If Britain rejoined the EU tomorrow…

[anonymous-user]

Blue62 said:

Bandit said:

I’m the one not biting Blue. As if you remainers are actually interested in Brexit benefits!

I didn't aim the comment at you, or accuse you of 'biting?' In any event, perhaps you could explain the situation regarding QE across the Eurozone and make a comparison with the UK, since you decided to make a specific point about Eurozone QE to drive down debt. I'm certainly interested in Brexit benefits, I believe we are better 'in' but leaving presented opportunities which have not been grasped in my view, but perhaps you could point out what we have actually gained. I refer you to Rees-Mogg and the Dartford Tunnel.

Sure. The EU have printed lots of money (like U.K.) and now inflation is biting. The U.K. can raise interest rates to combat said inflation. The EU has a choice to either raise interest rates, which will bankrupt southern nations or keep them low / negative and the Germans can watch the value of their money disappear. I’d say the U.K. are in a better position than the EU. You?

[Blue62]

Bandit said:

Sure. The EU have printed lots of money (like U.K.) and now inflation is biting. The U.K. can raise interest rates to combat said inflation. The EU has a choice to either raise interest rates, which will bankrupt southern nations or keep them low / negative and the Germans can watch the value of their money disappear. I’d say the U.K. are in a better position than the EU. You?

It’s a little more nuanced than that, if you’d been paying attention there are various instruments at their disposal, but why focus on them when things are apparently so rosy here. Care to offer some examples?

[Kermit power]

Bandit said:

Blue62 said:

Bandit said:

I’m the one not biting Blue. As if you remainers are actually interested in Brexit benefits!

I didn't aim the comment at you, or accuse you of 'biting?' In any event, perhaps you could explain the situation regarding QE across the Eurozone and make a comparison with the UK, since you decided to make a specific point about Eurozone QE to drive down debt. I'm certainly interested in Brexit benefits, I believe we are better 'in' but leaving presented opportunities which have not been grasped in my view, but perhaps you could point out what we have actually gained. I refer you to Rees-Mogg and the Dartford Tunnel.

Sure. The EU have printed lots of money (like U.K.) and now inflation is biting. The U.K. can raise interest rates to combat said inflation. The EU has a choice to either raise interest rates, which will bankrupt southern nations or keep them low / negative and the Germans can watch the value of their money disappear. I’d say the U.K. are in a better position than the EU. You?

Umm... you do realise that prior to Brexit we were both in the EU and had control over our own interest rates, don't you?

[Kermit power]

Bandit said:

Kermit power said:

Just because I don't believe we will ever generate sufficient benefits to make Brexit worthwhile, that doesn't mean I'm not desperately keen to be appraised of any tangible benefits that lessen the blow of leaving.

So “desperately keen” that you can’t be bothered to read the thread where Brexit benefits are discussed at great length?

You lot really are amusing!

I've spent hours reading those threads. If there are any real benefits in there, they're so drowned out by the arguing and the theoretical future posturing that they're near enough impossible to find.

I'm saying that after several hours reading that I don't believe they are there. You're the one insisting the opposite, so you should be able to easily find them for me.

Unless you're admitting they're not actually there after all?

[anonymous-user]

Kermit power said:

Bandit said:

Blue62 said:

Bandit said:

I’m the one not biting Blue. As if you remainers are actually interested in Brexit benefits!

I didn't aim the comment at you, or accuse you of 'biting?' In any event, perhaps you could explain the situation regarding QE across the Eurozone and make a comparison with the UK, since you decided to make a specific point about Eurozone QE to drive down debt. I'm certainly interested in Brexit benefits, I believe we are better 'in' but leaving presented opportunities which have not been grasped in my view, but perhaps you could point out what we have actually gained. I refer you to Rees-Mogg and the Dartford Tunnel.

Sure. The EU have printed lots of money (like U.K.) and now inflation is biting. The U.K. can raise interest rates to combat said inflation. The EU has a choice to either raise interest rates, which will bankrupt southern nations or keep them low / negative and the Germans can watch the value of their money disappear. I’d say the U.K. are in a better position than the EU. You?

Umm... you do realise that prior to Brexit we were both in the EU and had control over our own interest rates, don't you?

Umm… you do realise the difference between the UKs position and the EU’s (Euro members) don’t you? Damned if they do, damned if they don’t. What a mess.

