RMT union vote for a national rail strike
Discussion
legzr1 said:
Stedman said:
TOCs also happy to put deals together for Drivers but Govt kibosh them at every opportunity.
Compare and contrast England to Scotland. Scotrail with the backing of Scottish government agreed a deal with Aslef drivers in, literally, hours. Now look at the Government in England trying not to negotiate through the TOCs with Aslef drivers in England.blueg33 said:
Also, due the ongoing strikes and the fact we can’t rely on rail, we are likely to close our central London office. So next year that’s fewer people using the trains. I know our business is not the only one thinking that. Fewer passengers = less need for train drivers.
This is what I don't understand from the scorched earth position this Government are taking. Your example also means fewer sandwich shops, fewer coffee shops, fewer office support services, and all the other ancillary services that will no longer be used.This leads to lower tax revenue and more tax burden on those already paying taxes. It's certainly not the Government who will be paying the costs of the position they have taken. It's the rest of us!
I can see ticket offices trying to be closed again in 10years time when all the oldies that stamped their feet die off or stop using the trains. There really is no need for them with e-ticketing and the machines that are much quicker than joining a line to speak to a person.
And at some point T&C’s will need to be changed with the times so more strikes to come. I watched a video about some new underground trains that London are getting. Elsewhere in the world they are driverless, due to unions in the UK they have a driver, it’s just madness that they carry that much power when the money saved on drivers could be spent elsewhere on the system improving it.
And at some point T&C’s will need to be changed with the times so more strikes to come. I watched a video about some new underground trains that London are getting. Elsewhere in the world they are driverless, due to unions in the UK they have a driver, it’s just madness that they carry that much power when the money saved on drivers could be spent elsewhere on the system improving it.
ecsrobin said:
I can see ticket offices trying to be closed again in 10years time when all the oldies that stamped their feet die off or stop using the trains. There really is no need for them with e-ticketing and the machines that are much quicker than joining a line to speak to a person.
And at some point T&C’s will need to be changed with the times so more strikes to come. I watched a video about some new underground trains that London are getting. Elsewhere in the world they are driverless, due to unions in the UK they have a driver, it’s just madness that they carry that much power when the money saved on drivers could be spent elsewhere on the system improving it.
It has to be the easiest job in the world to make all trains driverless.And at some point T&C’s will need to be changed with the times so more strikes to come. I watched a video about some new underground trains that London are getting. Elsewhere in the world they are driverless, due to unions in the UK they have a driver, it’s just madness that they carry that much power when the money saved on drivers could be spent elsewhere on the system improving it.
mickk said:
It has to be the easiest job in the world to make all trains driverless.
According to the video I watched Siemens say they can be converted to driverless. https://www.mobility.siemens.com/global/en/portfol...
mickk said:
ecsrobin said:
I can see ticket offices trying to be closed again in 10years time when all the oldies that stamped their feet die off or stop using the trains. There really is no need for them with e-ticketing and the machines that are much quicker than joining a line to speak to a person.
And at some point T&C’s will need to be changed with the times so more strikes to come. I watched a video about some new underground trains that London are getting. Elsewhere in the world they are driverless, due to unions in the UK they have a driver, it’s just madness that they carry that much power when the money saved on drivers could be spent elsewhere on the system improving it.
It has to be the easiest job in the world to make all trains driverless.And at some point T&C’s will need to be changed with the times so more strikes to come. I watched a video about some new underground trains that London are getting. Elsewhere in the world they are driverless, due to unions in the UK they have a driver, it’s just madness that they carry that much power when the money saved on drivers could be spent elsewhere on the system improving it.
Driverless trains will happen though, as a sideline for the companies that automate road transport.
mickk said:
ecsrobin said:
I can see ticket offices trying to be closed again in 10years time when all the oldies that stamped their feet die off or stop using the trains. There really is no need for them with e-ticketing and the machines that are much quicker than joining a line to speak to a person.
And at some point T&C’s will need to be changed with the times so more strikes to come. I watched a video about some new underground trains that London are getting. Elsewhere in the world they are driverless, due to unions in the UK they have a driver, it’s just madness that they carry that much power when the money saved on drivers could be spent elsewhere on the system improving it.
It has to be the easiest job in the world to make all trains driverless.And at some point T&C’s will need to be changed with the times so more strikes to come. I watched a video about some new underground trains that London are getting. Elsewhere in the world they are driverless, due to unions in the UK they have a driver, it’s just madness that they carry that much power when the money saved on drivers could be spent elsewhere on the system improving it.
Ashfordian said:
Except it has a cost that does not provide anywhere close to a return on investment to justify developing it.
Driverless trains will happen though, as a sideline for the companies that automate road transport.
The train design is already developed in use so I’m guessing it’s the signalling that requires investment? If so will that not just come with the next time the line is due an upgrade? Driverless trains will happen though, as a sideline for the companies that automate road transport.
ecsrobin said:
I can see ticket offices trying to be closed again in 10years time when all the oldies that stamped their feet die off or stop using the trains. There really is no need for them with e-ticketing and the machines that are much quicker than joining a line to speak to a person.
And at some point T&C’s will need to be changed with the times so more strikes to come. I watched a video about some new underground trains that London are getting. Elsewhere in the world they are driverless, due to unions in the UK they have a driver, it’s just madness that they carry that much power when the money saved on drivers could be spent elsewhere on the system improving it.
First point, you are confusing the people who work in ticket offices with the people who drive trains. They are in completely separate unions so legally cannot strike to protect each others T&C'sAnd at some point T&C’s will need to be changed with the times so more strikes to come. I watched a video about some new underground trains that London are getting. Elsewhere in the world they are driverless, due to unions in the UK they have a driver, it’s just madness that they carry that much power when the money saved on drivers could be spent elsewhere on the system improving it.
