C.E.O.'s Salaries
Discussion
crankedup5 said:
Equality Trust offer some very interesting reports and facts on many aspects including CEO pay packages. Seven out of ten U.K. persons want Government to crack down on soaring CEO pay amongst many other matters. Worth a read through.
equalitytrust.org.uk
This all seems a bit socialist doesn't it? A bit politics of envy...equalitytrust.org.uk
I confused myself and posted this in the 'Cost of Living Squeeze' thread when I thought I was in this one:
I think this thread is getting round the key point [ironic, since I was in the wrong one!] - not 'should CEOs be paid more than their line workers and cleaners?' but 'is it fair and sustainable that they get paid so much more than their line workers and cleaners?'. The top/bottom pay ratio in the FTSE 100 is dramatically larger than equivalents in Europe. But I can't say I'm particularly struck by British business being better-managed, more productive and so on than the equivalents in our peer nations.
This report has all the lovely numbers - https://trustforlondon.fra1.cdn.digitaloceanspaces...
It's got nothing to do with envy - that implies that merely questioning the level of inequality means that those doing so want to have the same wealth as a FTSE 100 CEO rather than being concerned with the negative effects of the gap between top and bottom.
I think this thread is getting round the key point [ironic, since I was in the wrong one!] - not 'should CEOs be paid more than their line workers and cleaners?' but 'is it fair and sustainable that they get paid so much more than their line workers and cleaners?'. The top/bottom pay ratio in the FTSE 100 is dramatically larger than equivalents in Europe. But I can't say I'm particularly struck by British business being better-managed, more productive and so on than the equivalents in our peer nations.
This report has all the lovely numbers - https://trustforlondon.fra1.cdn.digitaloceanspaces...
Bill said:
This all seems a bit socialist doesn't it? A bit politics of envy...
Literal material and financial equality is impossible, undesirable and ends up being its own form of inequality/injustice, but too much inequality is an economic hindrance, is socially corrosive and is unsustainable in the long term.It's got nothing to do with envy - that implies that merely questioning the level of inequality means that those doing so want to have the same wealth as a FTSE 100 CEO rather than being concerned with the negative effects of the gap between top and bottom.
valiant said:
Yeah, but what about the nurses?
Surely every wage nowadays is compared to the starting salary of a nurse or is that just the RMT thread?
I get what your saying but just anchor on the gist of your reply. I work in the NHS and see the CEO and board of directors of our trust at work and got to say, I couldn't do it. The mental gymnastics, politics, next level bullsSurely every wage nowadays is compared to the starting salary of a nurse or is that just the RMT thread?
t bingo and general psyops at work must be tiresome to maintain. It's a skillset not to be taken lightly.I'd get sacked after day 2, at best.
A500leroy said:
If you took it away from money and paid in bread. Lets say the ceo gets 200 loaves a year and the average worker gets 10.
Wouldnt it be a nicer world if the ceo had 150 loaves (he'd still have plenty to eat) and the rest was dived between the workers who would have a little more to eat than they would have previously done.
What do you propose doing with the F1 driver who gets 1,000 loaves?Wouldnt it be a nicer world if the ceo had 150 loaves (he'd still have plenty to eat) and the rest was dived between the workers who would have a little more to eat than they would have previously done.
The CEO role is a tremendous privilege and hugely satisfying aswell as financially rewarding. However, it is far from a piece of cake, and quite a shock to the system the first time you do it.
Here’s a few things no one tells you before you become a CEO:
- Firms rarely hire a new CEO when things are going well. The day you land you are likely to be standing on a ship that is sinking faster than you thought, with everyone looking at you to stop it going under.
- Your senior team are smart, capable, driven people who have battled to the point of being Directors. Not all of them are thrilled you’ve arrived and not all are going to be helpful. Your first job is going to be fire the ones that aren’t, and find the people who will be.
- All the most difficult issues in the firm will land on your desk. That’s because anything remotely solvable would have been handled lower down the organisation, so all you get are the worst problems to solve. There is no easy work on your To Do list.
- You will have to cover a wide range of specialities and be expected to be good at all of them. In one morning you may have meetings with Finance, Tech, Marketing, HR and Operations, and they expect you to be up to date and able to add value on all of them.
- You will have an almost infinite amount of work to do, since literally every issue in the company is your responsibility. Since you cannot do it all you constantly have to choose which fires can be left burning whilst you sort out the biggest ones. This does not make you popular.
