UK asylum seekers expected to be flown to Rwanda

[2xChevrons]

s1962a said:

I heard on the radio earlier one of the MP's saying that "the Rwanda plan can only house a few hundred migrants, and what about the other 99%?"

any truth in that? I thought the Rwanda plan was to get most of them out there once it was established.

The scheme agreed with Rwanda is for 1000 immigrants, and Rwanda has stated (or at least stated last summer) that its initial capacity was for 200 people. In the context over 45,000 people arriving by boat crossing in 2022 and an asylum case backlog of over 161,000.

Almost as if it's a futile, token scheme purely to generate favourable press, opportunities for Conservative MP enrichment and culture-war friction from a government and a party with no other ideas!

[hairykrishna]

£140 million. Can't we just give a thousand of them £100k each and tell them to make their own housing arrangements?

[2xChevrons]

hairykrishna said:

£140 million. Can't we just give a thousand of them £100k each and tell them to make their own housing arrangements?

Remember that on top of that £140 million which the UK govt gives to the Rwandan government (for 'economic transformation'), the UK govt will also be allocating each deportee between £20k and £30k in transport, settlement and initial accommodation. So that's a further £20 million at least on top of that figure.

[blueg33]

hairykrishna said:

£140 million. Can't we just give a thousand of them £100k each and tell them to make their own housing arrangements?

30+ barristers in court today. Circa £25k per hour just for them? Plus all of the other court costs.

What a waste of money just to feed red meat to gammons

[pquinn]

blueg33 said:

hairykrishna said:

£140 million. Can't we just give a thousand of them £100k each and tell them to make their own housing arrangements?

30+ barristers in court today. Circa £25k per hour just for them? Plus all of the other court costs.

What a waste of money just to feed red meat to gammons

Because obviously every other single thing around asylum is absolutely free?

The way some people go on you'd think there wasn't a cost attached to their own ideas too.

[blueg33]

Everything has a cost, but it’s up to government to use public money wisely

[ZedLeg]

pquinn said:

blueg33 said:

hairykrishna said:

£140 million. Can't we just give a thousand of them £100k each and tell them to make their own housing arrangements?

30+ barristers in court today. Circa £25k per hour just for them? Plus all of the other court costs.

What a waste of money just to feed red meat to gammons

Because obviously every other single thing around asylum is absolutely free?

The way some people go on you'd think there wasn't a cost attached to their own ideas too.

I think that some people would rather see the money spent in ways that help people coming here and improve the country at large. Rather than performative cruelty for their target audience.

[Murph7355]

ZedLeg said:

I think that some people would rather see the money spent in ways that help people coming here and improve the country at large. Rather than performative cruelty for their target audience.

Out of interest, what "cruelty" is at play?

[ZedLeg]

Murph7355 said:

ZedLeg said:

I think that some people would rather see the money spent in ways that help people coming here and improve the country at large. Rather than performative cruelty for their target audience.

Out of interest, what "cruelty" is at play?

It’s been addressed several times but forced shipping people to internment camps in a country with a bad human rights record is cruel. As is most of the government’s rhetoric around immigration tbh.

[Vasco]

ZedLeg said:

Murph7355 said:

ZedLeg said:

I think that some people would rather see the money spent in ways that help people coming here and improve the country at large. Rather than performative cruelty for their target audience.

Out of interest, what "cruelty" is at play?

It’s been addressed several times but forced shipping people to internment camps in a country with a bad human rights record is cruel. As is most of the government’s rhetoric around immigration tbh.

Has it been confirmed that Rwanda will put people in internment camps ?

[crankedup5]

blueg33 said:

Everything has a cost, but it’s up to government to use public money wisely

Whilst delivering on their election mandate won at the last G.E.

[blueg33]

crankedup5 said:

blueg33 said:

Everything has a cost, but it’s up to government to use public money wisely

Whilst delivering on their election mandate won at the last G.E.

Did they have a mandate to send people to Rwanda?

Certainly wasn't in the top 15 manifesto pledges

Asylum is mentioned once in the manifesto and it says this "We will continue to grant asylum and support to refugees fleeing persecution, with the ultimate aim of helping them to return home if it is safe to do so"

Where is the mandate to waste tax payers money sending people to Rwanda? Something which is potentially illegal to the extent there have been multiple court cases

[blueg33]

Vasco said:

ZedLeg said:

Murph7355 said:

ZedLeg said:

I think that some people would rather see the money spent in ways that help people coming here and improve the country at large. Rather than performative cruelty for their target audience.

Out of interest, what "cruelty" is at play?

It’s been addressed several times but forced shipping people to internment camps in a country with a bad human rights record is cruel. As is most of the government’s rhetoric around immigration tbh.

Has it been confirmed that Rwanda will put people in internment camps ?

Rwanda has a pretty crap human rights record

The US, in its annual human rights assessment said Rwanda operated a system including harsh and life-threatening prison conditions, arbitrary detention, serious restrictions on free expression including the imprisonment of journalists.

They are very poor when it comes to LBGT.

There is widespread evidence of ill-treatment and abuse faced by LGBTQI+ people in Rwanda. For instance, Human Rights Watch reported last year that:

“Rwandan authorities rounded up and arbitrarily detained over a dozen gay and transgender people, sex workers, street children, and others in the months before a planned June 2021 high-profile international conference.”

“People interviewed who identified as gay or transgender said that security officials accused them of “not representing Rwandan values.” They said that other detainees beat them because of their clothes and identity. Three other detainees, who were held in the “delinquents’” room at Gikondo, confirmed that fellow detainees and guards more frequently and violently beat people they knew were gay or transgender than others.”

