RMT union vote for a national rail strike
Discussion
ChocolateFrog said:
Have we had this.
BBC News - Thousands of PwC staff to get 9% pay rise to offset cost of living
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61941595
It's ok for well paid white collar workers, just not us unionised folk.
I mean, I guess the rail workers could go work at PwC. BBC News - Thousands of PwC staff to get 9% pay rise to offset cost of living
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61941595
It's ok for well paid white collar workers, just not us unionised folk.
Rather than stop turning up at their current job, but expect their positions to be kept for them while they were off.
ChocolateFrog said:
Have we had this.
BBC News - Thousands of PwC staff to get 9% pay rise to offset cost of living
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61941595
It's ok for well paid white collar workers, just not us unionised folk.
I am sure that those that deserve it will get a good pay rise, just like PWC.BBC News - Thousands of PwC staff to get 9% pay rise to offset cost of living
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61941595
It's ok for well paid white collar workers, just not us unionised folk.
Unlike PWC, who have lots of profits that can be used, the rail industry is under pressure and so the capacity to pay more will have to come from efficiencies. The taxpayer is not going to simply write a blank cheque.
vulture1 said:
ChocolateFrog said:
Have we had this.
BBC News - Thousands of PwC staff to get 9% pay rise to offset cost of living
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61941595
It's ok for well paid white collar workers, just not us unionised folk.
they will just add more to their customers bills.BBC News - Thousands of PwC staff to get 9% pay rise to offset cost of living
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61941595
It's ok for well paid white collar workers, just not us unionised folk.
They stayed at home , no worries about their jobs, no exposure to covid when it was a real threat/ worry for people. And now we declare that there is a shortage of this type of employee? Really? Or are they all just working from home doing less.
faa77 said:
Why don't the Tories change the law to prevent these strikes?
An outright ban on unions would be too controversial but they could require 99% of eligible staff to vote in favour, effectively banning strikes.
Mmm interesting thought- would that suggestion also apply to any other votes or just for strike action? An outright ban on unions would be too controversial but they could require 99% of eligible staff to vote in favour, effectively banning strikes.
Johnnytheboy said:
ChocolateFrog said:
Have we had this.
BBC News - Thousands of PwC staff to get 9% pay rise to offset cost of living
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61941595
It's ok for well paid white collar workers, just not us unionised folk.
I mean, I guess the rail workers could go work at PwC. BBC News - Thousands of PwC staff to get 9% pay rise to offset cost of living
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61941595
It's ok for well paid white collar workers, just not us unionised folk.
Rather than stop turning up at their current job, but expect their positions to be kept for them while they were off.
Boringvolvodriver said:
faa77 said:
Why don't the Tories change the law to prevent these strikes?
An outright ban on unions would be too controversial but they could require 99% of eligible staff to vote in favour, effectively banning strikes.
Mmm interesting thought- would that suggestion also apply to any other votes or just for strike action? An outright ban on unions would be too controversial but they could require 99% of eligible staff to vote in favour, effectively banning strikes.
Bathroom_Security said:
Let's hope they do and it signals the end of these draconian unions
Time is the killer, the unions will bank on dragging this out, but you do have changes in how people use trains, work from home etc and inflation so high, how long can the union members take not getting paid on strike days.This whole thing does smack of the the 1970s strikes and even though the union boss has all the answers, I don't buy it myself.
Ouroboros said:
Time is the killer, the unions will bank on dragging this out, but you do have changes in how people use trains, work from home etc and inflation so high, how long can the union members take not getting paid on strike days.
This whole thing does smack of the the 1970s strikes and even though the union boss has all the answers, I don't buy it myself.
Problem is that the only train users left are probably Labour voters or Green already. This whole thing does smack of the the 1970s strikes and even though the union boss has all the answers, I don't buy it myself.
All of the commuters who used to get upset (and voted Conservative in the main) are now able to WFH. As far as they are concerned, rail strikes are great.
Just looking at the stats.
Train journeys for first quarter of 2022, were down nearly 38% of 2019 figures. That is pretty massive.
No redundancies though, ffs.
https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/statistics/usage/pas...
"However, the 275 million journeys equate to 62.1% of the 443
million journeys made between 1 January and 31 March 2019, which
was the last equivalent quarter before the pandemic."
The reality is the strike could push more people not to use trains, forever, and therefore seal their own fate on the train workers, times are a changing.
Like I've said it feels like they have real grasp on the actual realities taking place after cv19 .
Train journeys for first quarter of 2022, were down nearly 38% of 2019 figures. That is pretty massive.
No redundancies though, ffs.
https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/statistics/usage/pas...
"However, the 275 million journeys equate to 62.1% of the 443
million journeys made between 1 January and 31 March 2019, which
was the last equivalent quarter before the pandemic."
The reality is the strike could push more people not to use trains, forever, and therefore seal their own fate on the train workers, times are a changing.
Like I've said it feels like they have real grasp on the actual realities taking place after cv19 .
ChocolateFrog said:
Have we had this.
BBC News - Thousands of PwC staff to get 9% pay rise to offset cost of living
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61941595
It's ok for well paid white collar workers, just not us unionised folk.
So a profitable private sector organisation can increase salaries at between 7%-9% while likely also raising their fees by at least 5%. Unless they are asking the government to fund this pay rise then it is hard to see the relevance here. BBC News - Thousands of PwC staff to get 9% pay rise to offset cost of living
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61941595
It's ok for well paid white collar workers, just not us unionised folk.
The railways lose money and the only way to fund large pay rises is to reform how it works or increase the public subsidy.
Ouroboros said:
Just looking at the stats.
Train journeys for first quarter of 2022, were down nearly 38% of 2019 figures. That is pretty massive.
No redundancies though, ffs.
https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/statistics/usage/pas...
"However, the 275 million journeys equate to 62.1% of the 443
million journeys made between 1 January and 31 March 2019, which
was the last equivalent quarter before the pandemic."
The reality is the strike could push more people not to use trains, forever, and therefore seal their own fate on the train workers, times are a changing.
Like I've said it feels like they have real grasp on the actual realities taking place after cv19 .
I think I have seen some figures out there for May which suggest things have improved since most offices reopened but it still hasn't gone back to pre-pandemic levels. Train journeys for first quarter of 2022, were down nearly 38% of 2019 figures. That is pretty massive.
No redundancies though, ffs.
https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/statistics/usage/pas...
"However, the 275 million journeys equate to 62.1% of the 443
million journeys made between 1 January and 31 March 2019, which
was the last equivalent quarter before the pandemic."
The reality is the strike could push more people not to use trains, forever, and therefore seal their own fate on the train workers, times are a changing.
Like I've said it feels like they have real grasp on the actual realities taking place after cv19 .
Edited by JagLover on Monday 27th June 06:17
faa77 said:
Boringvolvodriver said:
faa77 said:
Why don't the Tories change the law to prevent these strikes?
An outright ban on unions would be too controversial but they could require 99% of eligible staff to vote in favour, effectively banning strikes.
Mmm interesting thought- would that suggestion also apply to any other votes or just for strike action? An outright ban on unions would be too controversial but they could require 99% of eligible staff to vote in favour, effectively banning strikes.
Ouroboros said:
Time is the killer, the unions will bank on dragging this out, but you do have changes in how people use trains, work from home etc and inflation so high, how long can the union members take not getting paid on strike days.
+1With three strike days this month, the workers are already about 10% down on their
gross wages this month.
I think I read someplace last week only 12% of the train tickets sold are by the ticket office.
Electronic tickets are very popular these days.
All businesses need to adapt to their environment. CR is part of that. The RMT union
make themselves look unrealistic in trying to ban CR. They would get a lot more public
support if they merely tried to minimise it.
Rail is great going into cities.
The pandemic showed that perhaps we don’t all need to go into cities. This will have some effect on food and retail spending if less people go in also will have an effect on transport as it will need to the paired down for the new (lesser) needs.
CR is a must have tool for a company to remain viable in case of needing to cut costs. It’s just normal business practice. Why RMT think they are special I can only believe it’s because it’s partly subsidised by Government.
Strike all you like but let’s be realistic with pay expectations. Very few people can expect pay rises above inflation or at inflection levels in this economic climate. I spend more wisely if I must, others have to do the same. It’s complicated because some people have been perhaps underpaid and pay discrepancy it’s probably an issue but you can’t fix that in one go.
Rail needs to diversify, perhaps but some services and become less of a loss than it is. They do sell tickets so some income is coming through unlike the NHS for example. Cheap train fares or lots of off peak trains running and profitability are hard. Apart from rush hour, off peak trains are mostly empty. So cut the frequency of those to start with I would say.
The pandemic showed that perhaps we don’t all need to go into cities. This will have some effect on food and retail spending if less people go in also will have an effect on transport as it will need to the paired down for the new (lesser) needs.
CR is a must have tool for a company to remain viable in case of needing to cut costs. It’s just normal business practice. Why RMT think they are special I can only believe it’s because it’s partly subsidised by Government.
Strike all you like but let’s be realistic with pay expectations. Very few people can expect pay rises above inflation or at inflection levels in this economic climate. I spend more wisely if I must, others have to do the same. It’s complicated because some people have been perhaps underpaid and pay discrepancy it’s probably an issue but you can’t fix that in one go.
Rail needs to diversify, perhaps but some services and become less of a loss than it is. They do sell tickets so some income is coming through unlike the NHS for example. Cheap train fares or lots of off peak trains running and profitability are hard. Apart from rush hour, off peak trains are mostly empty. So cut the frequency of those to start with I would say.
dcb said:
+1
With three strike days this month, the workers are already about 10% down on their
gross wages this month.
I think I read someplace last week only 12% of the train tickets sold are by the ticket office.
Electronic tickets are very popular these days.
All businesses need to adapt to their environment. CR is part of that. The RMT union
make themselves look unrealistic in trying to ban CR. They would get a lot more public
support if they merely tried to minimise it.
Things like guaranteeing retraining grants etc , surely would be a good compromise.With three strike days this month, the workers are already about 10% down on their
gross wages this month.
I think I read someplace last week only 12% of the train tickets sold are by the ticket office.
Electronic tickets are very popular these days.
All businesses need to adapt to their environment. CR is part of that. The RMT union
make themselves look unrealistic in trying to ban CR. They would get a lot more public
support if they merely tried to minimise it.
My experience from working within the rail industry there is a certain arrogance of being protected, I think it is a mindset change needed. I'm not pro government but I can see there must be changes for the rail industry to survive and reduce unnecessary costs.
valiant said:
loafer123 said:
I refer you to my previous post;
We aren’t stupid, we get that the RMT wants CR off the table, then it will agree a pay rise and working towards modernisation, then, when modernisation plans are proposed, they will say “no” and it all starts again.
It’s like they, and you, think everyone is stupid. We see what is going on.
It depends what you mean by ‘modernisation’. We aren’t stupid, we get that the RMT wants CR off the table, then it will agree a pay rise and working towards modernisation, then, when modernisation plans are proposed, they will say “no” and it all starts again.
It’s like they, and you, think everyone is stupid. We see what is going on.
If it’s about adopting new technologies and new ways of working, well, that’s being going on all the time. It’s nothing new to the railway or it’s unions.
If it’s about introducing detrimental terms and conditions that leaves the employees in a worse condition such as what’s been stated a few pages back like reducing shift allowances to near zero, more and more weekend working, supplying your own vehicle and possibly fuel, etc, etc then that’s hardly ‘modernising’ is it? That’s just an out and out attack on conditions that will lead to experienced staff leaving the business in droves making the railways less efficient and productive.
Modernisation to some means squeezing the staff until they squeak then squeezing that little bit more. It’s just a cover word that on the outside seems innocuous and reasonable but in reality is anything but.
There have been some quite ridiculous claims from Tory MPs reading off the daily script over the last week or so.
Modernisation is another way of saying 'ssving money', simple as that.
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