Conservative MP arrested for rape and sexual assault
Discussion
Electro1980 said:
Sorry, I should have been a little clearer. The the civil service will be smaller once the current cuts, to remove those people employed specifically for Brexit and the pandemic, have been implemented.
However, the point remains that there are less people doing the day to day job of running the country (excluding the 90k there for a specific, short term, reason) than there ever has been, so your complaints about there being too many is rather questionable unless you can provide explicit information on where the issues are.
You think a fifth of the civil service are in temporary roles specific to Brexit and covid? Don’t hold your breath waiting for that 90k to go, when they’ve gone I’ll agree the civil service isn’t over staffed, whether it’s correctly staffed is another issue. Then there’s the rest of central government, which is at some 3.5 million up from the 2.3 million when the ONS started counting 20 years ago. Good job we’ve had efficiency savings.However, the point remains that there are less people doing the day to day job of running the country (excluding the 90k there for a specific, short term, reason) than there ever has been, so your complaints about there being too many is rather questionable unless you can provide explicit information on where the issues are.
Countdown said:
I think they are right A block ban would be wrong, we have a justice system based on innocence until proven guilty and that should be protected
An allegation is just that until it is tested and proven
To ban any member from the estate because of an allegation would be wrong and open to all kinds of abuse/malicious practice
It becomes somewhat different once a person is charged with an offence but certain charged offences have the ability to destroy the lives and reputation of the accused … who it must be remembered is still innocent in the eyes of the Law until the guilt has been proven in a court of Law
Once someone is convicted then feel free to blare their name from every rooftop .. but until that point we must be very wary of our actions
Milkyway said:
Countdown said:
OnTheBreadline said:
Worthwhile to investigate this one, instead of who's been eating f
king cake or curry.
If there's one kind of cake that Boris doesn't need to eat it's fking cake or curry. king CakeEdited by Chris Type R on Thursday 19th May 19:09
Edited by Chris Type R on Thursday 19th May 19:10
Earthdweller said:
XCP said:
Would you apply the above to Police officers under investigation?
That is applied to Police officers under investigation Police officers aren’t automatically suspended because of an allegation against them
If a Police officer was accused of rape and sexual assault they weren't suspended would they be allowed to be alone with a female?
Say a victim of rape or sexual assault?
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: Genuine question.
If a Police officer was accused of rape and sexual assault they weren't suspended would they be allowed to be alone with a female?
Say a victim of rape or sexual assault?
It depends on the circumstances, each case is treated on an individual basis, which ultimately is correct If a Police officer was accused of rape and sexual assault they weren't suspended would they be allowed to be alone with a female?
Say a victim of rape or sexual assault?
There is of course a difference between an allegation and an accusation. If they were charged ( accused ) then I’d expect suspension without doubt in a serious case sexual offence or otherwise
That's fair enough I guess.
What surprises me about this case is that as I understand it the guy has been arrested on suspicion of multiple sexual offences including rape and is still free to practise as an MP but has been told to keep away from Parliament.
Still has the whip so presumably is still holding surgeries under the Conservative brand.
How does that work and look if a constituent who is a victim of rape or domestic violence wants to discuss their case with their friendly local MP?
Feels like a right old mess and can't help but think there are duty of care concerns around those constituents unless the (unnamed) MP isn't holding surgeries.
What surprises me about this case is that as I understand it the guy has been arrested on suspicion of multiple sexual offences including rape and is still free to practise as an MP but has been told to keep away from Parliament.
Still has the whip so presumably is still holding surgeries under the Conservative brand.
How does that work and look if a constituent who is a victim of rape or domestic violence wants to discuss their case with their friendly local MP?
Feels like a right old mess and can't help but think there are duty of care concerns around those constituents unless the (unnamed) MP isn't holding surgeries.
Earthdweller said:
XCP said:
Would you apply the above to Police officers under investigation?
That is applied to Police officers under investigation Police officers aren’t automatically suspended because of an allegation against them
Regardless, it seems wise all round not to hang around at the allegation stage any longer than necessary.
768 said:
Earthdweller said:
XCP said:
Would you apply the above to Police officers under investigation?
That is applied to Police officers under investigation Police officers aren’t automatically suspended because of an allegation against them
Regardless, it seems wise all round not to hang around at the allegation stage any longer than necessary.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: That's fair enough I guess.
What surprises me about this case is that as I understand it the guy has been arrested on suspicion of multiple sexual offences including rape and is still free to practise as an MP but has been told to keep away from Parliament.
Still has the whip so presumably is still holding surgeries under the Conservative brand.
How does that work and look if a constituent who is a victim of rape or domestic violence wants to discuss their case with their friendly local MP?
Feels like a right old mess and can't help but think there are duty of care concerns around those constituents unless the (unnamed) MP isn't holding surgeries.
What must be remembered is that Arrest is a process of the investigation What surprises me about this case is that as I understand it the guy has been arrested on suspicion of multiple sexual offences including rape and is still free to practise as an MP but has been told to keep away from Parliament.