- You are not just always under pressure (since the whole firm depends on your decisions) but also always under scrutiny: the whole firm is watching you. So you cannot show stress, doubts, worries, nothing. You are permanently on show. If a CEO looks like it’s easy doing this they are just doing a good job of hiding the stress.
- If you’re blessed with a good Board it can be a help. A lot of them simply add another burden to the CEO, and another group of people to keep happy.
- Finally, you will be completely, utterly, on your own. You cannot fully confide in anyone, so every major threat, grim decision, and choice of direction is ultimately down to you and you alone.
To be clear, I’m not moaning here, I personally think it’s the best job in the world. It brings more challenge, variety, freedom, opportunity, learning, self-expression and reward than any other role I know of (I won’t comment on whether it’s overpaid, as rather think that depends on the situation). Is it easy though? Absolutely not.
Here’s a few things no one tells you before you become a CEO:
- Firms rarely hire a new CEO when things are going well. The day you land you are likely to be standing on a ship that is sinking faster than you thought, with everyone looking at you to stop it going under.
- Your senior team are smart, capable, driven people who have battled to the point of being Directors. Not all of them are thrilled you’ve arrived and not all are going to be helpful. Your first job is going to be fire the ones that aren’t, and find the people who will be.
- All the most difficult issues in the firm will land on your desk. That’s because anything remotely solvable would have been handled lower down the organisation, so all you get are the worst problems to solve. There is no easy work on your To Do list.
- You will have to cover a wide range of specialities and be expected to be good at all of them. In one morning you may have meetings with Finance, Tech, Marketing, HR and Operations, and they expect you to be up to date and able to add value on all of them.
- You will have an almost infinite amount of work to do, since literally every issue in the company is your responsibility. Since you cannot do it all you constantly have to choose which fires can be left burning whilst you sort out the biggest ones. This does not make you popular.
- You are not just always under pressure (since the whole firm depends on your decisions) but also always under scrutiny: the whole firm is watching you. So you cannot show stress, doubts, worries, nothing. You are permanently on show. If a CEO looks like it’s easy doing this they are just doing a good job of hiding the stress.
- If you’re blessed with a good Board it can be a help. A lot of them simply add another burden to the CEO, and another group of people to keep happy.
- Finally, you will be completely, utterly, on your own. You cannot fully confide in anyone, so every major threat, grim decision, and choice of direction is ultimately down to you and you alone.
To be clear, I’m not moaning here, I personally think it’s the best job in the world. It brings more challenge, variety, freedom, opportunity, learning, self-expression and reward than any other role I know of (I won’t comment on whether it’s overpaid, as rather think that depends on the situation). Is it easy though? Absolutely not.
Edited by 67Dino on Thursday 26th May 20:03
crankedup5 said:
CEO a pay ratios against the worker average pay has gone from x 20 in the 1960s to x280 now.
That represents quite some climb in the differential gap.
Unfortunately the worse of the excesses attract the National media attention, and rightly so. Take the case of the former CEO persimmon homes as an example.
Have you got an attribution for that statistic?That represents quite some climb in the differential gap.
Unfortunately the worse of the excesses attract the National media attention, and rightly so. Take the case of the former CEO persimmon homes as an example.
Doesn’t sound right to me…
(Edited for auto-correct)
Edited by ettore on Thursday 26th May 20:10
2xChevrons said:
Literal material and financial equality is impossible, undesirable and ends up being its own form of inequality/injustice, but too much inequality is an economic hindrance, is socially corrosive and is unsustainable in the long term.
It's got nothing to do with envy - that implies that merely questioning the level of inequality means that those doing so want to have the same wealth as a FTSE 100 CEO rather than being concerned with the negative effects of the gap between top and bottom.
How much is too much? And why is no one bothered about the cleaners at Man U?It's got nothing to do with envy - that implies that merely questioning the level of inequality means that those doing so want to have the same wealth as a FTSE 100 CEO rather than being concerned with the negative effects of the gap between top and bottom.
dave_s13 said:
valiant said:
Yeah, but what about the nurses?
Surely every wage nowadays is compared to the starting salary of a nurse or is that just the RMT thread?
I get what your saying but just anchor on the gist of your reply. I work in the NHS and see the CEO and board of directors of our trust at work and got to say, I couldn't do it. The mental gymnastics, politics, next level bullsSurely every wage nowadays is compared to the starting salary of a nurse or is that just the RMT thread?
t bingo and general psyops at work must be tiresome to maintain. It's a skillset not to be taken lightly.I'd get sacked after day 2, at best.
