Conservative MP arrested for rape and sexual assault
Discussion
SmoothCriminal said:
glazbagun said:
What odds on "Lessons will be learned, he's apologized, he's not been convicted yet, no need to resign?"
So you think someone's life should be ruined because someone made an allegation of something that happened twenty years ago.Ever heard of Carl Beech? https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jul/22/ca...
In this country you are innocent until proven guilty not just because the BBC and t
tter say so.If anyone thinks that an ordinary person can do anything, make any allegation against the rich and famous and get away with it, then they are deluded.
Eric Mc said:
Blackpuddin said:
Get shot of the whole lot of em and Parliament, parties don't represent anybody but themselves and their own interests.
And do what instead?Blackpuddin said:
Eric Mc said:
Blackpuddin said:
Get shot of the whole lot of em and Parliament, parties don't represent anybody but themselves and their own interests.
And do what instead?And you think a national rotating body of conscripted individuals will be better? Any examples where this has been tried?
And being the UK, do you think you could get Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales to go along with this?
Eric Mc said:
Blackpuddin said:
Eric Mc said:
Blackpuddin said:
Get shot of the whole lot of em and Parliament, parties don't represent anybody but themselves and their own interests.
And do what instead?And you think a national rotating body of conscripted individuals will be better? Any examples where this has been tried?
And being the UK, do you think you could get Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales to go along with this?
It works out quite well as you get a diversity of background and thought which you dont get with local elections.
Why is someone who proposes themselves and is elected any better than a random chosen? Most local elections are decided by a very small percentage of the local population.
Eric Mc said:
Blackpuddin said:
Eric Mc said:
Blackpuddin said:
Get shot of the whole lot of em and Parliament, parties don't represent anybody but themselves and their own interests.
And do what instead?And you think a national rotating body of conscripted individuals will be better? Any examples where this has been tried?
And being the UK, do you think you could get Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales to go along with this?
Eric Mc said:
Blackpuddin said:
Eric Mc said:
Blackpuddin said:
Get shot of the whole lot of em and Parliament, parties don't represent anybody but themselves and their own interests.
And do what instead?And you think a national rotating body of conscripted individuals will be better? Any examples where this has been tried?
And being the UK, do you think you could get Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales to go along with this?
'And you think a national rotating body of conscripted individuals will be better?'
Yes I do.
'Any examples where this has been tried?'
Are you saying that not having tried something invalidates it? I'm very surprised to hear you say that, given your posts on space exploration.
'And being the UK, do you think you could get Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales to go along with this?'
Why would they not? Arguably they're more likely to 'go along with it' if they felt it would give them more local representation.
Arguably, you can say anything because it's never been tried and nobody knows.
Before you knock down any structural forms of government, you must be 100% sure that you have a working alternative ready to go.
If you don't, you end up with anarchy and death. Just look at virtually every country that has had any sort of political revolution in its history.
Unless of course, you want death and misery to be visited on us all. If that is the case, then you are mad and dangerous.,
Shouting "they are all as bad as each other" is the argument of someone who is a politically naive nincompoop.
Before you knock down any structural forms of government, you must be 100% sure that you have a working alternative ready to go.
If you don't, you end up with anarchy and death. Just look at virtually every country that has had any sort of political revolution in its history.
Unless of course, you want death and misery to be visited on us all. If that is the case, then you are mad and dangerous.,
Shouting "they are all as bad as each other" is the argument of someone who is a politically naive nincompoop.
Blackpuddin said:
'Any examples where this has been tried?'
Are you saying that not having tried something invalidates it? I'm very surprised to hear you say that, given your posts on space exploration.
Space exploration is inherently risky and has a tendency to go horribly wrong.Are you saying that not having tried something invalidates it? I'm very surprised to hear you say that, given your posts on space exploration.
I prefer government to be stable, risk averse and boring. If that means someone else has to test out new systems of government first before one of the world’s largest economies takes a punt, I think that’s ok.
Eric Mc said:
Arguably, you can say anything because it's never been tried and nobody knows.
Before you knock down any structural forms of government, you must be 100% sure that you have a working alternative ready to go.
If you don't, you end up with anarchy and death. Just look at virtually every country that has had any sort of political revolution in its history.
Unless of course, you want death and misery to be visited on us all. If that is the case, then you are mad and dangerous.,
Shouting "they are all as bad as each other" is the argument of someone who is a politically naive nincompoop.
