external water shut-off...can't locate it
Discussion
we've had a leak on the internal stopcock for water supply, and clearly it needs sorting, but we're also having a new kitchen in a couple of months so we're assuming that will only add to the urgency. However the external stop cock / shut off valve cannot be located. I've had a look, so has the plumber, and United Utilities have been out with a metal detector... no dice. What are the options now?! UU have said that they have no interest in solving it as it is private property (possible bulls
t) and I am fairly stumped. I know the pipe can be frozen to permit the change of the internal stopcock, but that still means we don't know where the external shut off is in case of bigger emergencies.... any tips, ideas... has anyone else been through this. It's a barn conversion so oddities are designed-in. Ta
t) and I am fairly stumped. I know the pipe can be frozen to permit the change of the internal stopcock, but that still means we don't know where the external shut off is in case of bigger emergencies.... any tips, ideas... has anyone else been through this. It's a barn conversion so oddities are designed-in. TaAre you not on a water meter? I might be wrong but I thought the utility company was responsible up to and including the external stopcock/water meter and they should have plans on their locations. we've live on an unadopted gravel road and I couldn't find the stopcock/meter when we first moved in. I spoke to SE Water who gave me approximate locations relative to the far front corner of the property and I located it buried under the gravel. Then I found it was partially seized and impossible to turn completely off so reported it to SE water who were out within a couple of days to replace it with a brand new stopcock and meter.
We didnt know where our external shut-off stopcock was either.
Issue was solved when we became a compulsory water meter area. South East Water turned up and did all the neighbours and couldn't find ours. So cue a detector followed by holes dug with no joy. After 3 days of randomly digging holes they changed tactic, and started digging one long hole the whole way along the boundary. Luckily for them the boundary is short - especially as they found it at the opposite end to the one they started at!
Issue was solved when we became a compulsory water meter area. South East Water turned up and did all the neighbours and couldn't find ours. So cue a detector followed by holes dug with no joy. After 3 days of randomly digging holes they changed tactic, and started digging one long hole the whole way along the boundary. Luckily for them the boundary is short - especially as they found it at the opposite end to the one they started at!
our meter is indoors, next to the stopcock under the sink. Makes me wonder if this means we don't actually have an external shut off?
we've looked high and low now, dug a bit (although not everywhere).
UU came, but the guy was rude and couldn't be bothered to help. He had a metal detector, but didn't really seem to be giving it a decent go. He just sort of huffed around and then flounced, being rude to the neighbours too.
It's easy to locate the neighbours' ones outside their houses. So, either it is somewhere really random, or is totally overgrown, or both. So, we're a bit stuck.
The way I see it is that we can either really lay it on thick with united utilities to sort it (somehow), or potentially use a pipe tracing company of some kind to trace the water supply pipe to the boundary.
If we don't end up having a shut off that it usable, i guess the internal stopcock will have to be replaced using a pipe freezing technique... no idea how much that is or even if it's possible!
we've looked high and low now, dug a bit (although not everywhere).
UU came, but the guy was rude and couldn't be bothered to help. He had a metal detector, but didn't really seem to be giving it a decent go. He just sort of huffed around and then flounced, being rude to the neighbours too.
It's easy to locate the neighbours' ones outside their houses. So, either it is somewhere really random, or is totally overgrown, or both. So, we're a bit stuck.
The way I see it is that we can either really lay it on thick with united utilities to sort it (somehow), or potentially use a pipe tracing company of some kind to trace the water supply pipe to the boundary.
If we don't end up having a shut off that it usable, i guess the internal stopcock will have to be replaced using a pipe freezing technique... no idea how much that is or even if it's possible!
We had a similar problem recently - solved by a company that “threads” a wire down the incoming pipe and then traces that wire with a detector. Only apparent limit is if the wire hits a T junction on the way…
It’s long enough for pretty much any application and is fairly quick so relatively cheap.
HTH
It’s long enough for pretty much any application and is fairly quick so relatively cheap.
HTH
We live in a Victorian house, with no external stopcock, a common occurrence in houses of a certain age, apparently.
As it turns out too, we shared our water main with next door, as we found when tracing a water main leak through our back garden where the old iron pipe had rusted through and was letting water flow straight into the ground under their patio!
After repairing that pipe. We got the installer to mole a new water main pipe from the front of my house into the kitchen as close as possible to the main running along the road outside, and got local water company to come and connect it to the mains with a water meter.
It was quite a slow process, and a fair bit of faffing about, but worth it to finally get decent water pressure to the house to update our boiler and add an extra shower room, and gained an outside stop cock. We didn't have to pay for the water main connection as we were going onto a meter.
As it turns out too, we shared our water main with next door, as we found when tracing a water main leak through our back garden where the old iron pipe had rusted through and was letting water flow straight into the ground under their patio!
After repairing that pipe. We got the installer to mole a new water main pipe from the front of my house into the kitchen as close as possible to the main running along the road outside, and got local water company to come and connect it to the mains with a water meter.
It was quite a slow process, and a fair bit of faffing about, but worth it to finally get decent water pressure to the house to update our boiler and add an extra shower room, and gained an outside stop cock. We didn't have to pay for the water main connection as we were going onto a meter.
I would call your supplier again and elevate the issue.
We had a manky old stopcock and a meter under the sink in a renovation we did.
Water company don't like internal meters and were apparently swapping over to external ones as part of a general ongoing update.
2 days later bloke turns up and locates external stopcock, fitted a new meter, and fitted us a new internal stoptap all for free.
He had a catscan to locate the metal lid in the street,
On a previous house on a private lane we shared a supply with two other houses - no-one knew the location of the main stopcock but we got the plans from the water board which gave us a very rough approximation of the main location and route. We then dug a slit trench about 750mm deep and found it.
That gave us a better idea where to search and with a pointed steel road pin we found it under a fair amount of earth covered by years of vehicles traversing the end of the lane entrance.
We had a manky old stopcock and a meter under the sink in a renovation we did.
Water company don't like internal meters and were apparently swapping over to external ones as part of a general ongoing update.
2 days later bloke turns up and locates external stopcock, fitted a new meter, and fitted us a new internal stoptap all for free.
He had a catscan to locate the metal lid in the street,
On a previous house on a private lane we shared a supply with two other houses - no-one knew the location of the main stopcock but we got the plans from the water board which gave us a very rough approximation of the main location and route. We then dug a slit trench about 750mm deep and found it.
That gave us a better idea where to search and with a pointed steel road pin we found it under a fair amount of earth covered by years of vehicles traversing the end of the lane entrance.
Phone the supplier and complaint that the meter is on your property. It should really be on the boundary (next to the water company owned external stop tap). I suspect the installer took the path of least resistance.
I would raise and state you are looking to feed other parts of your property using your supply (you own to the boundary) but that would circumvent the current meter. You also want to renew the supply and the meters current position makes this difficult. Ask for it to moved to the property boundary...this will result in you getting a new external tap.
I would raise and state you are looking to feed other parts of your property using your supply (you own to the boundary) but that would circumvent the current meter. You also want to renew the supply and the meters current position makes this difficult. Ask for it to moved to the property boundary...this will result in you getting a new external tap.
BreakingBad said:
We had a similar problem recently - solved by a company that “threads” a wire down the incoming pipe and then traces that wire with a detector. Only apparent limit is if the wire hits a T junction on the way…
It’s long enough for pretty much any application and is fairly quick so relatively cheap.
HTH
what was the company?It’s long enough for pretty much any application and is fairly quick so relatively cheap.
HTH
Peanut Gallery said:
As above, compare as many neighbours taps with where their house is, and does one neighbour have 2 taps, with one pointing towards your house?
(There are 2 taps in the path infront of my house, the one that is closest to my neighbour is mine, the one furthest is his, why, who knows!)
yea we considered that. Have discussed with neighbours either side. All the properties were converted at the same time and most/all seem to have stop valves and meters so it would be odd if they'd decided not to put a stop valve just on ours. With our neighbour's permission we had a look down his hatch and it is very deep! There are also lots of stones in there... so it will require some work and a universal key to operate i am assuming. (There are 2 taps in the path infront of my house, the one that is closest to my neighbour is mine, the one furthest is his, why, who knows!)
gfreeman said:
I would call your supplier again and elevate the issue.
We had a manky old stopcock and a meter under the sink in a renovation we did.
Water company don't like internal meters and were apparently swapping over to external ones as part of a general ongoing update.
2 days later bloke turns up and locates external stopcock, fitted a new meter, and fitted us a new internal stoptap all for free.
He had a catscan to locate the metal lid in the street,
On a previous house on a private lane we shared a supply with two other houses - no-one knew the location of the main stopcock but we got the plans from the water board which gave us a very rough approximation of the main location and route. We then dug a slit trench about 750mm deep and found it.
That gave us a better idea where to search and with a pointed steel road pin we found it under a fair amount of earth covered by years of vehicles traversing the end of the lane entrance.
guy turned up, was rude to everyone, quickly wanged a detector around the place and then fWe had a manky old stopcock and a meter under the sink in a renovation we did.
Water company don't like internal meters and were apparently swapping over to external ones as part of a general ongoing update.
2 days later bloke turns up and locates external stopcock, fitted a new meter, and fitted us a new internal stoptap all for free.
He had a catscan to locate the metal lid in the street,
On a previous house on a private lane we shared a supply with two other houses - no-one knew the location of the main stopcock but we got the plans from the water board which gave us a very rough approximation of the main location and route. We then dug a slit trench about 750mm deep and found it.
That gave us a better idea where to search and with a pointed steel road pin we found it under a fair amount of earth covered by years of vehicles traversing the end of the lane entrance.
ked off with no findings.guitarcarfanatic said:
Phone the supplier and complaint that the meter is on your property. It should really be on the boundary (next to the water company owned external stop tap). I suspect the installer took the path of least resistance.
I would raise and state you are looking to feed other parts of your property using your supply (you own to the boundary) but that would circumvent the current meter. You also want to renew the supply and the meters current position makes this difficult. Ask for it to moved to the property boundary...this will result in you getting a new external tap.
interesting... yes the meter is under the sink currently. UU told me that they no longer own or maintain external stop valves, but i don't recall ever seeing any formal communication around this. Will try this!I would raise and state you are looking to feed other parts of your property using your supply (you own to the boundary) but that would circumvent the current meter. You also want to renew the supply and the meters current position makes this difficult. Ask for it to moved to the property boundary...this will result in you getting a new external tap.
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