RMT union vote for a national rail strike

RMT union vote for a national rail strike

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Discussion

valiant

10,226 posts

160 months

Saturday 6th May 2023
quotequote all
The Mad Monk said:
Look. It's just some random, anonymous bloke on t'internet spouting off.

Mind you, train drivers are paid too much for what is a semi-skilled job. Many/most/much of the railway lines/system is/are now automated - the Elizabeth line for example.

A good yardstick is to see how long the queue is when a job becomes vacant.
How many drivers are RMT members?

What qualifies you to judge train drivers salaries? What’s your experience and insight into the job?

What proportion of rail workers are drivers?

Hardly any of the rail network is automated. Only the central core of the Elizabeth Line is ATO (still needs a driver on board) and the outer sections is conventionally signalled.

Random bloke off the internet needs to at least read the thread before spouting off and displaying his ignorance for all to see…

The Mad Monk

10,474 posts

117 months

Saturday 6th May 2023
quotequote all
valiant said:
How many drivers are RMT members?

What qualifies you to judge train drivers salaries? What’s your experience and insight into the job?

What proportion of rail workers are drivers?

Hardly any of the rail network is automated. Only the central core of the Elizabeth Line is ATO (still needs a driver on board) and the outer sections is conventionally signalled.

Random bloke off the internet needs to at least read the thread before spouting off and displaying his ignorance for all to see…
The readership will take notice that at no point has any attempt be made to justify the sums paid to some rail workers. Just a lot of puff and bluster.

valiant

10,226 posts

160 months

Saturday 6th May 2023
quotequote all
The Mad Monk said:
valiant said:
How many drivers are RMT members?

What qualifies you to judge train drivers salaries? What’s your experience and insight into the job?

What proportion of rail workers are drivers?

Hardly any of the rail network is automated. Only the central core of the Elizabeth Line is ATO (still needs a driver on board) and the outer sections is conventionally signalled.

Random bloke off the internet needs to at least read the thread before spouting off and displaying his ignorance for all to see…
The readership will take notice that at no point has any attempt be made to justify the sums paid to some rail workers. Just a lot of puff and bluster.
So no answers then.



djc206

12,353 posts

125 months

Saturday 6th May 2023
quotequote all
The Mad Monk said:
Look. It's just some random, anonymous bloke on t'internet spouting off.

Mind you, train drivers are paid too much for what is a semi-skilled job. Many/most/much of the railway lines/system is/are now automated - the Elizabeth line for example.

A good yardstick is to see how long the queue is when a job becomes vacant.
People queue up to become pilots, special forces soldiers, doctors, firefighters etc. Most aren’t suitable or don’t pass the entry exams. It’s not a yardstick for pay.

Vasco

16,477 posts

105 months

Saturday 6th May 2023
quotequote all
valiant said:
The Mad Monk said:
valiant said:
How many drivers are RMT members?

What qualifies you to judge train drivers salaries? What’s your experience and insight into the job?

What proportion of rail workers are drivers?

Hardly any of the rail network is automated. Only the central core of the Elizabeth Line is ATO (still needs a driver on board) and the outer sections is conventionally signalled.

Random bloke off the internet needs to at least read the thread before spouting off and displaying his ignorance for all to see…
The readership will take notice that at no point has any attempt be made to justify the sums paid to some rail workers. Just a lot of puff and bluster.
So no answers then.
To be honest, it doesn't take much to realise that jobs that can attract multiple applications for any vacancies are probably well rewarded whereas ongoing vacancies, with difficulty in recruiting, probably highlights where rewards are not so attractive.
We know that most drivers are ASLEF and many other positions are RMT - one shouts occasionally, the other shouts all the time for just about anything......

Leicester Loyal

4,547 posts

122 months

Saturday 6th May 2023
quotequote all
Vasco said:
To be honest, it doesn't take much to realise that jobs that can attract multiple applications for any vacancies are probably well rewarded whereas ongoing vacancies, with difficulty in recruiting, probably highlights where rewards are not so attractive.
We know that most drivers are ASLEF and many other positions are RMT - one shouts occasionally, the other shouts all the time for just about anything......
Because ASLEF cover one position and RMT cover hundreds, they'll obviously be more 'shouts' as they'll be many more issues and a wider range of them effecting their members.

Vasco

16,477 posts

105 months

Saturday 6th May 2023
quotequote all
Leicester Loyal said:
Vasco said:
To be honest, it doesn't take much to realise that jobs that can attract multiple applications for any vacancies are probably well rewarded whereas ongoing vacancies, with difficulty in recruiting, probably highlights where rewards are not so attractive.
We know that most drivers are ASLEF and many other positions are RMT - one shouts occasionally, the other shouts all the time for just about anything......
Because ASLEF cover one position and RMT cover hundreds, they'll obviously be more 'shouts' as they'll be many more issues and a wider range of them effecting their members.
Quite - just adding in a bit of lightheartedness.....

biggrinbiggrin

Countdown

39,891 posts

196 months

Saturday 6th May 2023
quotequote all
valiant said:
What qualifies you to judge train drivers salaries?
I think recruitment and retention rates are good indicators of whether a job is adequately paid or not.

Leicester Loyal

4,547 posts

122 months

Saturday 6th May 2023
quotequote all
Vasco said:
Leicester Loyal said:
Vasco said:
To be honest, it doesn't take much to realise that jobs that can attract multiple applications for any vacancies are probably well rewarded whereas ongoing vacancies, with difficulty in recruiting, probably highlights where rewards are not so attractive.
We know that most drivers are ASLEF and many other positions are RMT - one shouts occasionally, the other shouts all the time for just about anything......
Because ASLEF cover one position and RMT cover hundreds, they'll obviously be more 'shouts' as they'll be many more issues and a wider range of them effecting their members.
Quite - just adding in a bit of lightheartedness.....

biggrinbiggrin
Apologies I always get people confused in here, never know when someone's being genuine or not anymore biggrin

Graveworm

8,496 posts

71 months

Saturday 6th May 2023
quotequote all
valiant said:
The Mad Monk said:
valiant said:
How many drivers are RMT members?

What qualifies you to judge train drivers salaries? What’s your experience and insight into the job?

What proportion of rail workers are drivers?

Hardly any of the rail network is automated. Only the central core of the Elizabeth Line is ATO (still needs a driver on board) and the outer sections is conventionally signalled.

Random bloke off the internet needs to at least read the thread before spouting off and displaying his ignorance for all to see…
The readership will take notice that at no point has any attempt be made to justify the sums paid to some rail workers. Just a lot of puff and bluster.
So no answers then.
The railways get more qualified applicants than vacancies at all grades and roles - which is not the case for all publicly funded roles. I still have heard no reason why the railway workers should get paid more, in those circumstances. rather than the roles that actually can't recruit and retain.

Ashfordian

2,057 posts

89 months

Saturday 6th May 2023
quotequote all
Graveworm said:
The railways get more qualified applicants than vacancies at all grades and roles - which is not the case for all publicly funded roles. I still have heard no reason why the railway workers should get paid more, in those circumstances. rather than the roles that actually can't recruit and retain.
Applying for a role does not mean you are capable of performing the role. See pilots, doctors, firemen, etc. And do you agree these named roles should be paid relative to the numbers that apply, or the skills/responsibility that are required for the role?

Based on the poor standard of driving on the roads, I would say 75% of people rule themselves out of being a train driver.

How many times have you been in a taxi and thought I wish the driving was better? How many times have you thought the same thing when travelling on a plane or train? I expect for the latter never, because the standard required is so much higher as the consequences of an error are so much worse.

Graveworm

8,496 posts

71 months

Saturday 6th May 2023
quotequote all
Ashfordian said:
Graveworm said:
The railways get more qualified applicants than vacancies at all grades and roles - which is not the case for all publicly funded roles. I still have heard no reason why the railway workers should get paid more, in those circumstances. rather than the roles that actually can't recruit and retain.
Applying for a role does not mean you are capable of performing the role. See pilots, doctors, firemen, etc. And do you agree these named roles should be paid relative to the numbers that apply, or the skills/responsibility that are required for the role?

Based on the poor standard of driving on the roads, I would say 75% of people rule themselves out of being a train driver.

How many times have you been in a taxi and thought I wish the driving was better? How many times have you thought the same thing when travelling on a plane or train? I expect for the latter never, because the standard required is so much higher as the consequences of an error are so much worse.
You missed out qualified from your argument.They have well below the public sector average for vacancies overall and across the board.. The operators are looking to make staff redundant, which the union are ideologically opposing. This is not indicative of an industry with recruitment issues. It is also not the case in other areas.

alangla

4,795 posts

181 months

Saturday 6th May 2023
quotequote all
Ashfordian said:
Applying for a role does not mean you are capable of performing the role. See pilots, doctors, firemen, etc. And do you agree these named roles should be paid relative to the numbers that apply, or the skills/responsibility that are required for the role?

