UK asylum seekers expected to be flown to Rwanda
Discussion
rscott said:
johnboy1975 said:
z4RRSchris said:
Greece, which being the first port of call for many migrants coming from Africa takes a huge number. They passed a law in December giving people a 3 year visa and residency as long as they had a job. They cant bring dependents, or use it as a passage to nationality, but in essence it pushes those undocumented migrants into the tax paying system at very little cost, they are there already. Most take up low skilled positions that are needed to grow GDP.
"Greece’s parliament on Tuesday overwhelmingly approved new legislation that will grant tens of thousands of undocumented migrants residence and work permits amid a shortage of unskilled labor.
The law drafted by the center-right government links the right to residence with proof of employment. According to the labor ministry, it will affect some 30,000 people, many of them agricultural laborers."
Why, then, would they leave Greece (safe, warm, job, house) to travel across Europe and jump in a dinghy?"Greece’s parliament on Tuesday overwhelmingly approved new legislation that will grant tens of thousands of undocumented migrants residence and work permits amid a shortage of unskilled labor.
The law drafted by the center-right government links the right to residence with proof of employment. According to the labor ministry, it will affect some 30,000 people, many of them agricultural laborers."
I'd be worried such a policy here would be a massive pull factor. From the government PoV though, it would push up GDP and push down wage inflation. As Rufus says though it's far too toxic a policy to consider. Certainly for the Tories. Could labour make it work, make it seen to be working AND get net migration down?
More generally I've often thought we need a new town / city. Maybe even something akin to "The Line" . Make it zero carbon and car free (monorail from one end to the other)
https://youtu.be/b6GgaJWcbww?si=ICiCWeR1FKRTD5f8
Lots of jobs creating it, provides lots of housing, then add in lots of infrastructure (GPs, shops, hospitals, dentists, schools)
article said:
The latest efforts to scale back the reach of the project come as the Public Investment Fund is evaluating a range of options to raise cash — including accelerating debt sales and lining up equity offerings in its portfolio companies, Bloomberg News has reported. The sovereign wealth fund’s cash reserves dropped to $15 billion as of September — the lowest level since 2020, the earliest year for which data is available.
In 2022, Crown Prince Mohammed said the first phase of Neom was expected to cost 1.2 trillion riyals ($320 billion) by 2030. Half of that is expected to come from the PIF, which the defacto ruler chairs.
So by dumb sums half of the first phase of ‘Neom’ ie $160 Bn comes from a fund which currently has reserves of $15 Bn.In 2022, Crown Prince Mohammed said the first phase of Neom was expected to cost 1.2 trillion riyals ($320 billion) by 2030. Half of that is expected to come from the PIF, which the defacto ruler chairs.
We’ll see.
Ridgemont said:
rscott said:
johnboy1975 said:
z4RRSchris said:
Greece, which being the first port of call for many migrants coming from Africa takes a huge number. They passed a law in December giving people a 3 year visa and residency as long as they had a job. They cant bring dependents, or use it as a passage to nationality, but in essence it pushes those undocumented migrants into the tax paying system at very little cost, they are there already. Most take up low skilled positions that are needed to grow GDP.
"Greece’s parliament on Tuesday overwhelmingly approved new legislation that will grant tens of thousands of undocumented migrants residence and work permits amid a shortage of unskilled labor.
The law drafted by the center-right government links the right to residence with proof of employment. According to the labor ministry, it will affect some 30,000 people, many of them agricultural laborers."
Why, then, would they leave Greece (safe, warm, job, house) to travel across Europe and jump in a dinghy?"Greece’s parliament on Tuesday overwhelmingly approved new legislation that will grant tens of thousands of undocumented migrants residence and work permits amid a shortage of unskilled labor.
The law drafted by the center-right government links the right to residence with proof of employment. According to the labor ministry, it will affect some 30,000 people, many of them agricultural laborers."
I'd be worried such a policy here would be a massive pull factor. From the government PoV though, it would push up GDP and push down wage inflation. As Rufus says though it's far too toxic a policy to consider. Certainly for the Tories. Could labour make it work, make it seen to be working AND get net migration down?
More generally I've often thought we need a new town / city. Maybe even something akin to "The Line" . Make it zero carbon and car free (monorail from one end to the other)
https://youtu.be/b6GgaJWcbww?si=ICiCWeR1FKRTD5f8
Lots of jobs creating it, provides lots of housing, then add in lots of infrastructure (GPs, shops, hospitals, dentists, schools)
article said:
The latest efforts to scale back the reach of the project come as the Public Investment Fund is evaluating a range of options to raise cash — including accelerating debt sales and lining up equity offerings in its portfolio companies, Bloomberg News has reported. The sovereign wealth fund’s cash reserves dropped to $15 billion as of September — the lowest level since 2020, the earliest year for which data is available.
