RMT union vote for a national rail strike

[monkfish1]

Leicester Loyal said:

monkfish1 said:

You keep going on about this 23k. Thats what they pay. If its not enough, get another job. Or promotion.

Or go on strike and bang a few more nails in your own coffins.

If we all left you’d be on here moaning the trains weren’t running

If you think that’s the case then sit back and relax, knowing we’re only harming ourselves, hopefully you’re not mistaken.

If you all left, they would up the pay.

[ZedLeg]

faa77 said:

ZedLeg said:

faa77 said:

ZedLeg said:

I wonder how many of the anti union people here actually live the dog eat dog, survival of the fittest life they’re clearly a fan of.

The fact you think anti-union means supporter of dog-eat-dog says it all.

The purpose of unions is to support workers in disputes with management, what’s the alternative for people who aren’t part of one?

I joked earlier about only getting a 6% pay rise this year, that was the highest pay rise for someone not being promoted in the whole company and I had to fight tooth and nail for it. For me to get it other people got less than they might have got otherwise, what is that if not dog eat dog?

You get 6% payrise....

So your company increases the price of its goods/services by 6%....

So if all companies did this, prices of all goods/services increase by 6%.....

So what was the point of the pay rise?

Edited by faa77 on Wednesday 25th May 22:03

That’s not how it works.

We have a budget for salary increases based on our performance last year. Everyone got a small cost of living adjustment (even though the UK adjustment wasn’t even close to actually covering cost of living increases) then the rest was divvied up for other raises. It’s not like I was taking money straight out of the till

[Leicester Loyal]

monkfish1 said:

With respect, id say you have swallowed it all, hook, line and sinker. Which is exactly where the union want you. Supporting their cause. Hating "management". As though they were some alternative breed.

Believe me, they are not supporting yours. At some point in your career you wil hopefuilly realise. I realised, early on. I did the remaing 15 years of my time with no representation. Didnt need it. Did what was required and rewarded accordingly.

If you are short of bodies, why are you worried about redundancy? Sure, elsewhere, there will be too many people. You think the give a st about you if you have to go. Theres going to have to be redundancies if passenger numbers stay where they are. You cant seriously expect otherwise?

As for your link, its laughable you pay any attention to such drivel. That such a thing can influence yours, or any one elses decisions just proves my point. To much winding each other up in the mess room.

Look after number one first. Think for yourself.

Appreciate the advice, will take it all on board, nice to have discussions like these.

Have a good evening!

[faa77]

ZedLeg said:

faa77 said:

ZedLeg said:

faa77 said:

ZedLeg said:

I wonder how many of the anti union people here actually live the dog eat dog, survival of the fittest life they’re clearly a fan of.

The fact you think anti-union means supporter of dog-eat-dog says it all.

The purpose of unions is to support workers in disputes with management, what’s the alternative for people who aren’t part of one?

I joked earlier about only getting a 6% pay rise this year, that was the highest pay rise for someone not being promoted in the whole company and I had to fight tooth and nail for it. For me to get it other people got less than they might have got otherwise, what is that if not dog eat dog?

You get 6% payrise....

So your company increases the price of its goods/services by 6%....

So if all companies did this, prices of all goods/services increase by 6%.....

So what was the point of the pay rise?

Edited by faa77 on Wednesday 25th May 22:03

That’s not how it works.

We have a budget for salary increases based on our performance last year. Everyone got a small cost of living adjustment (even though the UK adjustment wasn’t even close to actually covering cost of living increases) then the rest was divvied up for other raises. It’s not like I was taking money straight out of the till

I'm discussing economics (not your specific company).

If everyone gets a pay rise, where does the money come from? The magic money tree?

[faa77]

ZedLeg said:

faa77 said:

ZedLeg said:

faa77 said:

ZedLeg said:

I wonder how many of the anti union people here actually live the dog eat dog, survival of the fittest life they’re clearly a fan of.

The fact you think anti-union means supporter of dog-eat-dog says it all.

The purpose of unions is to support workers in disputes with management, what’s the alternative for people who aren’t part of one?