Thanks for the lesson. Maybe you should be in charge, blessed as you clearly are with omniscience. Try toning down the insulting arrogance though as we've already got plenty of that with the current setup. Before you knock down any structural forms of government, you must be 100% sure that you have a working alternative ready to go.
If you don't, you end up with anarchy and death. Just look at virtually every country that has had any sort of political revolution in its history.
Unless of course, you want death and misery to be visited on us all. If that is the case, then you are mad and dangerous.,
Shouting "they are all as bad as each other" is the argument of someone who is a politically naive nincompoop.
768 said:
Blackpuddin said:
'Any examples where this has been tried?'
Are you saying that not having tried something invalidates it? I'm very surprised to hear you say that, given your posts on space exploration.
Space exploration is inherently risky and has a tendency to go horribly wrong.Are you saying that not having tried something invalidates it? I'm very surprised to hear you say that, given your posts on space exploration.
I prefer government to be stable, risk averse and boring.
abzmike said:
Seems there are over 50 members of the house currently under investigation for offences of varying severity, so almost 10%. Innocent until proven guilty, but would any other workplace or organisation put up with that without radical change in the way it is constituted?
I mentioned this with the last one (a week or two ago?).There seems to be something toxic with the whole HoC set up - bullying accusations, sexual misconduct, MPs with violence issues. And it's across all parties.
I wonder if the "traditions" and "history" of the place are a factor, giving these idiots more of an impression that they're somehow different to the rest of us. Or maybe it's just that the character traits we are seeing are part and parcel of people who want to be MPs (thpugh this didn't seem as bad previously).
I mentioned previously that I'm more and more of the opinion that the HoC should be replaced by a proper, non-adversarial debating and voting chamber, purpose built accommodation...do all this in a part of the country that needs investment - a proper s
t hole so that the MPs can work amongst the issues they need to come together to fix - and then assign the HoC as a tourist attraction.The whole structure of our political set up needs a bloody good revamp from top to bottom.
Meanwhile, if this one is found guilty he needs to be booted immediately.
Murph7355 said:
I wonder if the "traditions" and "history" of the place are a factor, giving these idiots more of an impression that they're somehow different to the rest of us.
Membership of the HoC 'club' is a wonderful lifestyle choice, the dreamy traditions and subsidies detach even the most zealous and well-meaning local representatives from reality. abzmike said:
Seems there are over 50 members of the house currently under investigation for offences of varying severity, so almost 10%. Innocent until proven guilty, but would any other workplace or organisation put up with that without radical change in the way it is constituted?
SNP.Blackpuddin said:
'We already have local representatives looking after local interests.' If you're referring to local councillors there you know as well as I do that they all follow the party line whether it's in the local interest or not.
That isn't the case, BP - at least rarely the case. There is so little affinity to the party line at a local level as to question the validity of party politics in any way being relevant at this level of government. The primary benefit is that it creates voting groups without which nothing would ever get done where decisions are left to a bunch of Independents. The media likes to latch onto party gains and losses at local election times because it does indicate national opinion on the state of government but this is only because the vast majority of the electorate do not fully understand how local government operates.Blackpuddin said:
'And you think a national rotating body of conscripted individuals will be better?'
Yes I do.
'Any examples where this has been tried?'
Have a look at Bosnia and Herzegovina; a country that has three - THREE - prime ministers who rotate power every eight months, each representing the primary ethnic groups: Bosniak, Serb and Croat, none of whom care much about the other. Each spends their eight months in power undoing what the guy before did and starting to do their thing which never gets done because the next guy takes office and does the same.... and repeat. Yes I do.
'Any examples where this has been tried?'
By rights, Bosnia and Herzegovina should be a vibrant, prosperous country moving progressively towards EU integration. But as things stand, it can just about avoid tripping over itself as a direct result of the sort of approach to government you posit as being an effective alternative.
I have experience of working with around 150 UK local authorities and on government projects in close to 30 countries - mostly low and middle income nations at regional and national levels. I have a pretty good inside line on how governments operate and their relative effectiveness. What we have in the UK is not perfect by any measure - but no system of government, democratic or otherwise, ever is or ever will be. But when you make peace with that fact, you have to conclude that way in which the UK is governed is the best you are ever likely to find anywhere.
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