Based on the poor standard of driving on the roads, I would say 75% of people rule themselves out of being a train driver.

How many times have you been in a taxi and thought I wish the driving was better? How many times have you thought the same thing when travelling on a plane or train? I expect for the latter never, because the standard required is so much higher as the consequences of an error are so much worse.
I’m sure if you fitted OTMR along with the external CCTV fitted to most trains then taxi driving would improve overnight. I remember some spectacularly bad driving back in pre OTMR times.

(OTMR = On Train Monitoring and Recording - think aircraft black box level of recording of driver action and the train’s response, download regularly and used to assess the driver)

On the recruitment/retention point, I’d suggest a better measure might be the ratio of suitable applicants to roles rather than just raw applicants.

Countdown

39,891 posts

196 months

Saturday 6th May 2023
quotequote all
Ashfordian said:
Applying for a role does not mean you are capable of performing the role. See pilots, doctors, firemen, etc. And do you agree these named roles should be paid relative to the numbers that apply, or the skills/responsibility that are required for the role?
There appear to be significant recruitment and retention issues with Doctors (and also Nurses, Teachers etc). As far as I'm aware Pilots, Firemen and Train drivers don't have the same issues. To me that suggests that their pay is enough to attract the necessary calibre of candidates.

legzr1

3,848 posts

139 months

Saturday 6th May 2023
quotequote all
Countdown said:
There appear to be significant recruitment and retention issues with Doctors (and also Nurses, Teachers etc). As far as I'm aware Pilots, Firemen and Train drivers don't have the same issues. To me that suggests that their pay is enough to attract the necessary calibre of candidates.
Do you have know the details of vacancies and number/calibre of applicants for jobs other than drivers? (You know, the subject of the thread?).

Countdown

39,891 posts

196 months

Saturday 6th May 2023
quotequote all
legzr1 said:
Do you have know the details of vacancies and number/calibre of applicants for jobs other than drivers? (You know, the subject of the thread?).
I don't.

My understanding is that vacancies are fairly limited because it's such a popular job.

Are Train companies struggling to recruit drivers of the necessary calibre?

irc

7,306 posts

136 months

Sunday 7th May 2023
quotequote all
Countdown said:
I don't.

My understanding is that vacancies are fairly limited because it's such a popular job.

Are Train companies struggling to recruit drivers of the necessary calibre?
It would appear not. A search for Scotrail vacancies
within 50 miles of Glasgow produced 3 management jobs and one conductor post (in Perth). Looks like near full staffing for Scotrail.

https://apply.scotrail.co.uk/vacancies

As a matter of fact a few years ago I looked for railway jobs at any level when I was between jobs. There was zero in the Glasgow area then.

Vasco

16,477 posts

105 months

Friday 19th May 2023
quotequote all
RMT call another strike for 2nd June.

Can someone have a quiet word with them and kindly point out that they have no chance of getting what they want. They are just reminding other people how Scargill etc thought they were far more important than they really were.

cirian75

4,260 posts

233 months

Friday 19th May 2023
quotequote all
Vasco said:
RMT call another strike for 2nd June.

Can someone have a quiet word with them and kindly point out that they have no chance of getting what they want. They are just reminding other people how Scargill etc thought they were far more important than they really were.
Can someone have a quiet word with the Govt and kindly point out adding very last second conditions to in principle agreed deals negotiated between the RMT and Rail Companies scuppers those deals.

But then this Govt want to have this fight.

Legacywr

12,129 posts

188 months

Friday 19th May 2023
quotequote all
cirian75 said:
Vasco said:
RMT call another strike for 2nd June.

Can someone have a quiet word with them and kindly point out that they have no chance of getting what they want. They are just reminding other people how Scargill etc thought they were far more important than they really were.
Can someone have a quiet word with the Govt and kindly point out adding very last second conditions to in principle agreed deals negotiated between the RMT and Rail Companies scuppers those deals.

But then this Govt want to have this fight.
The Govt want to beat the Union, so do quite a lot of the public.