I joked earlier about only getting a 6% pay rise this year, that was the highest pay rise for someone not being promoted in the whole company and I had to fight tooth and nail for it. For me to get it other people got less than they might have got otherwise, what is that if not dog eat dog?

You get 6% payrise....

So your company increases the price of its goods/services by 6%....

So if all companies did this, prices of all goods/services increase by 6%.....

So what was the point of the pay rise?

Edited by faa77 on Wednesday 25th May 22:03

That’s not how it works.

We have a budget for salary increases based on our performance last year. Everyone got a small cost of living adjustment (even though the UK adjustment wasn’t even close to actually covering cost of living increases) then the rest was divvied up for other raises. It’s not like I was taking money straight out of the till

I'm discussing economics (not your specific company).

If everyone gets a pay rise, where does the money come from? The magic money tree?

[legzr1]

monkfish1 said:

.

Its sad to see this happening to an industry i spent more than half my working life in.

Doing what?

[ZedLeg]

faa77 said:

I'm discussing economics (not your specific company).

If everyone gets a pay rise, where does the money come from? The magic money tree?

Still doesn’t work that way, if a 6% rise in the wage bill is directly equatable to a 6% drop in revenue or even profit your company has bigger problems than paying it’s staff enough.

[Welshbeef]

faa77 said:

ZedLeg said:

faa77 said:

ZedLeg said:

faa77 said:

ZedLeg said:

I wonder how many of the anti union people here actually live the dog eat dog, survival of the fittest life they’re clearly a fan of.

The fact you think anti-union means supporter of dog-eat-dog says it all.

The purpose of unions is to support workers in disputes with management, what’s the alternative for people who aren’t part of one?

I joked earlier about only getting a 6% pay rise this year, that was the highest pay rise for someone not being promoted in the whole company and I had to fight tooth and nail for it. For me to get it other people got less than they might have got otherwise, what is that if not dog eat dog?

You get 6% payrise....

So your company increases the price of its goods/services by 6%....

So if all companies did this, prices of all goods/services increase by 6%.....

So what was the point of the pay rise?

Edited by faa77 on Wednesday 25th May 22:03

That’s not how it works.

We have a budget for salary increases based on our performance last year. Everyone got a small cost of living adjustment (even though the UK adjustment wasn’t even close to actually covering cost of living increases) then the rest was divvied up for other raises. It’s not like I was taking money straight out of the till

I'm discussing economics (not your specific company).

If everyone gets a pay rise, where does the money come from? The magic money tree?

And this is the issue with NLW. It could be we are now at the rate where it is inflationary.

To think an unskilled full time toilet cleaner gets £20k and so many other roles with more responsibility barely on much more… say no more.

[ZedLeg]

Everyone deserves to earn a decent wage for a day’s work.

[Vasco]

ZedLeg said:

Everyone deserves to earn a decent wage for a day’s work.

Absolutely correct. Some who join 'bully' unions to threaten employers shouldn't receive salaries that are way over their true worth for the tasks they carry out.

[Welshbeef]

ZedLeg said:

Everyone deserves to earn a decent wage for a day’s work.

Well everyone assuming performance and behaviours are there need to earn the rate for the job they do.

If job x is worth £24k then it’s £24k. If it suddenly is more valuable - what value has increased to give it more £ for the worker?

[ZedLeg]

Vasco said:

ZedLeg said:

Everyone deserves to earn a decent wage for a day’s work.

Absolutely correct. Some who join 'bully' unions to threaten employers shouldn't receive salaries that are way over their true worth for the tasks they carry out.

How is what you said in any way related to what I said?

Just out of curiousity, if we were to ban unions and get rid of government rules like minimum wage and the WTD. What exactly would stop employers from exploiting bottom rung workers?

[Welshbeef]

ZedLeg said:

How is what you said in any way related to what I said?

Just out of curiousity, if we were to ban unions and get rid of government rules like minimum wage and the WTD. What exactly would stop employers from exploiting bottom rung workers?

More vacancies and than unemployed.
1.2 m vacancies currently Which is net more than unemployed.

Your angle comes over that you generally think employers are bad? If that’s your personal experience I feel sad that you’ve had those experiences. Conversely I’ve had only good employees. I would genuinely suggest you move company.