The ticket office closures are a failure of Government policy where they went with a one-size fits all approach. It is obvious 'outpost' ticket offices can be closed and become a multi-function station role, but ticket offices are still needed at the busier stations simply because the number of passengers means you have a small percentage who justify the need for this dedicated role full-time.
Ashfordian said:
First point, you are confusing the people who work in ticket offices with the people who drive trains. They are in completely separate unions so legally cannot strike to protect each others T&C's
The ticket office closures are a failure of Government policy where they went with a one-size fits all approach. It is obvious 'outpost' ticket offices can be closed and become a multi-function station role, but ticket offices are still needed at the busier stations simply because the number of passengers means you have a small percentage who justify the need for this dedicated role full-time.
Sorry where am I confusing RMT and ASLEF? The ticket office closures are a failure of Government policy where they went with a one-size fits all approach. It is obvious 'outpost' ticket offices can be closed and become a multi-function station role, but ticket offices are still needed at the busier stations simply because the number of passengers means you have a small percentage who justify the need for this dedicated role full-time.
ecsrobin said:
The train design is already developed in use so I’m guessing it’s the signalling that requires investment? If so will that not just come with the next time the line is due an upgrade?
We’ve done this before. There’s signalling approaching 150 years old still in use. Crossrail and Thameslink cores are basically driverless with the bloke at the front just operating the doors, but everywhere else they do the driving.legzr1 said:
Stedman said:
TOCs also happy to put deals together for Drivers but Govt kibosh them at every opportunity.
Compare and contrast England to Scotland. Scotrail with the backing of Scottish government agreed a deal with Aslef drivers in, literally, hours. Now look at the TOCs in England trying to negotiate with Aslef drivers in England.ecsrobin said:
Ashfordian said:
Except it has a cost that does not provide anywhere close to a return on investment to justify developing it.
Driverless trains will happen though, as a sideline for the companies that automate road transport.
The train design is already developed in use so I’m guessing it’s the signalling that requires investment? If so will that not just come with the next time the line is due an upgrade? Driverless trains will happen though, as a sideline for the companies that automate road transport.
In your example how does a driverless train identify an obstruction eg fallen tree, or network rail staff working near the line?
Ashfordian said:
The costs are huge though, and the time lines are very long which is why I see this only occurring countrywide as an offshoot of automating road transport.
In your example how does a driverless train identify an obstruction eg fallen tree, or network rail staff working near the line?
Sorry I could have probably worded it better it was more about the power of the rail unions potentially stopping progress. Rather than automated trains across the network I was thinking an underground system makes perfect sense and is repeated elsewhere with success and feels like the tube union is stopping that progress. In your example how does a driverless train identify an obstruction eg fallen tree, or network rail staff working near the line?
Sometimes change can be for the better and I think many see change as always bad.
k the government” I skim and probably miss those points. ecsrobin said:
Sorry I could have probably worded it better it was more about the power of the rail unions potentially stopping progress. Rather than automated trains across the network I was thinking an underground system makes perfect sense and is repeated elsewhere with success and feels like the tube union is stopping that progress.
Sometimes change can be for the better and I think many see change as always bad.
Unite don’t seem to be standing in the way of Glasgow Subway going to completely unattended operations, but that’s possibly because the “drivers” (self driving since the early 80s) also work in the ticket offices some of the time and they’ll still have roughly the same jobs at the same rate. In saying that, the upgrade seems to be moving at a glacial pace. It would be interesting to see how the RMT would react if a similar proposal, with the same safety enhancements, eg platform edge doors, was put forward for the Victoria line or Waterloo & City.Sometimes change can be for the better and I think many see change as always bad.
ecsrobin said:
I can see ticket offices trying to be closed again in 10years time when all the oldies that stamped their feet die off or stop using the trains. There really is no need for them with e-ticketing and the machines that are much quicker than joining a line to speak to a person.
Using a member of staff at the ticket office is about twice as fast as using the ticket machine. I watched this at our local station as part of my response to the ticket office closures. The ticket office staff can see you approaching and if you are a regular they can have your ticket lined up for you before you have even asked for it! Even if you arent a regular they are still faster than the machine as they dont need to read the screen as much, they know what buttons to press etc.The only reason a machine will be quicker is if twice as many people are queueing at the office.
The ticket machine cant clear up after the late night crowd at the station, cant reset the lift, cant empty the bins, cant grit the platform etc. They also cant sell some tickets, and often will refuse to sell a valid ticket for the next train as its too "early" to buy the ticket, even though there are no trains, it cant stand outside the station warning of disruption, talk to the drivers of replacement buses etc.
Indeed just yesterday I went to the ticket office with my daughter as she was due to go back to Bristol today, but due to the overtime ban no direct trains. GWR said she could travel yesterday, but they hadnt arranged for other carriers to do ticket acceptance. So she would need a new ticket for home to Paddington which GWR might refund. However went to local ticket office got an immediate refund for todays ticket and bought a new ticket to travel yesterday - which ironically was half the price. Machine couldnt do that!
Chrisgr31 said:
Using a member of staff at the ticket office is about twice as fast as using the ticket machine. I watched this at our local station as part of my response to the ticket office closures. The ticket office staff can see you approaching and if you are a regular they can have your ticket lined up for you before you have even asked for it! Even if you arent a regular they are still faster than the machine as they dont need to read the screen as much, they know what buttons to press etc.
I don’t agree with this. Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff