If Britain rejoined the EU tomorrow…

[KarlMac]

alabbasi said:

All the trade deals that we've made since with New Zealand and errr.....The Wu Tang Clan!!

Wu is for the children.

The noises about the next eurozone financial crisis could be interesting to watch from a distance. I know you we’re not 100% isolated from it but it would be nice not to have another bill to prop up the euro/ecb again.

[Jenny Tailor]

Can someone remind me - what is different about this Brexit thread from the other ones?

We have already had .....
"You didn't know what you were voting for"
"Blue Passports"
etc
etc

[loafer123]

Jenny Tailor said:

Can someone remind me - what is different about this Brexit thread from the other ones?

We have already had .....
"You didn't know what you were voting for"
"Blue Passports"
etc
etc

My particular favourite Is “bendy bananas”.

The Remainers love to quote it, but I don’t think a Leaver has in the last 6 years.

[Ivan stewart]

Jenny Tailor said:

Can someone remind me - what is different about this Brexit thread from the other ones?

We have already had .....
"You didn't know what you were voting for"
"Blue Passports"
etc
etc

Seems being a remnant is a unfortunate affliction
Must be like being born a male but feeling female
Instead they were born into the wrong country !!!
Perhaps there should be medical help offered ,
Maybe some of our usual suspects could start remoners anonymous ??

[Jenny Tailor]

NWTony said:

P. ONeill said:

If Britain rejoined the EU tomorrow, which Brexit benefits would you miss the most?

The £350m per week has probably been swallowed up during Covid, but apart from that how has life changed for the average man in the street in Britain over the last couple of years?

I thought you needed more than a thousand posts to post in here?

I think this was started in the Lounge IIRC.

[Murph7355]

Jenny Tailor said:

NWTony said:

P. ONeill said:

If Britain rejoined the EU tomorrow, which Brexit benefits would you miss the most?

The £350m per week has probably been swallowed up during Covid, but apart from that how has life changed for the average man in the street in Britain over the last couple of years?

I thought you needed more than a thousand posts to post in here?

I think this was started in the Lounge IIRC.

Shouldn't it then just have been deleted?

No point having the rule if you can just start a thread elsewhere and it be moved here

[Jenny Tailor]

Murph7355 said:

Shouldn't it then just have been deleted?

No point having the rule if you can just start a thread elsewhere and it be moved here

If you are going to make an exception....you can't really scrape lower than the bottle of the barrel than a Brexit thread. Bitterness, anger, name calling, handbags in public, and the same old dross being regurgitated. "Blue passports" ...."you didn't know what you were voting for"...etc

Brexit threads have it all.

Wonder how many will slip through the radar?

[ClaphamGT3]

FiF said:

Electro1980 said:

Ok… I’ll ask the question again. What rules (or laws) have we made that we couldn’t or what concrete benefit have we had? None of those are concrete examples of where things are better out than in. Face it, you can’t actually articulate any benefits. It’s still just the feels of a few snowflakes.

OK the derogation of the EU 3 crop rule for anyone farming an area over 35Ha. It was an absolute pita, especially in seasons with especially difficult growing conditions, and the paperwork and bureaucracy involved if you wanted to, say, drill or perform other necessary activities outside the mandated calendar periods, because of, you know, simple things like variable weather, different climates, different soil and geography. One size does not fit all. Never has, never will.

There, you can no longer say nobody has ever identified a single benefit, as would be a lie. It wasn't true when you asked it on this thread as it's been covered elsewhere previously, as have other identified benefits. Being generous it could be that you'd never seen them, being cynical it could be because you've deliberately ignored them because didn't fit your narrative.

No doubt like others it will be ignored for a bit and then the same ignorant question trotted out in the hope folks will think it's an original point.

It is a cogent and well reasoned post FiF but not one I can agree with I'm afraid. I am a shareholder in an arable farming business and our experience is that the situation in the agricultural sector is less clear, and more complex than it was within the EU and we are years away from being clear on what is replacing the EU frameworks, let alone whether they are more or less advantageous - and we are a farm that take no subsidies and only deals with regulatory/compliance issues

[FiF]

ClaphamGT3 said:

FiF said:

Electro1980 said:

Ok… I’ll ask the question again. What rules (or laws) have we made that we couldn’t or what concrete benefit have we had? None of those are concrete examples of where things are better out than in. Face it, you can’t actually articulate any benefits. It’s still just the feels of a few snowflakes.

OK the derogation of the EU 3 crop rule for anyone farming an area over 35Ha. It was an absolute pita, especially in seasons with especially difficult growing conditions, and the paperwork and bureaucracy involved if you wanted to, say, drill or perform other necessary activities outside the mandated calendar periods, because of, you know, simple things like variable weather, different climates, different soil and geography. One size does not fit all. Never has, never will.

There, you can no longer say nobody has ever identified a single benefit, as would be a lie. It wasn't true when you asked it on this thread as it's been covered elsewhere previously, as have other identified benefits. Being generous it could be that you'd never seen them, being cynical it could be because you've deliberately ignored them because didn't fit your narrative.

No doubt like others it will be ignored for a bit and then the same ignorant question trotted out in the hope folks will think it's an original point.

It is a cogent and well reasoned post FiF but not one I can agree with I'm afraid. I am a shareholder in an arable farming business and our experience is that the situation in the agricultural sector is less clear, and more complex than it was within the EU and we are years away from being clear on what is replacing the EU frameworks, let alone whether they are more or less advantageous - and we are a farm that take no subsidies and only deals with regulatory/compliance issues

The point I've been trying to get to, is that there is the opportunity, yet the implementation has been piss poor, and the reality is that for a whole host of reasons, some significant ones absolutely nothing to with Brexit, then I'd agree that at the moment things are less clear and more complicated. It's down to government and the authorities to sort that, the opportunity is still there, where it just wasn't before.

That situation can be argued across a whole range of industries not just agriculture. The Brexit bonus appears to be in the process of being wasted, but in fairness things were never going to happen overnight.

Also since this particular Govt and PM came to power, has there been a period where one could say normal politics and circumstances prevailed. Not given as an excuse, merely an observation.

[heebeegeetee]

Murph7355 said:

What we do with that benefit will take time. The EU has been going for 30yrs....and yet the real, tangible and irrefutable benefits remained woolly. You need to be patient.

Stap me they absolutely did not. What's wooley about freedom to travel, work and study etc?

This is like the ECHR threads. The liberties granted literally are taken for granted, they become totally normalised such that we think they are birthright, life without them is hard to imagine and we become extraordinarily lax about whether we keep them or not. People could do with reading more about European history, imo.

BTW, can anyone confirm, if UK and EU go to a trade war, we lose our 90/180 access and move to having to apply for visas for each country we want to visit?

[skwdenyer]

FiF said:

The point I've been trying to get to, is that there is the opportunity, yet the implementation has been piss poor, and the reality is that for a whole host of reasons, some significant ones absolutely nothing to with Brexit, then I'd agree that at the moment things are less clear and more complicated. It's down to government and the authorities to sort that, the opportunity is still there, where it just wasn't before.

That situation can be argued across a whole range of industries not just agriculture. The Brexit bonus appears to be in the process of being wasted, but in fairness things were never going to happen overnight.

Also since this particular Govt and PM came to power, has there been a period where one could say normal politics and circumstances prevailed. Not given as an excuse, merely an observation.

Put another way: membership of the EEC/EC/EU allowed the British economy to revive and thrive. Rules were made by professionals, avoiding the stshow of British politics that hampered us before.

Your post suggests that the stshow is still there, and still ready to revert to type.

As I said a few pages ago, many in the UK knew something as badly wrong with our economy and politics in 2009-15. What we needed was a revolution to get better UK Government. Instead we’ve thrown away the benefits of the EU but done nothing to fix the catastrophic problems with UK Government.

As you say yourself, despite years of planning doing nothing, Government had no idea of what to do about agriculture. That’s good evidence of the same old nonsense that led us to, say, spaff our Marshall Plan money up the wall (crippling us for a generation), smash the golden egg of North Sea oil, and so on.

You mention the latter can be improved. How? Will you vote for a party offering Proportional Representation, a proper Constitution, checks & balances on executive overreach & clear requirements to act in the public benefit? If not, what will make things change?

Compared to the ways in which our own Governments routinely cock things up, the EU was a sideshow

[Electro1980]

loafer123 said:

My particular favourite Is “bendy bananas”.

The Remainers love to quote it, but I don’t think a Leaver has in the last 6 years.

You’re aware of the bendy banana nonsense aren’t you? It’s using that as an example of how the media manipulate lots of the anger. The other one is the claims the EU wanted to ban British sausages.

[Murph7355]

heebeegeetee said:

Stap me they absolutely did not. What's wooley about freedom to travel, work and study etc? ....

You can still travel. I do it regularly. Study abroad? Still possible...but what %age of people actually did it?

It has nothing to do with taking things for granted. The things are still possible.

But what I don't personally value is being able to stay in EU states unable to sustain myself "just because". It's not something I want people to be able to do here, and as I'm a fair kinda guy, I don't expect others to have to take me in either.

