RMT union vote for a national rail strike
Discussion
wiggy001 said:
And yet when I and others suggested that if those in the rail industry didn't like it they should look for alternative employment as the rest of us would/do, we were told it would be impossible for rail workers to work elsewhere as their skills aren't transferable (even when pointed out that they likely were).
Was it pointed out that with a strong Union and the will to stand together there was no need to ‘look elsewhere’?Aren’t you happy there’s been an agreement reached?
Perhaps you wished the Government had held strong and smashed them just like Maggie did?
wiggy001 said:
And yet when I and others suggested that if those in the rail industry didn't like it they should look for alternative employment as the rest of us would/do, we were told it would be impossible for rail workers to work elsewhere as their skills aren't transferable (even when pointed out that they likely were).
I still don’t understand this mentality. I don’t like something so I’m going to leave rather than try to effect positive change. That’s how the race to the bottom is won.legzr1 said:
wiggy001 said:
And yet when I and others suggested that if those in the rail industry didn't like it they should look for alternative employment as the rest of us would/do, we were told it would be impossible for rail workers to work elsewhere as their skills aren't transferable (even when pointed out that they likely were).
Was it pointed out that with a strong Union and the will to stand together there was no need to ‘look elsewhere’?Aren’t you happy there’s been an agreement reached?
Perhaps you wished the Government had held strong and smashed them just like Maggie did?
djc206 said:
wiggy001 said:
And yet when I and others suggested that if those in the rail industry didn't like it they should look for alternative employment as the rest of us would/do, we were told it would be impossible for rail workers to work elsewhere as their skills aren't transferable (even when pointed out that they likely were).
I still don’t understand this mentality. I don’t like something so I’m going to leave rather than try to effect positive change. That’s how the race to the bottom is won.wiggy001 said:
“Positive” change is subjective, but this is how the world outside of unionised industries works. That you don’t understand it is part of the reason why there is so much debate on this thread.
The only thing I don’t understand is why people like you think running away from a problem is the solution to it. If something is good it’s worth fighting to keep it good, if it’s bad it’s worth fighting to make it better.It’s occasionally subjective but largely measurable ie pay, shift patterns, leave allowances etc.
djc206 said:
wiggy001 said:
“Positive” change is subjective, but this is how the world outside of unionised industries works. That you don’t understand it is part of the reason why there is so much debate on this thread.
The only thing I don’t understand is why people like you think running away from a problem is the solution to it. If something is good it’s worth fighting to keep it good, if it’s bad it’s worth fighting to make it better.It’s occasionally subjective but largely measurable ie pay, shift patterns, leave allowances etc.
I said the change being positive is subjective because I’m not sure everyone agrees that they are a good thing. The person having to pay the bill might not for example.
wiggy001 said:
You call it running away. Most others call it moving on in life to something better. Personally I’m fully aware the world doesn’t revolve around me and what I want so when things haven’t been going in the right direction as I see it, I’ve moved to a better role. Staying out forever but striking to get my own way just seems odd to me but we are all different.
I said the change being positive is subjective because I’m not sure everyone agrees that they are a good thing. The person having to pay the bill might not for example.
How will people keep finding better things in the race to the bottom that is being promoted by many of those chastising unions for fighting for employees rights? By definition conditions worsen and that greener pasture no longer exists. The chap above basically said as much, he’s conditioned to being shat on from a great height so everyone else should just suck up his crappy reality. No thanks. I said the change being positive is subjective because I’m not sure everyone agrees that they are a good thing. The person having to pay the bill might not for example.
The person paying the bill will if they gain something in return.
djc206 said:
How will people keep finding better things in the race to the bottom that is being promoted by many of those chastising unions for fighting for employees rights? By definition conditions worsen and that greener pasture no longer exists. The chap above basically said as much, he’s conditioned to being shat on from a great height so everyone else should just suck up his crappy reality. No thanks.
The person paying the bill will if they gain something in return.
Maybe Wiggy should pen a strongly worded email to DfT requesting an end to this barbaric settlement?The person paying the bill will if they gain something in return.
djc206 said:
wiggy001 said:
You call it running away. Most others call it moving on in life to something better. Personally I’m fully aware the world doesn’t revolve around me and what I want so when things haven’t been going in the right direction as I see it, I’ve moved to a better role. Staying out forever but striking to get my own way just seems odd to me but we are all different.
I said the change being positive is subjective because I’m not sure everyone agrees that they are a good thing. The person having to pay the bill might not for example.
How will people keep finding better things in the race to the bottom that is being promoted by many of those chastising unions for fighting for employees rights? By definition conditions worsen and that greener pasture no longer exists. The chap above basically said as much, he’s conditioned to being shat on from a great height so everyone else should just suck up his crappy reality. No thanks. I said the change being positive is subjective because I’m not sure everyone agrees that they are a good thing. The person having to pay the bill might not for example.
The person paying the bill will if they gain something in return.
wiggy001 said:
As this is exactly what happens in the private sector the idea that it is a race to the bottom is obviously flawed unless you believe pay and conditions are getting worse and worse across the non-unionised businesses?
It reads like there’s some conflation there. Private sector does not equal non unionised. Not necessarily but I do believe pay and conditions are getting worse across most sectors, particularly in the public sector which is why the unions are having to fight so hard at the moment.
The stats suggest pay isn’t keeping up with inflation so people are worse off, that’s undeniable. I know the plural of anecdote isn’t evidence but the consensus on this forum suggests that people are being expected to do a lot more outside of their contracted hours. This blurring of lines is to my mind a deterioration of conditions. Others on here have been commenting on seeing roles offered with fewer leave days than many of us are accustomed to. The screw does appear to be turning and it’s up to all of us to stop that. Within relatively easy to find roles sure you can vote with your feet, within vocational roles through collective bargaining and eventually if no compromise can be found, industrial action.
The whole don’t like it, move on thing irks me because for many people their line of work is a vocation not simply a way of paying their bills. We need people to stick at their vocations otherwise we’re screwed as a country. Not every role can be backfilled quickly with someone suitably skilled. The role I’m in for example takes 3 years of training, you need experienced people to train those trainees, it’s time consuming and costly and experience is extremely valuable. Nonchalantly telling people like me to suck it up or move on is monumentally shortsighted because you’d very quickly notice if we did. But we don’t because as I said it’s a vocation and something worth fighting for, enter a union.
All sorts of roles require training and experience as you say, but in the private sector, once you start losing money you are gone, it is that simple.
it has happened to me numerous times and through no fault of your own, like now for instance you are out on your ear after doing nothing wrong.
My skills were not deemed valuable obviously and my wage and those of my peers was considered get riddable.
OK you might be in a more senior position, requiring more skill and experience, but I accept this, I have no choice but to have to. I am not in the gravy train, but those that are have to accept eventually that every business needs to be run to make money and cut costs, that is a fact.
it has happened to me numerous times and through no fault of your own, like now for instance you are out on your ear after doing nothing wrong.
My skills were not deemed valuable obviously and my wage and those of my peers was considered get riddable.
OK you might be in a more senior position, requiring more skill and experience, but I accept this, I have no choice but to have to. I am not in the gravy train, but those that are have to accept eventually that every business needs to be run to make money and cut costs, that is a fact.
vulture1 said:
You know the irony of all the recent train strikes. Nothing but Facebook, YouTube radio adverts about their amazing services.
Are you suggesting that the Train Operators have an abundance of money and wasted it on advertising rather than supporting their staff during the cost of living crisis?Gareth1974 said:
vulture1 said:
You know the irony of all the recent train strikes. Nothing but Facebook, YouTube radio adverts about their amazing services.
Are you suggesting that the Train Operators have an abundance of money and wasted it on advertising rather than supporting their staff during the cost of living crisis?Vasco said:
Gareth1974 said:
vulture1 said:
You know the irony of all the recent train strikes. Nothing but Facebook, YouTube radio adverts about their amazing services.
Are you suggesting that the Train Operators have an abundance of money and wasted it on advertising rather than supporting their staff during the cost of living crisis?Vasco said:
Isn't it more likely that the Train Operators knew that they had to try to recover from the continual disruption caused by RMT action ?. There won't be as much income to pay wages otherwise.
Again you prove the point made by another poster that you know nothing about this topic. The Government give the TOC's £30m every strike day so they do not lose income.
But hey, it's yours and mine taxes that the Government can 'afford' to throw away rather than settle the dispute with a sensible offer.
Ashfordian said:
Vasco said:
Isn't it more likely that the Train Operators knew that they had to try to recover from the continual disruption caused by RMT action ?. There won't be as much income to pay wages otherwise.
Again you prove the point made by another poster that you know nothing about this topic. The Government give the TOC's £30m every strike day so they do not lose income.
But hey, it's yours and mine taxes that the Government can 'afford' to throw away rather than settle the dispute with a sensible offer.
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