In 2022, Crown Prince Mohammed said the first phase of Neom was expected to cost 1.2 trillion riyals ($320 billion) by 2030. Half of that is expected to come from the PIF, which the defacto ruler chairs.
So by dumb sums half of the first phase of ‘Neom’ ie $160 Bn comes from a fund which currently has reserves of $15 Bn.In 2022, Crown Prince Mohammed said the first phase of Neom was expected to cost 1.2 trillion riyals ($320 billion) by 2030. Half of that is expected to come from the PIF, which the defacto ruler chairs.
We’ll see.
crankedup5 said:
Is there a new war going down in Vietnam? Why are some Vietnamese now joining the Calais queue for a boat to U.K. ?
There was an article about this in the Guardian yesterday. It sounds similar to what happened with Albania where the spike was more driven by changes in trafficking flows than anything specific about the country situation changing. That said, Vietnam is somewhere you could credibly claim asylum from https://www.state.gov/reports/2022-country-reports...E63eeeeee... said:
crankedup5 said:
Is there a new war going down in Vietnam? Why are some Vietnamese now joining the Calais queue for a boat to U.K. ?
There was an article about this in the Guardian yesterday. It sounds similar to what happened with Albania where the spike was more driven by changes in trafficking flows than anything specific about the country situation changing. That said, Vietnam is somewhere you could credibly claim asylum from https://www.state.gov/reports/2022-country-reports...I had not read or seen Vietnamese people using small boat trafficking until this group gained news prominence. Usual routes are back of lorries, recall recent deaths in the back of a sealed lorry. Television documentary followed the journey and plight of those people, holding the perpetrators to justice.
Problem is western values cannot be imposed upon Countries that do not meet our standards that we take for granted perhaps. Tried it and it doesn’t work.
crankedup5 said:
E63eeeeee... said:
crankedup5 said:
Is there a new war going down in Vietnam? Why are some Vietnamese now joining the Calais queue for a boat to U.K. ?
There was an article about this in the Guardian yesterday. It sounds similar to what happened with Albania where the spike was more driven by changes in trafficking flows than anything specific about the country situation changing. That said, Vietnam is somewhere you could credibly claim asylum from https://www.state.gov/reports/2022-country-reports...I had not read or seen Vietnamese people using small boat trafficking until this group gained news prominence. Usual routes are back of lorries, recall recent deaths in the back of a sealed lorry. Television documentary followed the journey and plight of those people, holding the perpetrators to justice.
Problem is western values cannot be imposed upon Countries that do not meet our standards that we take for granted perhaps. Tried it and it doesn’t work.
Not a jot on the deaths in French papers - https://www.lefigaro.fr/
Each departing boat is a part of their problem solved.
Each departing boat is a part of their problem solved.
crankedup5 said:
I’m still waiting to hear as to where the Country is supposed to house these people coming into the Country, especially those people currently housed in hotels. They will soon be fast tracked out of the hotels under a Labour Government. The Country does not have the infrastructure to support tens of thousands of people. It’s already nigh impossible to get a doctors appointment and dentists on NHS are non existent to new patients. Paddington rail station is already overcrowded with homeless people which indicates the severity of the issue.
The crux of the "debate".1: Not being able to get a doctor's appointment is because of demographic issues and lack of investment. We cut budgets for things that reduce long term sickness, we failed to train enough doctors and demographics mean we have more old people relative to workers. Immigration provides more doctors to replace the one we haven't trained and more tax payers to pay for them.
You're more likely to be treated by an immigrant than behind one on a waiting list.
2: Homeless people is more of an issue of cutting budgets on the programs that deal with the underlying issues and again those budgets are constrained by demographics and the UKs low productivity. If we were more productive we'd have more money to automate a whole load of jobs we currently throw people at while having the resources to train and pay people to sort out all the visible problems with the public realm.
Again we've used low cost immigrants to try and reduce the cost of the sticking plasters we've put on things.
We've had a lack of public investment due to austerity which has also resulted in reduced private sector investment (except in non productive stuff like a housing bubble). Then compound it with 8 years of uncertainty and government preoccupation with Brexit which has further disincentivised private sector investment.
In short treating the symptoms of problems with policy prescriptions that appeal to the illiberal old has a very poor track record.