[anonymous-user]

Blue62 said:

It’s a little more nuanced than that, if you’d been paying attention there are various instruments at their disposal, but why focus on them when things are apparently so rosy here. Care to offer some examples?

What instruments would those be then? (Legal ones that will get past the German sniff test).

[anonymous-user]

Kermit power said:

I've spent hours reading those threads. If there are any real benefits in there, they're so drowned out by the arguing and the theoretical future posturing that they're near enough impossible to find.

I'm saying that after several hours reading that I don't believe they are there. You're the one insisting the opposite, so you should be able to easily find them for me.

Unless you're admitting they're not actually there after all?

I’m calling BS. You haven’t read the thread.

[a_dreamer]

Bandit said:

I’m calling BS. You haven’t read the thread.

It would take you considerably less time to find the benefits (if they existed) and post them here, than argue with the numerous people you are.

You'd be able to prove your point and educate others (if they existed). The thing is, you seem really passionate about it too, so it makes it weirder you wouldn't want to be able to demonstrate that you are correct.

[Kermit power]

Bandit said:

Kermit power said:

I've spent hours reading those threads. If there are any real benefits in there, they're so drowned out by the arguing and the theoretical future posturing that they're near enough impossible to find.

I'm saying that after several hours reading that I don't believe they are there. You're the one insisting the opposite, so you should be able to easily find them for me.

Unless you're admitting they're not actually there after all?

I’m calling BS. You haven’t read the thread.

You're welcome to call whatever you want, however given that I was posting in it on Jan 26th (to give just one example from before we started this discussion) what do you think is most probable? That I somehow managed to interact completely randomly with other people in a thread I haven't read, or that I have read it as I said.

Anyway, feel free to come up with those tangible benefits whenever you're ready.

[Ivan stewart]

Kermit power said:

You're welcome to call whatever you want, however given that I was posting in it on Jan 26th (to give just one example from before we started this discussion) what do you think is most probable? That I somehow managed to interact completely randomly with other people in a thread I haven't read, or that I have read it as I said.

Anyway, feel free to come up with those tangible benefits whenever you're ready.

Apart from regaining our sovereignty, knowing that various politicians gravy trains have hit the buffers,
And most importantly it has upset Tony Blair and other total shysters , which on its own makes Brexit awesome ..

[Kermit power]

Ivan stewart said:

Kermit power said:

You're welcome to call whatever you want, however given that I was posting in it on Jan 26th (to give just one example from before we started this discussion) what do you think is most probable? That I somehow managed to interact completely randomly with other people in a thread I haven't read, or that I have read it as I said.

Anyway, feel free to come up with those tangible benefits whenever you're ready.

Apart from regaining our sovereignty, knowing that various politicians gravy trains have hit the buffers,
And most importantly it has upset Tony Blair and other total shysters , which on its own makes Brexit awesome ..

So no actual tangible benefits then?

Nothing where you can identify specific economic growth, job creation, a freedom you personally have now that you didn't have before we left?

Something that says "my company has increased exports by X% because they can now do Y that they couldn't do previously", or "our summer holiday was A% cheaper this year because of Brexit change B"?

[maz8062]

As far as I can see some tangible benefits of Brexit is full employment and increased salaries in certain industries. I didn’t vote for Brexit but have benefited in this way as has the price of my property increased due the spike in demand.

For some folk, a more controlled job market without the competition of cheap labour from Europe has been a godsend.

But all is not as it seems. Full employment has empowered workers, with strikes breaking out left right and centre. Staff shortages are contributing to flight cancellations and all manner of uncomfortable experiences for consumers. These will all get resolved in the end - higher wages and higher costs. Simple. For example, a round trip to Italy for the school summer holidays - mum plus 2 kids aged 5 & 9. Ryannnair £1100, thanks. That’s right £1100 for a 2.5 hour flight.

Oh, and £2.11 for a litre of super unleaded fuel. The UK is a relatively small economy compared to the trading blocks around the world. We don’t have any leverage, so when our GOVT asks for something, the companies don’t have to oblige because the demand in most cases is in elastic.

Inflation, staff shortages, strikes, discontent. When have we been in this position in our recent history?

For example, what happened to the relaxation of the competition laws for the fuel retailers when it was relaxed due to fake shortages? This would never have happened when we were in the EU, but it is obvious now that the consumer is not benefiting from it. Will it ever change back? Unlikely, because the GOVT doesn’t have any real power.

Now, some will say it’s worse in Europe - they’ll cherry pick the sectors and the metrics, but the difference is that we have to solve all of our problems by ourselves - they can pull together as a block and resolve issues to a much better extent than we can.

Brexit will be a disaster for this country for sure. Much worse than predicted IMO. Will we ever re-join? No way Jose, but I can see a closer working relationship with the EU once this bunch of alt right fascists move on and make way for more centrist leaning policies. Until then best to make hay while the sun is shining.

[Kermit power]

maz8062 said:

As far as I can see some tangible benefits of Brexit is full employment and increased salaries in certain industries. I didn’t vote for Brexit but have benefited in this way as has the price of my property increased due the spike in demand.

For some folk, a more controlled job market without the competition of cheap labour from Europe has been a godsend.

But all is not as it seems. Full employment has empowered workers, with strikes breaking out left right and centre. Staff shortages are contributing to flight cancellations and all manner of uncomfortable experiences for consumers. These will all get resolved in the end - higher wages and higher costs. Simple. For example, a round trip to Italy for the school summer holidays - mum plus 2 kids aged 5 & 9. Ryannnair £1100, thanks. That’s right £1100 for a 2.5 hour flight.

Oh, and £2.11 for a litre of super unleaded fuel. The UK is a relatively small economy compared to the trading blocks around the world. We don’t have any leverage, so when our GOVT asks for something, the companies don’t have to oblige because the demand in most cases is in elastic.

Inflation, staff shortages, strikes, discontent. When have we been in this position in our recent history?

For example, what happened to the relaxation of the competition laws for the fuel retailers when it was relaxed due to fake shortages? This would never have happened when we were in the EU, but it is obvious now that the consumer is not benefiting from it. Will it ever change back? Unlikely, because the GOVT doesn’t have any real power.

Now, some will say it’s worse in Europe - they’ll cherry pick the sectors and the metrics, but the difference is that we have to solve all of our problems by ourselves - they can pull together as a block and resolve issues to a much better extent than we can.

Brexit will be a disaster for this country for sure. Much worse than predicted IMO. Will we ever re-join? No way Jose, but I can see a closer working relationship with the EU once this bunch of alt right fascists move on and make way for more centrist leaning policies. Until then best to make hay while the sun is shining.

With regards to that notion of full employment. This makes.for interesting reading...

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/how-are-five-m...

[Murph7355]

maz8062 said:

....

Now, some will say it’s worse in Europe - they’ll cherry pick the sectors and the metrics, but the difference is that we have to solve all of our problems by ourselves - they can pull together as a block and resolve issues to a much better extent than we can.

.... .

Doesn't being able to cherry pick suggest some things are "better" and some things "worse"?

If that's the case, aren't you cherry picking too?

How is the EU construct currently helping shortages in the Med states? For example. Or with energy in Germany?

What should the right price be for an Easyjet flight to Italy for 4? £200? Or £1,100?

If wages that support those costs are being propped up by in work benefits etc, who do you think is paying for that top up? (Clue... It will likely be people not taking Easyjet flights to Italy). Is that a good use of taxpayers' money? Is that... "fair"?

Is our current govt going to solve all of this? Sadly that seems unlikely. Would being part of the EU? Demonstrably not.

We have tough choices to make right now and every political party and layer is failing us as they are ducking them.

[Ivan stewart]

Ivan stewart said:

Kermit power said:

You're welcome to call whatever you want, however given that I was posting in it on Jan 26th (to give just one example from before we started this discussion) what do you think is most probable? That I somehow managed to interact completely randomly with other people in a thread I haven't read, or that I have read it as I said.

Anyway, feel free to come up with those tangible benefits whenever you're ready.

Apart from regaining our sovereignty, knowing that various politicians gravy trains have hit the buffers,
And most importantly it has upset Tony Blair and other total shysters , which on its own makes Brexit awesome ..

It was never about pure economics ,
Wondering if remnants will ever accept that ??

[roger.mellie]

Ivan stewart said:

It was never about pure economics ,
Wondering if remnants will ever accept that ??