[Murph7355]

ZedLeg said:

Murph7355 said:

ZedLeg said:

I think that some people would rather see the money spent in ways that help people coming here and improve the country at large. Rather than performative cruelty for their target audience.

Out of interest, what "cruelty" is at play?

It’s been addressed several times but forced shipping people to internment camps in a country with a bad human rights record is cruel. As is most of the government’s rhetoric around immigration tbh.

Good rhetoric yourself

Absolute priority #1 for people fleeing persecution is to be safe and looked after IMO.

Also IMO govt has a priority duty to look after current citizens. Part of that is ensuring anyone coming into the country is checked out properly first.

Call them "internment camps" or "processing centres" depending on how emotive one wants to be... But housing people safely there until they are cleared seems like the right thing to do for all concerned to me (IF processing times are reasonable... Big "if" both on the part of government and the individuals).

IIRC the trouble with refugees in Rwanda recently was because the UN cut funding for supplies....there's zero evidence that anyone will be maltreated there (unless the UN get involved, possibly).

Different approaches need to be tried. Doing nothing will mean nothing changes. People will be taken advantage of by people traffickers on an increasing basis, which I am very sure nobody other than the people traffickers want.

[ZedLeg]

I'm not saying do nothing. We have the capacity to deal with asylum seekers more efficiently here, it's a choice for us to not. Like in so many things, the government policy is to deliberately hamstring services here so they can pitch outsourcing things we should be dealing with ourselves.

[don'tbesilly]

Vasco said:

ZedLeg said:

Murph7355 said:

ZedLeg said:

I think that some people would rather see the money spent in ways that help people coming here and improve the country at large. Rather than performative cruelty for their target audience.

Out of interest, what "cruelty" is at play?

It’s been addressed several times but forced shipping people to internment camps in a country with a bad human rights record is cruel. As is most of the government’s rhetoric around immigration tbh.

Has it been confirmed that Rwanda will put people in internment camps ?

The evidence suggests they won’t be put in internment camps but newly built homes, but Zedleg obviously has the evidence to validate his claim, but has yet to provide such.

https://www.newtimes.co.rw/article/5898/news/infra...

Visiting UK Home Secretary, Suella Braverman, and Rwanda’s Minister of Infrastructure, Ernest Nsabimana, on Sunday, March 19 launched a Rwf60 billion housing project that will see 1,500 units constructed in Gahanga Sector, Kicukiro District.

The project is set to accomodate different people including migrants set to be transferred from the United Kingdom under an existing partnership between both countries.

https://www.pd.co.ke/world/rwanda-launches-home-co...

https://gazettengr.com/rwanda-constructs-new-homes...

https://global.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202303/20/WS641...

[s1962a]

ZedLeg said:

pquinn said:

blueg33 said:

hairykrishna said:

£140 million. Can't we just give a thousand of them £100k each and tell them to make their own housing arrangements?

30+ barristers in court today. Circa £25k per hour just for them? Plus all of the other court costs.

What a waste of money just to feed red meat to gammons

Because obviously every other single thing around asylum is absolutely free?

The way some people go on you'd think there wasn't a cost attached to their own ideas too.

I think that some people would rather see the money spent in ways that help people coming here and improve the country at large. Rather than performative cruelty for their target audience.

All that money being spent.. how many people could they recruit to bring down the waiting times? It's almost as if they dont want the process to get better.

[abzmike]

Rather than cater for thousands, wasn't the objective of the Rawanda scheme to act as a deterrent to immigrants attempting to access the UK at all? Doesn't seem to be working, the government will say because lefty lawyers are preventing it. On the other side, the UK are to accept an equal number of vulnerable individuals from Rawanda - so net effect on immigration is zero. All seems a bit daft.

Edited by abzmike on Tuesday 25th April 11:48

[ZedLeg]

don'tbesilly said:

Vasco said:

ZedLeg said:

Murph7355 said:

ZedLeg said:

I think that some people would rather see the money spent in ways that help people coming here and improve the country at large. Rather than performative cruelty for their target audience.

Out of interest, what "cruelty" is at play?

It’s been addressed several times but forced shipping people to internment camps in a country with a bad human rights record is cruel. As is most of the government’s rhetoric around immigration tbh.

Has it been confirmed that Rwanda will put people in internment camps ?

The evidence suggests they won’t be put in internment camps but newly built homes, but Zedleg obviously has the evidence to validate his claim, but has yet to provide such.

https://www.newtimes.co.rw/article/5898/news/infra...

Visiting UK Home Secretary, Suella Braverman, and Rwanda’s Minister of Infrastructure, Ernest Nsabimana, on Sunday, March 19 launched a Rwf60 billion housing project that will see 1,500 units constructed in Gahanga Sector, Kicukiro District.

The project is set to accomodate different people including migrants set to be transferred from the United Kingdom under an existing partnership between both countries.

https://www.pd.co.ke/world/rwanda-launches-home-co...

https://gazettengr.com/rwanda-constructs-new-homes...

https://global.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202303/20/WS641...

I recalled seeing that report about the housing before, but it had slipped my mind. I was basing my opinion on older information.

Why can't we build housing like that here?

[blueg33]

ZedLeg said:

I recalled seeing that report about the housing before, but it had slipped my mind. I was basing my opinion on older information.

Why can't we build housing like that here?

6 months to build > 500 houses. And you ask the questions above

What do you think that housing would be like? To give you an idea, the fastest that we can build in the UK using traditional methods is circa 5 per month from completed foundations.

We (the business I work for) can peak at 30 per month from foundations but still thats way short of the number in the articles.

I can only concluded that: by our standards the houses are totally substandard or the article is bks