Talksteer said:
crankedup5 said:
I’m still waiting to hear as to where the Country is supposed to house these people coming into the Country, especially those people currently housed in hotels. They will soon be fast tracked out of the hotels under a Labour Government. The Country does not have the infrastructure to support tens of thousands of people. It’s already nigh impossible to get a doctors appointment and dentists on NHS are non existent to new patients. Paddington rail station is already overcrowded with homeless people which indicates the severity of the issue.
The crux of the "debate".1: Not being able to get a doctor's appointment is because of demographic issues and lack of investment. We cut budgets for things that reduce long term sickness, we failed to train enough doctors and demographics mean we have more old people relative to workers. Immigration provides more doctors to replace the one we haven't trained and more tax payers to pay for them.
You're more likely to be treated by an immigrant than behind one on a waiting list.
2: Homeless people is more of an issue of cutting budgets on the programs that deal with the underlying issues and again those budgets are constrained by demographics and the UKs low productivity. If we were more productive we'd have more money to automate a whole load of jobs we currently throw people at while having the resources to train and pay people to sort out all the visible problems with the public realm.
Again we've used low cost immigrants to try and reduce the cost of the sticking plasters we've put on things.
We've had a lack of public investment due to austerity which has also resulted in reduced private sector investment (except in non productive stuff like a housing bubble). Then compound it with 8 years of uncertainty and government preoccupation with Brexit which has further disincentivised private sector investment.
In short treating the symptoms of problems with policy prescriptions that appeal to the illiberal old has a very poor track record.
I broadly agree point 1. Although that has been the situation building for decades.
Point 2, I believe the situation has largely developed, again over decades, through the sale of
Council houses and not replacing those sold. Add to that the building out of housing for open market sales has been limited for commercial gain. Holding back building develops the housing shortage pushing up prices (supply/demand). Housing became. a investment opportunity over the past 50 years,again pushing up prices. Buying off plan became the norm. So a prefect circle created leading to the present situation.
I agree we have relied on low cost migrants and that was for decades, helped boost profits but stifles innovation, It also holds back investment.
Certainly the Country has been Governed with short term policies designed to attract re-election rather than long term planning or the benefit of the Country. We have homelessness, housing stock that is inadequate to meet needs, an excessive housing stock which is unfit for purpose, high cost housing which unaffordable and a crumbling public infrastructure.
Some can be laid at the door of Tory Governance of past three Parliaments, but much of it is lack of long term planning, bad decision making, bad investment strategy for many decades.
We now have high and increasing levels of migrants with an infrastructure unable to serve the population adequately.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/apr/28/ho...
Home office to detain asylum seekers in advance of the Rwanda deportations.
Only issue is that they will predominantly be relying on said people to turn up to appointments. And it's in the national press in advance.
This will most likely result in those people disappearing into the black economy, or organised protests preventing immigration services taking these people away. Policies like this are going to make heroes out of asylum seekers.
Further evidence Rishi is s
t at politics!
Home office to detain asylum seekers in advance of the Rwanda deportations.
Only issue is that they will predominantly be relying on said people to turn up to appointments. And it's in the national press in advance.
This will most likely result in those people disappearing into the black economy, or organised protests preventing immigration services taking these people away. Policies like this are going to make heroes out of asylum seekers.
Further evidence Rishi is s
t at politics!
Talksteer said:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/apr/28/ho...
Home office to detain asylum seekers in advance of the Rwanda deportations.
Only issue is that they will predominantly be relying on said people to turn up to appointments. And it's in the national press in advance.
This will most likely result in those people disappearing into the black economy, or organised protests preventing immigration services taking these people away. Policies like this are going to make heroes out of asylum seekers.
Further evidence Rishi is st at politics!
Too early to say is it not?Home office to detain asylum seekers in advance of the Rwanda deportations.
Only issue is that they will predominantly be relying on said people to turn up to appointments. And it's in the national press in advance.
This will most likely result in those people disappearing into the black economy, or organised protests preventing immigration services taking these people away. Policies like this are going to make heroes out of asylum seekers.
Further evidence Rishi is s
t at politics!I didn't see anyone predict the Ireland situation that is unfolding so who knows what happens next.
Ireland not prepared to be anyone's "migration loophole"!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2vw51eggwqo
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2vw51eggwqo
272BHP said:
UK government source said:
“We won’t accept any asylum returns from the EU via Ireland until the EU accepts that we can send them back to France"
Touche.t. They wouldn't be returns from the EU, Ireland's non-EEA migration policies are nothing to do with the EU. We decided to leave Dublin and not negotiate a replacement. What we're apparently saying is we're happy to fk over our closest neighbours to try to get back at an entirely different country rather than work together to come up with a reasonable solution. It's like being ruled by fking toddlers, and clowns supporting it as if it's clever rhetoric should be ashamed. E63eeeeee... said:
This is typical bullst. They wouldn't be returns from the EU, Ireland's non-EEA migration policies are nothing to do with the EU. We decided to leave Dublin and not negotiate a replacement. What we're apparently saying is we're happy to fk over our closest neighbours to try to get back at an entirely different country rather than work together to come up with a reasonable solution. It's like being ruled by fking toddlers, and clowns supporting it as if it's clever rhetoric should be ashamed.