Why should remnants have to accept your view? It's a good thing that acceptance isn't mandatory.

I can make up derogatory terms too but I'm not stupid enough to think it makes me the better man.

I doubt many brexiters would like reminded of the lies they told. The remain side may have lied too but they're not in the firing line for put up or shut up. Some lies matter more than others.

It may never have been about pure economics, obviously much was some supporting frog face's racism and him knowing which buttons to push, but if your looking for acceptance of your views you'll have to explain them rather than assume they should be accepted because the daily mail told you so.

[Kermit power]

Ivan stewart said:

Ivan stewart said:

Kermit power said:

You're welcome to call whatever you want, however given that I was posting in it on Jan 26th (to give just one example from before we started this discussion) what do you think is most probable? That I somehow managed to interact completely randomly with other people in a thread I haven't read, or that I have read it as I said.

Anyway, feel free to come up with those tangible benefits whenever you're ready.

Apart from regaining our sovereignty, knowing that various politicians gravy trains have hit the buffers,
And most importantly it has upset Tony Blair and other total shysters , which on its own makes Brexit awesome ..

It was never about pure economics ,
Wondering if remnants will ever accept that ??

Okay, let's just set aside the fact that you can't provide a single tangible economic benefit by saying it wasn't ever about economics.

Presumably there are tangible benefits that you could share with us in other areas?

How about civil liberties? Can you tell me of any gains in civil liberties that you have made personally that you feel justify leaving? None of this "we've regained our sovereignty" ephemera, but an actual clear tangible win?

[Kermit power]

crankedup5 said:

Evanivitch said:

crankedup5 said:

Did you and ‘your kind’ give a moments thought to people left behind by being in the EU and how the FOM suppressed wages at the lower end. No of course not! And that is the crux of this historic shift in politics, a complete disregard for half of the working electorate. Blame lies with you and ‘your sort’.

You're not even connected to reality

How's that wage growth at the lower end doing now FoM has been removed? It's doing great, right?

You've added 1 and 1 and yet again you've run out of thumbs but "durr EU!" Is to blame

We have full employment and if you have a look around you will see the ‘real World’ wages for low paid are certainly increasing. The problem we have atm is labour shortage, hence employers offering higher rates in each sector in an attempt to attract labour.
Try to respond without the childish remarks maybe.

So wages go up, inflation spirals, very few people actually feel any better off than they did before, and ultimately people will lose their jobs in the medium term as it becomes cheaper to procure the goods or services they produce elsewhere in the global village.

Do you really think it's going to end well?

In today's world, if you're being undercut by someone else, the only answer is to gain more skills so that you become more valuable than them.

[Sway]

Kermit power said:

Okay, let's just set aside the fact that you can't provide a single tangible economic benefit by saying it wasn't ever about economics.

Presumably there are tangible benefits that you could share with us in other areas?

How about civil liberties? Can you tell me of any gains in civil liberties that you have made personally that you feel justify leaving? None of this "we've regained our sovereignty" ephemera, but an actual clear tangible win?

Kermit, there have been 'tangible economic benefits' listed on this thread. I've posted some, as has Deej - and there are others. My firm has massively increased EU sales, as we're finally able to make use of the same inward processing relief for EU sales as our main competitor. The UK tariff schedule is both simpler and cheaper for importers (remember, we're a net importing nation) - and yet concurrently tariff income for the exchequer has increased.

Now you're onto 'civil liberties'?!

You're approaching this wrong. With macro level politics, it's simply impossible to prove cause and effect in the way you're looking for it. That's true in normal times (which is why economic forecasts are always, without fail, wrong) and even more so in abnormal times such as after years of frankly ridiculous negotiations followed by pandemic followed by European land war.

[anonymous-user]

Kermit power said:

Okay, let's just set aside the fact that you can't provide a single tangible economic benefit by saying it wasn't ever about economics.

Presumably there are tangible benefits that you could share with us in other areas?

How about civil liberties? Can you tell me of any gains in civil liberties that you have made personally that you feel justify leaving? None of this "we've regained our sovereignty" ephemera, but an actual clear tangible win?

This is all getting very tiresome now. I refer you back to the Benefits of Brexit thread where this has all been discussed at great lenght.
No need to repeat it all here just to satisfy your lazyness.