Blackpool footballer comes out as gay
Discussion
Randy Winkman said:
JagLover said:
Tyre Smoke said:
Seriously? That's almost misogynistic.
It is an exaggeration but not far short of the truth. Women's football is likely of a similar standard to boys U15 due to the physical demands of the sport. That is why we have separate male and female sections in most sports.
HustleRussell said:
Transgender people remain the number one scapegoat of choice for the 'what about'ers.
No scapegoats here. Just cold hard reality - football is a very physical game.It is also a game where the billionaire funded teams would leave no stone unturned in seeking out the top physical specimens to represent them.
We are getting off topic though.
Randy Winkman said:
JagLover said:
Tyre Smoke said:
Seriously? That's almost misogynistic.
It is an exaggeration but not far short of the truth. Women's football is likely of a similar standard to boys U15 due to the physical demands of the sport. That is why we have separate male and female sections in most sports.
This leaves the problem. Either woman’s sports federations have no objective definition, so leave it open to self identification, or have an objective definition, whatever that may be, and risk including or excluding people you don’t intend too.
It also strikes at the heart of the purpose of womens sport. Is it for equality and fairness? In which case does it meet that when you exclude a section of participants, especially when there is no evidence of any issue, just feelings and instinct, most of which have a ring of the complainants against women play sport from 100 years ago. Or is it to allow a group to compete on a level playing field, in which case you are undermining the case for elite woman’s sport.
It’s a complicated and complex area. The whole trans debate seems to have a healthy dose of third wave feminism misandry too it and I think it is being used as a mens rights proxy to some extent.
MC Bodge said:
JagLover said:
Driver101 said:
MC Bodge said:
There is surely far more acceptance of sexuality in the UK now than there ever has been
Is there? Crime figures show it is quickly going the wrong way.
Driver101 said:
MC Bodge said:
JagLover said:
Driver101 said:
MC Bodge said:
There is surely far more acceptance of sexuality in the UK now than there ever has been
Is there? Crime figures show it is quickly going the wrong way.
A500leroy said:
JagLover said:
Tyre Smoke said:
Seriously? That's almost misogynistic.
It is an exaggeration but not far short of the truth. Women's football is likely of a similar standard to boys U15 due to the physical demands of the sport. That is why we have separate male and female sections in most sports.
I think many underestimate just how much advantage is gained from testosterone in such physical activities.
HustleRussell said:
Driver101 said:
MC Bodge said:
JagLover said:
Driver101 said:
MC Bodge said:
There is surely far more acceptance of sexuality in the UK now than there ever has been
Is there? Crime figures show it is quickly going the wrong way.
MC Bodge said:
Driver101 said:
Homophobic hate crimes have doubled in the last ten years.
Without wishing to get into forum tennis, "hate crime" and "taking minorities, inc. gay people, seriously" are different in 2022 than the were even in 2012, let alone 1982 or '92.It sounds like both of you want to downplay the significance of the reports. It's getting worse all the time. Groups are coming out and giving their experiences. Numerous reports back them up.
Why don't you believe them?
It's always this way with sexual crime towards women and topics of racism. Too many people want to dismiss the seriousness of the problem.
The vast majority of the population of the UK have very moderate views and no matter what age demographic you speak to they are very accepting - this is absolutely something that has changed beyond recognition in the last 30 years or so.
I guess the problem comes down to the globalisation of football and the fact that our top clubs have overseas investment and support from some countries that would no doubt frown on a homosexual player representing their team.
If Jake develops into a top tier player then I guess we will find out the real extent of the problem.
I guess the problem comes down to the globalisation of football and the fact that our top clubs have overseas investment and support from some countries that would no doubt frown on a homosexual player representing their team.
If Jake develops into a top tier player then I guess we will find out the real extent of the problem.
Derek Smith said:
My son played in a level 5 rugby team. 'Everyone' knew that one of the players was gay. Nothing was said, it was just one of those things. He didn't realise it was apparent and he geared himself up and told the team one time. They all sort of went, yeah right, and he was a bit deflated. My son said it was obviously a big thing for him, but to the guys, it was immaterial.
I don't know about football, but I'm surprised that it is such a shocking thing to discover that a player's gay. It is probable that more than one player in a team is gay. If the others don't want to say anything, so what?
I was on a licensing unit and Brighton has its share of gay bars/clubs. I would pay a visit and see colleagues there - they out of uniform of course. This was back in the 90s. Is football still in the dark ages?
Much the same reaction in my son's rugby team when a pretty much identical situation occurred. Nobody at his club gives a damn.I don't know about football, but I'm surprised that it is such a shocking thing to discover that a player's gay. It is probable that more than one player in a team is gay. If the others don't want to say anything, so what?
I was on a licensing unit and Brighton has its share of gay bars/clubs. I would pay a visit and see colleagues there - they out of uniform of course. This was back in the 90s. Is football still in the dark ages?
Tyre Smoke said:
Randy Winkman said:
JagLover said:
Tyre Smoke said:
Seriously? That's almost misogynistic.
It is an exaggeration but not far short of the truth. Women's football is likely of a similar standard to boys U15 due to the physical demands of the sport. That is why we have separate male and female sections in most sports.
Driver101 said:
Are they?
It sounds like both of you want to downplay the significance of the reports. It's getting worse all the time. Groups are coming out and giving their experiences. Numerous reports back them up.
Why don't you believe them?
It's always this way with sexual crime towards women and topics of racism. Too many people want to dismiss the seriousness of the problem.
Are you quite young?It sounds like both of you want to downplay the significance of the reports. It's getting worse all the time. Groups are coming out and giving their experiences. Numerous reports back them up.
Why don't you believe them?
It's always this way with sexual crime towards women and topics of racism. Too many people want to dismiss the seriousness of the problem.
In the past, those groups didn't even come out as gay. Sports players certainly didn't -it is still news in 2022....
In the early 1990s, My high school of 1400 pupils and 100 teachers had no openly gay students or teachers as far as I knew -and it would have been widely known.
People tried to hide their homosexuality, even from close family. The Police were not very sympathetic.
Until 50-odd years ago it was actually illegal.
The language used by ordinary people and by authority figures about gay people in the 1980s would be considered outrageous and unacceptable nowadays.
That is not to dismiss the experiences of people today, but provides some context.
"Hate crime" is a very broad category in 2022.
Edited by MC Bodge on Tuesday 17th May 18:44
272BHP said:
The vast majority of the population of the UK have very moderate views and no matter what age demographic you speak to they are very accepting - this is absolutely something that has changed beyond recognition in the last 30 years or so.
I guess the problem comes down to the globalisation of football and the fact that our top clubs have overseas investment and support from some countries that would no doubt frown on a homosexual player representing their team.
If Jake develops into a top tier player then I guess we will find out the real extent of the problem.
You might be right but I think it's basically UK football culture and (opposition) fans that are the issue. It's the gap between what the clubs would like to happen and what might actually happen in real life. It's like the most of the UK a few decades ago when it was just easier for gay people to keep their heads down and the rest of us to pretend they don't exist. I guess the problem comes down to the globalisation of football and the fact that our top clubs have overseas investment and support from some countries that would no doubt frown on a homosexual player representing their team.
If Jake develops into a top tier player then I guess we will find out the real extent of the problem.
That's why I think it's different from other sports such as rugby. Because it's football, not rugby.
OK, I’m defiantly not the biggest football fan in the world.
I suppose it’s the old ‘macho’ stereotype of football... yet there has only been one openly gay driver in F1, but when, not if, a driver comes out... most of us won’t batter an eyelid.
I suppose it’s the old ‘macho’ stereotype of football... yet there has only been one openly gay driver in F1, but when, not if, a driver comes out... most of us won’t batter an eyelid.