My dig was that there’s a slight hypocrisy among some PHers that it’s perfectly fine to comment and critique one profession yet take an almost opposite view on this thread where CEOs and the like are lauded.
A bit cheeky on my behalf so apologies for the cross post derailing.
67Dino said:
The CEO role is a tremendous privilege and hugely satisfying aswell as financially rewarding. However, it is far from a piece of cake, and quite a shock to the system the first time you do it.
Here’s a few things no one tells you before you become a CEO:
- Firms rarely hire a new CEO when things are going well. The day you land you are likely to be standing on a ship that is sinking faster than you thought, with everyone looking at you to stop it going under.
- Your senior team are smart, capable, driven people who have battled to the point of being Directors. Not all of them are thrilled you’ve arrived and not all are going to be helpful. Your first job is going to be fire the ones that aren’t, and find the people who will be.
- All the most difficult issues in the firm will land on your desk. That’s because anything remotely solvable would have been handled lower down the organisation, so all you get are the worst problems to solve. There is no easy work on your To Do list.
- You will have to cover a wide range of specialities and be expected to be good at all of them. In one morning you may have meetings with Finance, Tech, Marketing, HR and Operations, and they expect you to be up to date and able to add value on all of them.
- You will have an almost infinite amount of work to do, since literally every issue in the company is your responsibility. Since you cannot do it all you constantly have to choose which fires can be left burning whilst you sort out the biggest ones. This does not make you popular.
- You are not just always under pressure (since the whole firm depends on your decisions) but also always under scrutiny: the whole firm is watching you. So you cannot show stress, doubts, worries, nothing. You are permanently on show. If a CEO looks like it’s easy doing this they are just doing a good job of hiding the stress.
- If you’re blessed with a good Board it can be a help. A lot of them simply add another burden to the CEO, and another group of people to keep happy.
- Finally, you will be completely, utterly, on your own. You cannot fully confide in anyone, so every major threat, grim decision, and choice of direction is ultimately down to you and you alone.
To be clear, I’m not moaning here, I personally think it’s the best job in the world. It brings more challenge, variety, freedom, opportunity, learning, self-expression and reward than any other role I know of (I won’t comment on whether it’s overpaid, as rather think that depends on the situation). Is it easy though? Absolutely not.
Good post. Sums it up nicely.Here’s a few things no one tells you before you become a CEO:
- Firms rarely hire a new CEO when things are going well. The day you land you are likely to be standing on a ship that is sinking faster than you thought, with everyone looking at you to stop it going under.
- Your senior team are smart, capable, driven people who have battled to the point of being Directors. Not all of them are thrilled you’ve arrived and not all are going to be helpful. Your first job is going to be fire the ones that aren’t, and find the people who will be.
- All the most difficult issues in the firm will land on your desk. That’s because anything remotely solvable would have been handled lower down the organisation, so all you get are the worst problems to solve. There is no easy work on your To Do list.
- You will have to cover a wide range of specialities and be expected to be good at all of them. In one morning you may have meetings with Finance, Tech, Marketing, HR and Operations, and they expect you to be up to date and able to add value on all of them.
- You will have an almost infinite amount of work to do, since literally every issue in the company is your responsibility. Since you cannot do it all you constantly have to choose which fires can be left burning whilst you sort out the biggest ones. This does not make you popular.
- You are not just always under pressure (since the whole firm depends on your decisions) but also always under scrutiny: the whole firm is watching you. So you cannot show stress, doubts, worries, nothing. You are permanently on show. If a CEO looks like it’s easy doing this they are just doing a good job of hiding the stress.
- If you’re blessed with a good Board it can be a help. A lot of them simply add another burden to the CEO, and another group of people to keep happy.
- Finally, you will be completely, utterly, on your own. You cannot fully confide in anyone, so every major threat, grim decision, and choice of direction is ultimately down to you and you alone.
To be clear, I’m not moaning here, I personally think it’s the best job in the world. It brings more challenge, variety, freedom, opportunity, learning, self-expression and reward than any other role I know of (I won’t comment on whether it’s overpaid, as rather think that depends on the situation). Is it easy though? Absolutely not.
Edited by 67Dino on Thursday 26th May 20:03
67Dino said:
The CEO role is a tremendous privilege and hugely satisfying aswell as financially rewarding. However, it is far from a piece of cake, and quite a shock to the system the first time you do it.