Companies need to be attractive for employees - this is why now if some companies state you MUST work in the office 5 days a week when competitors do not have that requirement/are flexible then people move accordingly.

[ZedLeg]

The company I work for is great. I’m not under any illusions as to what our relationship is though.

The relationship between employer and employee is inherently uneven. The employee needs their job to live, whereas the company is constantly trying to minimise their investment in them and only needs them for as long as they are valuable.

This is why it’s good that there are mechanisms in place to try and make sure that workers aren’t exploited. Be it unions or government policy.

[Vasco]

ZedLeg said:

Vasco said:

ZedLeg said:

Everyone deserves to earn a decent wage for a day’s work.

Absolutely correct. Some who join 'bully' unions to threaten employers shouldn't receive salaries that are way over their true worth for the tasks they carry out.

How is what you said in any way related to what I said?

Just out of curiousity, if we were to ban unions and get rid of government rules like minimum wage and the WTD. What exactly would stop employers from exploiting bottom rung workers?

To me, 'decent' encompasses 'fair'.

Not sure why you are suggesting banning unions or removing sensible laws. There's plenty of good unions out there, just a few who are in a position to attempt to hold the employer/country to ransom (i.e RMT).

[Johnnytheboy]

ZedLeg said:

The company I work for is great. I’m not under any illusions as to what our relationship is though.

The relationship between employer and employee is inherently uneven. The employee needs their job to live, whereas the company is constantly trying to minimise their investment in them and only needs them for as long as they are valuable.

This is why it’s good that there are mechanisms in place to try and make sure that workers aren’t exploited. Be it unions or government policy.

Yes, but the employee may leave at any time and it benefits the employer to try and retain staff.

[98elise]

valiant said:

And what’s the average salary for a nurse in London?

Not starting salary but the average for a nurse as the poster I replied to mentioned?

And why the heck do people always compare nurses to tube drivers? Is it some sort of metric used to calculate inflation or something? Every bleedin’ time tube or train drivers salaries are mentioned someone brings out the nurses.

Just accept that different professions pay different salaries.

A nurse needs a degree, and is doing a job that involves people lives. It doesn't pay that well becasue enough people want to do it. It is a desirable job at that wage.


Different professions pay more because of the skills required, and the desirability of the work

Rail workers get paid more because they work in a monopoly and can blackmail the country.

If there was any competition unionised rail would fail within a very short space of time.

Unions started out with good intent, but they have developed into a mafia. I'd love to see the back of them.

[ZedLeg]

Johnnytheboy said:

ZedLeg said:

The company I work for is great. I’m not under any illusions as to what our relationship is though.

The relationship between employer and employee is inherently uneven. The employee needs their job to live, whereas the company is constantly trying to minimise their investment in them and only needs them for as long as they are valuable.

This is why it’s good that there are mechanisms in place to try and make sure that workers aren’t exploited. Be it unions or government policy.

Yes, but the employee may leave at any time and it benefits the employer to try and retain staff.

In theory that’s true but it’s not viable if you’re living pay cheque to pay cheque as a lot of people who are on the minimum wage are.

[ZedLeg]

Vasco said:

ZedLeg said:

Vasco said:

ZedLeg said:

Everyone deserves to earn a decent wage for a day’s work.

Absolutely correct. Some who join 'bully' unions to threaten employers shouldn't receive salaries that are way over their true worth for the tasks they carry out.

How is what you said in any way related to what I said?

Just out of curiousity, if we were to ban unions and get rid of government rules like minimum wage and the WTD. What exactly would stop employers from exploiting bottom rung workers?

To me, 'decent' encompasses 'fair'.

Not sure why you are suggesting banning unions or removing sensible laws. There's plenty of good unions out there, just a few who are in a position to attempt to hold the employer/country to ransom (i.e RMT).

The second part of my post was a more general question to the room.

[98elise]

ZedLeg said:

Everyone deserves to earn a decent wage for a day’s work.

So choose a job that pays well. It might take more effort or there may be compromises, but that's why it pays more. That's now those difficult jobs get filled.

Simple jobs will always pay less. You can't pay a decent (say average) wage for an entry level job. The money has to come from somewhere and that mean inflation so you end up back where you were.