RMT union vote for a national rail strike

[Armchair_Expert]

The public sector workers such as police and NHS, both paid much less than rail workers, have also been working 24 hour shifts for years in very difficult circumstances, but they are not bleating, nor are they able to allowed to strike. The former pretty much have no union, the Federation have proved themselves to be utterly useless, so there is no voice, or avenue of complaint at all - only option is to suffer in silence.

[ChemicalChaos]

98elise said:

A rail ticket covering 10's of miles shouldn't be more expensive that a plane ticket to Europe.

This, most of all,

How the juddering fk is it possible to fly from Manchester to London via Europe for about 1/5 of the cost of a direct train?
Air travel is way more regulated and involves way more staff than rail!
It's completely ridiculous

[jet_noise]

ChemicalChaos said:

This, most of all,

How the juddering fk is it possible to fly from Manchester to London via Europe for about 1/5 of the cost of a direct train?
Air travel is way more regulated and involves way more staff than rail!
It's completely ridiculous

Infrastructure AIUI Rail has far more than air.

[Biggy Stardust]

jet_noise said:

Infrastructure AIUI Rail has far more than air.

I suspect a lump of railway ballast has less maintenance than a control tower. Even a signal box has less.

[valiant]

Biggy Stardust said:

I suspect a lump of railway ballast has less maintenance than a control tower. Even a signal box has less.

Really? Have you seen inside a ROC? It’s a bit more than a few levers nowadays.

[Biggy Stardust]

valiant said:

Biggy Stardust said:

I suspect a lump of railway ballast has less maintenance than a control tower. Even a signal box has less.

Really? Have you seen inside a ROC? It’s a bit more than a few levers nowadays.

Yes I have. I've also been inside a control tower.

[valiant]

Biggy Stardust said:

valiant said:

Biggy Stardust said:

I suspect a lump of railway ballast has less maintenance than a control tower. Even a signal box has less.

Really? Have you seen inside a ROC? It’s a bit more than a few levers nowadays.

Yes I have. I've also been inside a control tower.

Then you’ll know that maintaining and operating a modern railway is a bit more than a lump of ballast.

[Ouroboros]

When I worked with unionised rail people, one member was an alcoholic, left the brake off the train, nearly killed people, yet the union fought to blame management and keep him in a job..

It was the turning point for me in seeing just how unions really work.

[ZedLeg]

Ouroboros said:

When I worked with unionised rail people, one member was an alcoholic, left the brake off the train, nearly killed people, yet the union fought to blame management and keep him in a job..

It was the turning point for me in seeing just how unions really work.

I'd be curious to find out more about that, was the argument that management should've spotted the drinking problem through testing and the driver agreed to an addiction treatment plan and monitoring?

[valiant]

Ouroboros said:

When I worked with unionised rail people, one member was an alcoholic, left the brake off the train, nearly killed people, yet the union fought to blame management and keep him in a job..

It was the turning point for me in seeing just how unions really work.

Was there an RAIB report into this?

If people were nearly killed then I suspect so so when and where please.

[CarCrazyDad]

valiant said:

Then you’ll know that maintaining and operating a modern railway is a bit more than a lump of ballast.

I can't think of any level of train engineering that would be anywhere near the engineering requirement of a modern jet liner.

The fact you can go to Europe on a plane for significantly less than even a regional journey on train is preposterous.

[irc]

valiant said:

Then you’ll know that maintaining and operating a modern railway is a bit more than a lump of ballast.

Which begs the question why have railways when they are so expensive to operate?

Replace long distance rail with flights.

Replace medium distance up to 200 miles perhaps with buses.

We already have the infrastructure for buses. Throw a bit of the £5Bn rail subsidy towards buses. I would suggest mandating minimum legroom for example in new buses. Perhaps on long routes have bendy buses. Have seating 3 per row rather than 4 for comfortable seats when combined with better legroom.

Some of the defucnt urban railbeds could be converted to busways to allow buses to skip past city city traffic jams.

Beeching didn't go far enough. I would suggest a better bus service then scrap many train lines.

Converting railbeds to dedicated bus routes would work even in central LOndon.

"At Waterloo 50,000 crushed passengers alight in the morning peak hour. They could all find seats in 1,000 50-seat motor coaches. Those coaches would occupy no more than one lane of a motor road. At Waterloo there is room for 3 or 4 lanes in each direction. The waste is lamentable."

http://www.transport-watch.co.uk/facts-sheet-1-%E2...

Railways? A 19th century technology which has had it's day.

[legzr1]

valiant said:

Then you’ll know that maintaining and operating a modern railway is a bit more than a lump of ballast.

Of all the uneducated and knee-jerk responses in this thread, the lump of ballast comment is the winner.

I have no experience of the air industry so maybe someone could explain how the tens of thousands of signals, crossings, points, junctions, track circuits, bridges and tunnels are maintained at 30,000ft?

Further north, I see Scotrail are seriously struggling to recruit and retain qualified staff amd have introduced an emergency timetable which slashes lots of services. If it’s such an excellent career, paying three times the going rate of an experienced nurse, I expect some of the vocal majority in this thread would be interested?

[Previous]

irc said:

"At Waterloo 50,000 crushed passengers alight in the morning peak hour. They could all find seats in 1,000 50-seat motor coaches. Those coaches would occupy no more than one lane of a motor road. At Waterloo there is room for 3 or 4 lanes in each direction.....

17 busses unloading every minute.

Exaggerating for effect?

I agree with the point about price though.

[ZedLeg]

irc said:

Replace long distance rail with flights.

That's an absurd suggestion tbh.

Replacing rail with planes would be a disaster for carbon emissions

Most major cities have at least one big central train station, compared to having to travel to some suburban satellite town for the domestic airport.

around 70 million tonnes of freight is moved by train, would this be moved to trucks? Combined with the increased bus traffic I could see traffic (and emissions again) increasing.

[legzr1]

CarCrazyDad said:

I can't think of any level of train engineering that would be anywhere near the engineering requirement of a modern jet liner.

.

Think bigger.

[legzr1]

ZedLeg said:

That's an absurd suggestion tbh.

.

The lump of ballast comment has a contender.

[irc]

legzr1 said:

Of all the uneducated and knee-jerk responses in this thread, the lump of ballast comment is the winner.

I have no experience of the air industry so maybe someone could explain how the tens of thousands of signals, crossings, points, junctions, track circuits, bridges and tunnels are maintained at 30,000ft?

Further north, I see Scotrail are seriously struggling to recruit and retain qualified staff amd have introduced an emergency timetable which slashes lots of services. If it’s such an excellent career, paying three times the going rate of an experienced nurse, I expect some of the vocal majority in this thread would be interested?

You mean like when Virgin asked for applicants to become train drivers and got 200 applicants for every job?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-e...

Insiders on the rail forums confirm there is huge demand for train driver jobs.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/volume-of-app...

[Brave Fart]

As regards the RMT, well, unions gonna union, as it were. I think we're going to see a lot more of this in the months to come. Unions will demand a thumping pay rise to protect their members' pay in real terms, and employers will inevitably resist.

You might think the RMT greedy, or that they're being unrealistic, but from their point of view they are looking out for their members. I imagine that they'll settle for much less than their initial demands. That's how these things go.

A 'winter of discontent' perhaps?

[legzr1]

irc said:

You mean like when Virgin asked for applicants to become train drivers and got 200 applicants for every job?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-e...

Insiders on the rail forums confirm there is huge demand for train driver jobs.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/volume-of-app...

First link from 6 years ago, second from 3 years ago.

This is your answer to a current issue with recruitment?

Almost as strange as your ultimate ‘bus replacement service’