Edited by Milkyway on Tuesday 17th May 18:59
MC Bodge said:
Driver101 said:
Are they?
It sounds like both of you want to downplay the significance of the reports. It's getting worse all the time. Groups are coming out and giving their experiences. Numerous reports back them up.
Why don't you believe them?
It's always this way with sexual crime towards women and topics of racism. Too many people want to dismiss the seriousness of the problem.
Are you quite young?It sounds like both of you want to downplay the significance of the reports. It's getting worse all the time. Groups are coming out and giving their experiences. Numerous reports back them up.
Why don't you believe them?
It's always this way with sexual crime towards women and topics of racism. Too many people want to dismiss the seriousness of the problem.
In the past, those groups didn't even come out as gay. In the early 1990s, My high school of 1400 pupils and 100 teachers had no openly gay students or teachers as far as I knew -and it would have been widely known.
People tried to hide their homosexuality, even from close family. The Police were not very sympathetic.
Until 50-odd years ago it was actually illegal.
The language used by ordinary people and by authority figures about gay people in the 1980s would be considered outrageous and unacceptable nowadays.
That is not to dismiss the experiences of people today, but provides some context.
"Hate crime" is a very broad category in 2022.
There was no openly gay people in your high school in the early 90s? It wasn't the case with my school. Not many people were sexually active to be called gay, but there was people attracted to the same sex.
We didn't have conversations with teachers about their sexuality. There was a couple that everyone thought were gay.
People still hide their sexuality to this day.
I don't recall the police not being sympathetic to homophobia. Some police officers would also be unsympathetic/homophobic themselves, but to say the police were not sympathetic is too far.
What happened in the 50s is irrelevant to the discussion. Gay people shouldn't be made to feel they have a reasonable deal now because 50 years ago it was much worse. As my point was homophobia is much worse now than it was 10 years ago. There is plenty of reports out there that back that up. There's plenty of groups and gay people who all share the same opinions.
To dismiss that as it's just the way hate crimes are recorded isn't fair. They are increasing year on year because the problem is getting worse.
Edited by Driver101 on Tuesday 17th May 20:33
Milkyway said:
OK, I’m defiantly not the biggest football fan in the world.
I suppose it’s the old ‘macho’ stereotype of football... yet there has only been one openly gay driver in F1.
Yet, but when, not if, a driver comes out... most of us won’t batter an eyelid.
If it was such an insignificant incident, why would you remember a driver from 50 years ago because they were gay? I suppose it’s the old ‘macho’ stereotype of football... yet there has only been one openly gay driver in F1.
Yet, but when, not if, a driver comes out... most of us won’t batter an eyelid.
Edited by Milkyway on Tuesday 17th May 18:55
Just about any sport played by males will have a reaction to a gay man taking part.
Lewis Hamilton gets targeted with racism. F1 isn't free of hate crimes.
Edited by Driver101 on Tuesday 17th May 19:12
Randy Winkman said:
Tyre Smoke said:
Randy Winkman said:
JagLover said:
Tyre Smoke said:
Seriously? That's almost misogynistic.
It is an exaggeration but not far short of the truth. Women's football is likely of a similar standard to boys U15 due to the physical demands of the sport. That is why we have separate male and female sections in most sports.
I fully understand that men are stronger, it's nature. That is why we have male and female categories in all sports pretty much.
To clarify, my point was women's football is at a much higher standard than that. But perhaps that is part of the problem, men don't want to see that?
Driver101 said:
If it was such an insignificant incident, why would you remember a driver from 40 years ago because they were gay?
Just about any sport played by males will have a reaction to a gay man taking part.
Lewis Hamilton gets targeted with racism. F1 isn't free of hate crimes.
It just jogged my memory about an article I read a few years ago...Just about any sport played by males will have a reaction to a gay man taking part.
Lewis Hamilton gets targeted with racism. F1 isn't free of hate crimes.
It just popped up on a Motorsport page.
Edited by Milkyway on Tuesday 17th May 19:16
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