Who are the toddlers though?t. They wouldn't be returns from the EU, Ireland's non-EEA migration policies are nothing to do with the EU. We decided to leave Dublin and not negotiate a replacement. What we're apparently saying is we're happy to fk over our closest neighbours to try to get back at an entirely different country rather than work together to come up with a reasonable solution. It's like being ruled by fking toddlers, and clowns supporting it as if it's clever rhetoric should be ashamed. The Irish High Court ruled last month that Britain is now an unsafe country for migrants and barred their legal return.
Nonsense like that has come back to bite them pretty hard real quick.
Talksteer said:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/apr/28/ho...
Home office to detain asylum seekers in advance of the Rwanda deportations.
Only issue is that they will predominantly be relying on said people to turn up to appointments. And it's in the national press in advance.
This will most likely result in those people disappearing into the black economy, or organised protests preventing immigration services taking these people away. Policies like this are going to make heroes out of asylum seekers.
Further evidence Rishi is st at politics!
It's completely coincidental this is happening the week of the local elections of course. Locking up people for three months for a flight that may or may not happen to try to keep Sunak in a job is just embarrassing banana republic sHome office to detain asylum seekers in advance of the Rwanda deportations.
Only issue is that they will predominantly be relying on said people to turn up to appointments. And it's in the national press in advance.
This will most likely result in those people disappearing into the black economy, or organised protests preventing immigration services taking these people away. Policies like this are going to make heroes out of asylum seekers.
Further evidence Rishi is s
t at politics!t. Given there's tens of thousands to choose from you could fill the first flight in a week, no reason to tie up detention estate for months and block other removals that have a much better chance of happening. It's similarly coincidental that the Ireland thing has blown up this week considering Ireland have been blaming Rwanda for their asylum intake since 2022.
272BHP said:
UK government source said:
“We won’t accept any asylum returns from the EU via Ireland until the EU accepts that we can send them back to France"
Touche.Therefore the EU want to stop migration from the UK to Eire. The same applies to other Third Would failed states, Libya etc.
Hopefully Labour will fix it, after the zombie government gets the boot.
Touché
Edited by James6112 on Sunday 28th April 22:54
272BHP said:
E63eeeeee... said:
This is typical bullst. They wouldn't be returns from the EU, Ireland's non-EEA migration policies are nothing to do with the EU. We decided to leave Dublin and not negotiate a replacement. What we're apparently saying is we're happy to fk over our closest neighbours to try to get back at an entirely different country rather than work together to come up with a reasonable solution. It's like being ruled by fking toddlers, and clowns supporting it as if it's clever rhetoric should be ashamed.
Who are the toddlers though?t. They wouldn't be returns from the EU, Ireland's non-EEA migration policies are nothing to do with the EU. We decided to leave Dublin and not negotiate a replacement. What we're apparently saying is we're happy to fk over our closest neighbours to try to get back at an entirely different country rather than work together to come up with a reasonable solution. It's like being ruled by fking toddlers, and clowns supporting it as if it's clever rhetoric should be ashamed. The Irish High Court ruled last month that Britain is now an unsafe country for migrants and barred their legal return.
Nonsense like that has come back to bite them pretty hard real quick.
E63eeeeee... said:
This is typical bullst. They wouldn't be returns from the EU, Ireland's non-EEA migration policies are nothing to do with the EU. We decided to leave Dublin and not negotiate a replacement. What we're apparently saying is we're happy to fk over our closest neighbours to try to get back at an entirely different country rather than work together to come up with a reasonable solution. It's like being ruled by fking toddlers, and clowns supporting it as if it's clever rhetoric should be ashamed.
We can't choose to send people back to another nation and nore can Ireland....thems the rulest. They wouldn't be returns from the EU, Ireland's non-EEA migration policies are nothing to do with the EU. We decided to leave Dublin and not negotiate a replacement. What we're apparently saying is we're happy to fk over our closest neighbours to try to get back at an entirely different country rather than work together to come up with a reasonable solution. It's like being ruled by fking toddlers, and clowns supporting it as if it's clever rhetoric should be ashamed. Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff