the BBC 'believe' the initial delivery would be three units.

Seems time for this graph again...

The official list of things sent by Germany includes hospitals, trucks, ammunition , tents, fitst aid kits etc.

It's not just the big stuff they need, they need everything. And Germany has been supplying that as well - but its not as newsworthy I guess.

Yes yes, it's not as newsworthy but everyone else has been sending that stuff too.

Look, I know it's embarrassing, having senior politicians so obviously in the pocket of the Russians. Being called out as promising some, but delivering little (or ineffective, or unwanted) in reality. Delaying sanctions and ensuring there are mechanisms around them because you're so utterly beholden to Russian gas and the economy is everything. Actively blocking German arms firms from selling kit, and lying about why. Refusing to delay closure or restart nuclear power, despite the industry being clear it's entirely feasible.

Yes, finally Germany is actually doing something genuinely very useful in not just treating Ukrainian casualties, but that could actually help them retake their sovereign territory - but please, stop the excuses they've been piss poor to date.

[philv]

Sway said:

vonuber said:

Sway said:

The UK has 46 M270.

We've also not 'promised three' - the BBC 'believe' the initial delivery would be three units.

Seems time for this graph again...

The official list of things sent by Germany includes hospitals, trucks, ammunition , tents, fitst aid kits etc.

It's not just the big stuff they need, they need everything. And Germany has been supplying that as well - but its not as newsworthy I guess.

Yes yes, it's not as newsworthy but everyone else has been sending that stuff too.

Look, I know it's embarrassing, having senior politicians so obviously in the pocket of the Russians. Being called out as promising some, but delivering little (or ineffective, or unwanted) in reality. Delaying sanctions and ensuring there are mechanisms around them because you're so utterly beholden to Russian gas and the economy is everything. Actively blocking German arms firms from selling kit, and lying about why. Refusing to delay closure or restart nuclear power, despite the industry being clear it's entirely feasible.

Yes, finally Germany is actually doing something genuinely very useful in not just treating Ukrainian casualties, but that could actually help them retake their sovereign territory - but please, stop the excuses they've been piss poor to date.

Yes, and as they kick started a war that world wide killed 70 -80 million not too long ago, with behavior similar to that of Russia and much much worse, you'd think they might have a little bit more self awareness to do the right thing.

Selfish feckers.

Edited by philv on Saturday 25th June 20:51

Edited by philv on Saturday 25th June 20:58

[PRTVR]

There has been talk of the MLRS being used mainly to take out the Russian equivalent, this video shows the destruction of a missile launcher with a impressive fire but don't think this is a MLRS as there is not enough damage .

[Mrr T]

CrutyRammers said:

Mrr T said:

MOTORVATOR said:

What on earth are you on about? UK are the first to be providing M270 amongst other things And what use do you think short to medium range artillery would be to the defence of an island nation and why would you expect us to possess much of it?

Actually its likely the US will provide the M270 first, the UK has promised 3 but I do not have been delivered so far.

Artillery is the back bone of any army. So why would the UK not have any because its an island. If being an island mattered why have tanks or even why have an army at all.

Because resources are limited and we can't have everything. Being an island means we spend more on the navy and airforce. Sheesh.

You should discuss it with the MOD who are spending a lot on the AR90 replacement. It just will not be ready till now I believe 2029.

https://www.defensenews.com/land/2020/07/29/britis...

[BikeBikeBIke]

sisu said:

Having an engine fail on one side of a multi engine plane during take off is not the best, but you have options, theoretically it could fly on 1 if it was not overloaded. But it would seem that they were not able to shut the engines off or contain the fire and your fuel is in the wings. So this was not survivable.


Expect to see more of these over the next year and why countries are not allowing Russians to fly over them.

Russia seem to be claiming there were survivors. Unlikely from the video.

[CrutyRammers]

Mrr T said:

You should discuss it with the MOD who are spending a lot on the AR90 replacement. It just will not be ready till now I believe 2029.

https://www.defensenews.com/land/2020/07/29/britis...

What on earth is your point?

[vonuber]

philv said:

Yes, and as they kick started a war that world wide killed 70 -80 million not too long ago, with behavior similar to that of Russia and much much worse, you'd think they might have a little bit more self awareness to do the right thing.

Selfish feckers.

The war is part of the reason why though, especially as people keep reminding them despite it being 80 years ago.
But we've had this discussion, including ignoring the lack of Italian and others effort etc so bleh.

[TTmonkey]

PRTVR said:

A game of hide and seek, is a lot more difficult when the opposition has a drone.

It’s a funny old thing to witness.

A few months ago at the start of this, I posted a link to a video that dared to show, in passing and not in close up, images of a dead Russian soldier near a tank. You couldn’t see much, other than the fact that it was a body lying in the street,

I was heavily criticised with cry’s of ‘NSFW’, and demands of details and warnings of the link content . Like war shouldn’t show death. My post was removed by mods and I was sent an email saying I had broken site rules.

Now we watch a video of four men carrying an injured colleague, trying their best to evacuate this person, using a blanket as a stretcher, and they get hunted down in ‘real time’ by artillery, they refuse to leave him, to run and scatter, Without doubt, it ends with them being hit and probably shredded by shrapnel. They may be the enemy, but they are probably scared and unsure why they are there. Under paid, abused, and little more than human waste. They may be murderers, rapists, looters, or just scared mummies boys.

And no one gives a fek.

Not saying I do much either. But it shows how we change.

[Sway]

vonuber said:

philv said:

Yes, and as they kick started a war that world wide killed 70 -80 million not too long ago, with behavior similar to that of Russia and much much worse, you'd think they might have a little bit more self awareness to do the right thing.

Selfish feckers.

The war is part of the reason why though, especially as people keep reminding them despite it being 80 years ago.
But we've had this discussion, including ignoring the lack of Italian and others effort etc so bleh.

World War 2 is why the German government repeatedly lied about Rheinmetall's ability to sell the Ukrainians kit, whilst blocking export licences?

Blimey.

[MOTORVATOR]

CrutyRammers said:

Mrr T said:

You should discuss it with the MOD who are spending a lot on the AR90 replacement. It just will not be ready till now I believe 2029.

https://www.defensenews.com/land/2020/07/29/britis...

What on earth is your point?

Whatever it is I don't think he bothered to read the last part of his article.

[PRTVR]

TTmonkey said:

It’s a funny old thing to witness.

A few months ago at the start of this, I posted a link to a video that dared to show, in passing and not in close up, images of a dead Russian soldier near a tank. You couldn’t see much, other than the fact that it was a body lying in the street,

I was heavily criticised with cry’s of ‘NSFW’, and demands of details and warnings of the link content . Like war shouldn’t show death. My post was removed by mods and I was sent an email saying I had broken site rules.

Now we watch a video of four men carrying an injured colleague, trying their best to evacuate this person, using a blanket as a stretcher, and they get hunted down in ‘real time’ by artillery, they refuse to leave him, to run and scatter, Without doubt, it ends with them being hit and probably shredded by shrapnel. They may be the enemy, but they are probably scared and unsure why they are there. Under paid, abused, and little more than human waste. They may be murderers, rapists, looters, or just scared mummies boys.

And no one gives a fek.

Not saying I do much either. But it shows how we change.

Have we changed?
I avoid anything that is obviously graphic in nature, who knows what happened to them ? I thought they would be dead after the first hit but no they kept moving around so who knows ?

[TTmonkey]

PRTVR said:

Have we changed?
I avoid anything that is obviously graphic in nature, who knows what happened to them ? I thought they would be dead after the first hit but no they kept moving around so who knows ?

Pretty sure the last round did for them. It still stands though. We just watched humans being hunted.

And not fussed too much.

[vonuber]

TTmonkey said:

Pretty sure the last round did for them. It still stands though. We just watched humans being hunted.

And not fussed too much.

Well I got a month ban for posting images of the Bucha massacre, before it was plastered all over on primetime news.

So yes, it does shift.

[pquinn]

I've just got bored of the same old videos showing some use of a drone or a bit of artillery or an antitank weapon or whatever - great as a bit of distraction but most of what's going on on the ground now doesn't seem to be quite as tidy or as effective.

People can wk themselves silly over hardware specs but while the Russians have had a stty war they've still grabbed a load of territory and they're slowly gaining more.

I think everyone's so distracted by the toys they just aren't interested in the actual progress of the war.

[Wozy68]

TTmonkey said:

PRTVR said:

A game of hide and seek, is a lot more difficult when the opposition has a drone.

It’s a funny old thing to witness.