Here’s a few things no one tells you before you become a CEO:
- Firms rarely hire a new CEO when things are going well. The day you land you are likely to be standing on a ship that is sinking faster than you thought, with everyone looking at you to stop it going under.
- Your senior team are smart, capable, driven people who have battled to the point of being Directors. Not all of them are thrilled you’ve arrived and not all are going to be helpful. Your first job is going to be fire the ones that aren’t, and find the people who will be.
- All the most difficult issues in the firm will land on your desk. That’s because anything remotely solvable would have been handled lower down the organisation, so all you get are the worst problems to solve. There is no easy work on your To Do list.
- You will have to cover a wide range of specialities and be expected to be good at all of them. In one morning you may have meetings with Finance, Tech, Marketing, HR and Operations, and they expect you to be up to date and able to add value on all of them.
- You will have an almost infinite amount of work to do, since literally every issue in the company is your responsibility. Since you cannot do it all you constantly have to choose which fires can be left burning whilst you sort out the biggest ones. This does not make you popular.
- You are not just always under pressure (since the whole firm depends on your decisions) but also always under scrutiny: the whole firm is watching you. So you cannot show stress, doubts, worries, nothing. You are permanently on show. If a CEO looks like it’s easy doing this they are just doing a good job of hiding the stress.
- If you’re blessed with a good Board it can be a help. A lot of them simply add another burden to the CEO, and another group of people to keep happy.
- Finally, you will be completely, utterly, on your own. You cannot fully confide in anyone, so every major threat, grim decision, and choice of direction is ultimately down to you and you alone.
To be clear, I’m not moaning here, I personally think it’s the best job in the world. It brings more challenge, variety, freedom, opportunity, learning, self-expression and reward than any other role I know of (I won’t comment on whether it’s overpaid, as rather think that depends on the situation). Is it easy though? Absolutely not.
Great post.Here’s a few things no one tells you before you become a CEO:
- Firms rarely hire a new CEO when things are going well. The day you land you are likely to be standing on a ship that is sinking faster than you thought, with everyone looking at you to stop it going under.
- Your senior team are smart, capable, driven people who have battled to the point of being Directors. Not all of them are thrilled you’ve arrived and not all are going to be helpful. Your first job is going to be fire the ones that aren’t, and find the people who will be.
- All the most difficult issues in the firm will land on your desk. That’s because anything remotely solvable would have been handled lower down the organisation, so all you get are the worst problems to solve. There is no easy work on your To Do list.
- You will have to cover a wide range of specialities and be expected to be good at all of them. In one morning you may have meetings with Finance, Tech, Marketing, HR and Operations, and they expect you to be up to date and able to add value on all of them.
- You will have an almost infinite amount of work to do, since literally every issue in the company is your responsibility. Since you cannot do it all you constantly have to choose which fires can be left burning whilst you sort out the biggest ones. This does not make you popular.
- You are not just always under pressure (since the whole firm depends on your decisions) but also always under scrutiny: the whole firm is watching you. So you cannot show stress, doubts, worries, nothing. You are permanently on show. If a CEO looks like it’s easy doing this they are just doing a good job of hiding the stress.
- If you’re blessed with a good Board it can be a help. A lot of them simply add another burden to the CEO, and another group of people to keep happy.
- Finally, you will be completely, utterly, on your own. You cannot fully confide in anyone, so every major threat, grim decision, and choice of direction is ultimately down to you and you alone.
To be clear, I’m not moaning here, I personally think it’s the best job in the world. It brings more challenge, variety, freedom, opportunity, learning, self-expression and reward than any other role I know of (I won’t comment on whether it’s overpaid, as rather think that depends on the situation). Is it easy though? Absolutely not.
Edited by 67Dino on Thursday 26th May 20:03
I am constantly surprised to see how many people think the role consists of chauffeur-driven cars, big leather chairs, first class travel, pots of money, everything on expenses and little else.
CEOs get paid a lot because it’s a bloody hard job. You can earn great money at a lower level for a lot less grief.
A500leroy said:
Yes genuine question. With me being at the bottom of the ladder, just wondered how much harder the ceo is grafting to be worth the massive salary as i have no idea what he does!
It's not graft. Most well paid jobs are not physically hard. It's the responsibility and decision making that goes into running a large organisations.In a similar vein I spent a long time working in IT. Basically it's pressing buttons on a keyboard. Why am I paid many multiples of a data entry person earns? It's the same computer and the same effort.
The answer is skills, experience and responsibility.
faa77 said:
Muzzer79 said:
faa77 said:
Never understood why these guys take such high salaries. 45% tax straight away.
Again, not sure if serious.Unless you're suggesting they should take share options or similar benefits instead of salary?
In most high paid jobs salary is just to provide comfortable living. You receive the remaining "real money" via more tax efficient means.
Share options can result in zero money being received. It's a gamble on the share price going up, and then what you do make is taxable. At my last employer almost everyone got options. I still have loads that are completely worthless!
67Dino said:
- Finally, you will be completely, utterly, on your own. You cannot fully confide in anyone, so every major threat, grim decision, and choice of direction is ultimately down to you and you alone.
This was exactly the point I was going to highlight. It can be a lonely role: you have no peers (the executive team report to you) and you in turn report to the Board (usually through the Chairman).Obviously a good executive team helps, and a supportive Chair even more, but ultimately the buck stops with the CEO.
98elise said:
faa77 said:
Muzzer79 said:
faa77 said:
Never understood why these guys take such high salaries. 45% tax straight away.
Again, not sure if serious.Unless you're suggesting they should take share options or similar benefits instead of salary?
In most high paid jobs salary is just to provide comfortable living. You receive the remaining "real money" via more tax efficient means.
Share options can result in zero money being received. It's a gamble on the share price going up, and then what you do make is taxable. At my last employer almost everyone got options. I still have loads that are completely worthless!
ettore said:
crankedup5 said:
CEO a pay ratios against the worker average pay has gone from x 20 in the 1960s to x280 now.
That represents quite some climb in the differential gap.
Unfortunately the worse of the excesses attract the National media attention, and rightly so. Take the case of the former CEO persimmon homes as an example.
Have you got an attribution for that statistic?That represents quite some climb in the differential gap.
Unfortunately the worse of the excesses attract the National media attention, and rightly so. Take the case of the former CEO persimmon homes as an example.
Doesn’t sound right to me…
(Edited for auto-correct)
Edited by ettore on Thursday 26th May 20:10
Bill said:
crankedup5 said:
Equality Trust offer some very interesting reports and facts on many aspects including CEO pay packages. Seven out of ten U.K. persons want Government to crack down on soaring CEO pay amongst many other matters. Worth a read through.
equalitytrust.org.uk
This all seems a bit socialist doesn't it? A bit politics of envy...equalitytrust.org.uk
98elise said:
faa77 said:
Muzzer79 said:
faa77 said:
Never understood why these guys take such high salaries. 45% tax straight away.
Again, not sure if serious.Unless you're suggesting they should take share options or similar benefits instead of salary?
In most high paid jobs salary is just to provide comfortable living. You receive the remaining "real money" via more tax efficient means.
Share options can result in zero money being received. It's a gamble on the share price going up, and then what you do make is taxable. At my last employer almost everyone got options. I still have loads that are completely worthless!
You have all the control, so if the share price doesn’t go up, you’re not doing your job.
A lot of people are putting CEOs on a pedestal due to added pressure and responsibility. I am sure that pressure is a hell of a lot less than average Joe deals with working long hours for his average salary. He loses his home if he loses his job. No savings due to the cost of living crisis. Going to work exhausted because the baby wakes up screaming every half hour. Average Joe can't afford to get a nanny.
Or a surgeon literally holding his patients heart in his hands. A social worker who didn't spot the signs of child abuse. A military officer sending his lads out and wondering if they will all make it back.
These are jobs with actual pressure. A CEO cocks up and gets a massive pay off. I'd say CEOs have less pressure than 95% of the workforce.
I 100% support the capitalist system, but regulation is important. Unregulated capitalism would make slaves of us all.
Or a surgeon literally holding his patients heart in his hands. A social worker who didn't spot the signs of child abuse. A military officer sending his lads out and wondering if they will all make it back.
These are jobs with actual pressure. A CEO cocks up and gets a massive pay off. I'd say CEOs have less pressure than 95% of the workforce.
Bill said:
crankedup5 said:
Equality Trust offer some very interesting reports and facts on many aspects including CEO pay packages. Seven out of ten U.K. persons want Government to crack down on soaring CEO pay amongst many other matters. Worth a read through.
equalitytrust.org.uk
This all seems a bit socialist doesn't it? A bit politics of envy...equalitytrust.org.uk
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