[spaximus]

Those who wish to re-join now are missing a vital point and that is things have changed.

When Cameron announced he was going to give us the vote, my brother was living in France as his family still do (he sadly died). On the TV were the French and EU politicians saying that this was great news.

They saw it as an opportunity to get control. If the UK public voted to stay they would work to remove all veto's and rebates and if they decided to leave they would extract every bit they could to put others of leaving.

As we voted to leave sadly they have taken option two and continue to make life and business much harder for us than before.

So do people think that the EU would open up their arms and welcome us back in with the same deal as we had before? There is no way we would get that and a condition would be the Euro as well as an EU army.

All they needed to do was to throw Cameron a small concession but they chose not to do so.

[Murph7355]

Electro1980 said:

loafer123 said:

My particular favourite Is “bendy bananas”.

The Remainers love to quote it, but I don’t think a Leaver has in the last 6 years.

You’re aware of the bendy banana nonsense aren’t you? It’s using that as an example of how the media manipulate lots of the anger. The other one is the claims the EU wanted to ban British sausages.

What loafer is pointing out is that the people who get the frothiest on those gems are....Remain voters. Thinking every Leave voter gave a st about them. They didn't.

Who was played the most? Leave voters getting upset about bendy bananas? Or Remain voters thinking that level of guff was all we cared about...

[Jenny Tailor]

spaximus said:

Those who wish to re-join now are missing a vital point and that is things have changed.

When Cameron announced he was going to give us the vote, my brother was living in France as his family still do (he sadly died). On the TV were the French and EU politicians saying that this was great news.

They saw it as an opportunity to get control. If the UK public voted to stay they would work to remove all veto's and rebates and if they decided to leave they would extract every bit they could to put others of leaving.

As we voted to leave sadly they have taken option two and continue to make life and business much harder for us than before.

So do people think that the EU would open up their arms and welcome us back in with the same deal as we had before? There is no way we would get that and a condition would be the Euro as well as an EU army.

All they needed to do was to throw Cameron a small concession but they chose not to do so.

Would you want to get into bed with someone who treats you that badly?
It's just another bit of evidence that the UK was right to leave.

[loafer123]

Electro1980 said:

You’re aware of the bendy banana nonsense aren’t you? It’s using that as an example of how the media manipulate lots of the anger. The other one is the claims the EU wanted to ban British sausages.

I’m aware of the nonsense headline a long time ago…was it a decade or more?

The point is that Leavers don’t use it as a reason for leaving, despite your assertions.

[heebeegeetee]

Murph7355 said:

You can still travel. I do it regularly. Study abroad? Still possible...but what %age of people actually did it?

Absolutely not as before, we can't. I accept that for most people 'travel' means a 2 week holiday once a year, but there are still a great many who do more than that, and they/we have been significantly negatively impacted upon.

I just read some more about the visa process for European countries. I am stting myself over the prospect of a trade war, should it mean that that is the process we'd have to follow as a result.

[heebeegeetee]

Jenny Tailor said:

spaximus said:

Those who wish to re-join now are missing a vital point and that is things have changed.

When Cameron announced he was going to give us the vote, my brother was living in France as his family still do (he sadly died). On the TV were the French and EU politicians saying that this was great news.

They saw it as an opportunity to get control. If the UK public voted to stay they would work to remove all veto's and rebates and if they decided to leave they would extract every bit they could to put others of leaving.

As we voted to leave sadly they have taken option two and continue to make life and business much harder for us than before.

So do people think that the EU would open up their arms and welcome us back in with the same deal as we had before? There is no way we would get that and a condition would be the Euro as well as an EU army.

All they needed to do was to throw Cameron a small concession but they chose not to do so.

Would you want to get into bed with someone who treats you that badly?
It's just another bit of evidence that the UK was right to leave.

Evidence? It's absolutely not evidence. For all we know Spaximus might have been watching the French equivalence of Johnson/Farage/Banks and all their "evidence".

What is a fact is that the costs of the EU are the same, or more so now with Ukraine and forthcoming food shortages etc, but the burden of the cost is spread amongst one major contributor less, and I can't imagine anyone being pleased about that.

[crankedup5]

I pondered how many people work within the ‘whole’ EU that keep it all running, apparently it’s around 60,000 employees. Because I have nothing better to do this morning I looked up the pay packages for EU Commission employees. No. wonder UK politicians liked the idea of taking a seat over there. Gravy train doesn’t cover it, it’s the first time I have bothered to have a look at the pay rates, thankfully I can be happy that my money no longer contributes to that gravey train, apart from some tied in obligations of course.