A few months ago at the start of this, I posted a link to a video that dared to show, in passing and not in close up, images of a dead Russian soldier near a tank. You couldn’t see much, other than the fact that it was a body lying in the street,

I was heavily criticised with cry’s of ‘NSFW’, and demands of details and warnings of the link content . Like war shouldn’t show death. My post was removed by mods and I was sent an email saying I had broken site rules.

Now we watch a video of four men carrying an injured colleague, trying their best to evacuate this person, using a blanket as a stretcher, and they get hunted down in ‘real time’ by artillery, they refuse to leave him, to run and scatter, Without doubt, it ends with them being hit and probably shredded by shrapnel. They may be the enemy, but they are probably scared and unsure why they are there. Under paid, abused, and little more than human waste. They may be murderers, rapists, looters, or just scared mummies boys.

And no one gives a fek.

Not saying I do much either. But it shows how we change.

If that video shows one thing, it’s that not all Russians leave their dead and injured behind.

The way they ran around in this video shouts more they are just young lads with no idea what they are doing rather than professional soldiers who would have more savvy and know better and get the hell out of dodge asap.

It’s bizarre how I just watched men (most probs) just get killed.

They may have been mass murderers and/or rapists or maybe they were just a bunch of lads that were dragged into a war of not their making.

Whichever it is I’m not sure quite how I feel after watching it; happy that a few more Russians have died on the battlefield or the sad realisation that they will all have family at home who now have lost their love ones.

War….. What is it good for ….. absolutely nothing.

Edwin summed it up well.

[hidetheelephants]

pquinn said:

I've just got bored of the same old videos showing some use of a drone or a bit of artillery or an antitank weapon or whatever - great as a bit of distraction but most of what's going on on the ground now doesn't seem to be quite as tidy or as effective.

People can wk themselves silly over hardware specs but while the Russians have had a stty war they've still grabbed a load of territory and they're slowly gaining more.

I think everyone's so distracted by the toys they just aren't interested in the actual progress of the war.

How's that going then? Russians grinding out a whopping 500 metres a day on a good day, they're really having a Great War.

[anonymous-user]

pquinn said:

I've just got bored of the same old videos showing some use of a drone or a bit of artillery or an antitank weapon or whatever - great as a bit of distraction but most of what's going on on the ground now doesn't seem to be quite as tidy or as effective.

People can wk themselves silly over hardware specs but while the Russians have had a stty war they've still grabbed a load of territory and they're slowly gaining more.

I think everyone's so distracted by the toys they just aren't interested in the actual progress of the war.

Brilliant insight. No really. Everyone has missed the fact that Russia have grabbed a load of land and are grinding forward every day destroying everything in their path. Everyone except you apparently. What more is there to say about Russia's tedious, depressing and destructive grind forward. Ukraine can't match Russia's massive artillery power, the new kit gives them something to punch back with and the specs mean they can keep out of range and hit them accurately which is why they are being discussed. It's the specs that give them a fighting chance with a fraction of the kit.

[vonuber]

Russia has just resorted to its Chechen playbook of shelling the st out of everything then occuyping the wasteland.
They won't be able to do that to the whole of the Ukraine though.

[dudleybloke]

Bad place to take a s#it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/vklz4c/l...

[philv]

fblm said:

pquinn said:

I've just got bored of the same old videos showing some use of a drone or a bit of artillery or an antitank weapon or whatever - great as a bit of distraction but most of what's going on on the ground now doesn't seem to be quite as tidy or as effective.

People can wk themselves silly over hardware specs but while the Russians have had a stty war they've still grabbed a load of territory and they're slowly gaining more.

I think everyone's so distracted by the toys they just aren't interested in the actual progress of the war.

Brilliant insight. No really. Everyone has missed the fact that Russia have grabbed a load of land and are grinding forward every day destroying everything in their path. Everyone except you apparently. What more is there to say about Russia's tedious, depressing and destructive grind forward. Ukraine can't match Russia's massive artillery power, the new kit gives them something to punch back with and the specs mean they can keep out of range and hit them accurately which is why they are being discussed. It's the specs that give them a fighting chance with a fraction of the kit.

It's the thought that it isn't enough.
Putin would happily level all of ukraine, town by town, city by city, to win this war.
Which is what he is doing.

The frustration is that the west are doing just enough to make Russia win very slowly.

It could and should be going the other direction.
But assholrs like macron, etc put their economies before other people's freedom.