Still has the whip so presumably is still holding surgeries under the Conservative brand.
How does that work and look if a constituent who is a victim of rape or domestic violence wants to discuss their case with their friendly local MP?
Feels like a right old mess and can't help but think there are duty of care concerns around those constituents unless the (unnamed) MP isn't holding surgeries.
It does two things:
1. It unlocks a lot of powers that the investigators can use to gather evidence in the case
2. It offers protection to the detainee with whom the Police are now forced by Law to treat fairly, openly and honestly and in accordance with PACE and the Codes of Practice … it protects the rights of the person under investigation
What it isn’t is an indicator of guilt or proof that the arrested person has done anything wrong
Yes of course there are duty of care issues, for both the MP and any persons they may come into contact with, but unless the Crown decides that there is a case to answer and charges the MP then it is as you say a grey area and a bit of a mess
I would suggest that some form of safeguarding would have to be put in place in any constituency meeting for the protection of both sides
It is of course entirely possible that there is no substance to the allegations and that the investigation won’t result in a charge and a court case, nor even if it does a conviction
So yep, muddy waters as they say
Edited by Earthdweller on Thursday 19th May 20:22
XCP said:
Would you apply the above to Police officers under investigation?
I wouldn't:Ryan Canning the Devon and Cornwall police officer prosecuted by his own while they withheld such as the women that had made the allegations had communicated with each other before hand. His Lawyer opined withholding such evidence was corruption or incompetence.
Alex Salmond and the allegations against him and who made those allegations?
Wayne Couzens? Well should he have been able to transfer between forces given the Register the College of Policing are supposed to keep, a change made after PC Simon Harwood shoved over Ian Tomlinson at the G20 protest?
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: That's fair enough I guess.
What surprises me about this case is that as I understand it the guy has been arrested on suspicion of multiple sexual offences including rape and is still free to practise as an MP but has been told to keep away from Parliament.
Still has the whip so presumably is still holding surgeries under the Conservative brand.
How does that work and look if a constituent who is a victim of rape or domestic violence wants to discuss their case with their friendly local MP?
Feels like a right old mess and can't help but think there are duty of care concerns around those constituents unless the (unnamed) MP isn't holding surgeries.
I think MP are different in the fact they aren't technically employed, they are the voted representative of the people and removing them would mean interfering in a democratic process.What surprises me about this case is that as I understand it the guy has been arrested on suspicion of multiple sexual offences including rape and is still free to practise as an MP but has been told to keep away from Parliament.
Still has the whip so presumably is still holding surgeries under the Conservative brand.
How does that work and look if a constituent who is a victim of rape or domestic violence wants to discuss their case with their friendly local MP?
Feels like a right old mess and can't help but think there are duty of care concerns around those constituents unless the (unnamed) MP isn't holding surgeries.
NWTony said:
I think MP are different in the fact they aren't technically employed, they are the voted representative of the people and removing them would mean interfering in a democratic process.
I can see that side of it.But Mrs Jones walking in to sit down and discuss the sexual abuse and rape case that's ongoing about her husband unaware she's sitting in a room discussing it with a bloke who's out on bail having been arrested on suspicion of multiple sexual offences isn't exactly good is it
Earthdweller said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: That's fair enough I guess.
What surprises me about this case is that as I understand it the guy has been arrested on suspicion of multiple sexual offences including rape and is still free to practise as an MP but has been told to keep away from Parliament.
Still has the whip so presumably is still holding surgeries under the Conservative brand.
How does that work and look if a constituent who is a victim of rape or domestic violence wants to discuss their case with their friendly local MP?
Feels like a right old mess and can't help but think there are duty of care concerns around those constituents unless the (unnamed) MP isn't holding surgeries.
What must be remembered is that Arrest is a process of the investigation What surprises me about this case is that as I understand it the guy has been arrested on suspicion of multiple sexual offences including rape and is still free to practise as an MP but has been told to keep away from Parliament.
Still has the whip so presumably is still holding surgeries under the Conservative brand.
How does that work and look if a constituent who is a victim of rape or domestic violence wants to discuss their case with their friendly local MP?
Feels like a right old mess and can't help but think there are duty of care concerns around those constituents unless the (unnamed) MP isn't holding surgeries.
It does two things:
1. It unlocks a lot of powers that the investigators can use to gather evidence in the case
2. It offers protection to the detainee with whom the Police are now forced by Law to treat fairly, openly and honestly and in accordance with PACE and the Codes of Practice … it protects the rights of the person under investigation
What it isn’t is an indicator of guilt or proof that the arrested person has done anything wrong
Yes of course there are duty of care issues, for both the MP and any persons they may come into contact with, but unless the Crown decides that there is a case to answer and charges the MP then it is as you say a grey area and a bit of a mess
I would suggest that some form of safeguarding would have to be put in place in any constituency meeting for the protection of both sides
It is of course entirely possible that there is no substance to the allegations and that the investigation won’t result in a charge and a court case, nor even if it does a conviction
So yep, muddy waters as they say
Edited by Earthdweller on Thursday 19th May 20:22
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