How About Another EU Referendum?
Poll: How About Another EU Referendum?
Total Members Polled: 462
Discussion
StevieBee said:
I'd agree with this, normally.
However, to use an analogy, we voted to go on holiday to Barbados but have ended up in Bognor.
Are you saying what we were promised isn't true?However, to use an analogy, we voted to go on holiday to Barbados but have ended up in Bognor.
https://youtu.be/FIpT58Oxd-A
I'm sure all of that is coming true
Murph7355 said:
I'm interested to know what you expect when threads like this are started?
Do you expect people with opposing views simply to not bother replying to these threads?
They all end up the same way. But I'm not sure that replies by those who are less pro-EU are any more "defensive" as those starting them are.
The whole situation is very interesting from a social perspective. I don't see how the "debate" will ever be resolved.
In my case it will never be resolved. Those responsible for leave campaign will never be forgiven by people like me. I should explain:Do you expect people with opposing views simply to not bother replying to these threads?
They all end up the same way. But I'm not sure that replies by those who are less pro-EU are any more "defensive" as those starting them are.
The whole situation is very interesting from a social perspective. I don't see how the "debate" will ever be resolved.
1. My wife is European. My children's grandparents are European. We now have limits on how much time our kids can spend with their grandparents.
2. When the treaty of Lisbon was signed, I looked at what it actually meant. It meant lots and lots of opportunity for people who could be bothered to go and work all over Europe. So I did. And, being blunt, I made a seriously good amount of money by doing so. (You could say I went over there and nicked their jobs if you were so inclined). That's now been ended by people who didn't want to take the opportunities that the EU presented.
3. The structure of the leave campaign effectively supported and legitimised racism. Remember Farage's immigrant poster, and other similar messages? I have absolutely zero tolerance for racism in any form, yet we see it starting to build across the UK once again.
4. A large part of 'Vote Leave' was bankrolled by Russia, as it's in Russia's interests to weaken the EU and NATO. They're not doing that for fun, yet we blindly went along with their desires to weaken the EU. Thankfully Russia has largely failed in this area, as seen by the response to Ukraine. The EU is now down to a single Nuclear capable country, and let's face it, France is hardly known as a particularly effective military nation. Those who campaign against an EU military seem to have forgotten what's lurking just a few kilometres to the East.
The thread title asks 'How about another EU Referendum?' No. Absolutely not. We're out, and attempting to get back in would be a long and difficult, if not impossible, process. In all likelihood the EU wouldn't want us back anyway. Contrary to what BJ says, Brexit can't just be 'undone', 'reversed', or 'stolen'. We're a third country now as far as the EU is concerned, and we have to work on that basis.
But just to be clear: I loathe Brexit, and I loathe the people who orchestrated it and manipulated the masses into voting for it.
roger.mellie said:
Yes it can consider moving back to pounds and ounces, the rest of the world will not use those measures when dealing with the UK so it has the freedom to make life harder for itself. Petty example but demonstrative nonetheless of the level of thinking among some.
I don't believe moving back to imperial is being considered.Magnum 475 said:
In my case it will never be resolved. Those responsible for leave campaign will never be forgiven by people like me. I should explain:
1. My wife is European. My children's grandparents are European. We now have limits on how much time our kids can spend with their grandparents.
2. When the treaty of Lisbon was signed, I looked at what it actually meant. It meant lots and lots of opportunity for people who could be bothered to go and work all over Europe. So I did. And, being blunt, I made a seriously good amount of money by doing so. (You could say I went over there and nicked their jobs if you were so inclined). That's now been ended by people who didn't want to take the opportunities that the EU presented.
3. The structure of the leave campaign effectively supported and legitimised racism. Remember Farage's immigrant poster, and other similar messages? I have absolutely zero tolerance for racism in any form, yet we see it starting to build across the UK once again.
4. A large part of 'Vote Leave' was bankrolled by Russia, as it's in Russia's interests to weaken the EU and NATO. They're not doing that for fun, yet we blindly went along with their desires to weaken the EU. Thankfully Russia has largely failed in this area, as seen by the response to Ukraine. The EU is now down to a single Nuclear capable country, and let's face it, France is hardly known as a particularly effective military nation. Those who campaign against an EU military seem to have forgotten what's lurking just a few kilometres to the East.
The thread title asks 'How about another EU Referendum?' No. Absolutely not. We're out, and attempting to get back in would be a long and difficult, if not impossible, process. In all likelihood the EU wouldn't want us back anyway. Contrary to what BJ says, Brexit can't just be 'undone', 'reversed', or 'stolen'. We're a third country now as far as the EU is concerned, and we have to work on that basis.
But just to be clear: I loathe Brexit, and I loathe the people who orchestrated it and manipulated the masses into voting for it.
I agree with every word of that. Good post. 1. My wife is European. My children's grandparents are European. We now have limits on how much time our kids can spend with their grandparents.
2. When the treaty of Lisbon was signed, I looked at what it actually meant. It meant lots and lots of opportunity for people who could be bothered to go and work all over Europe. So I did. And, being blunt, I made a seriously good amount of money by doing so. (You could say I went over there and nicked their jobs if you were so inclined). That's now been ended by people who didn't want to take the opportunities that the EU presented.
3. The structure of the leave campaign effectively supported and legitimised racism. Remember Farage's immigrant poster, and other similar messages? I have absolutely zero tolerance for racism in any form, yet we see it starting to build across the UK once again.
4. A large part of 'Vote Leave' was bankrolled by Russia, as it's in Russia's interests to weaken the EU and NATO. They're not doing that for fun, yet we blindly went along with their desires to weaken the EU. Thankfully Russia has largely failed in this area, as seen by the response to Ukraine. The EU is now down to a single Nuclear capable country, and let's face it, France is hardly known as a particularly effective military nation. Those who campaign against an EU military seem to have forgotten what's lurking just a few kilometres to the East.
The thread title asks 'How about another EU Referendum?' No. Absolutely not. We're out, and attempting to get back in would be a long and difficult, if not impossible, process. In all likelihood the EU wouldn't want us back anyway. Contrary to what BJ says, Brexit can't just be 'undone', 'reversed', or 'stolen'. We're a third country now as far as the EU is concerned, and we have to work on that basis.
But just to be clear: I loathe Brexit, and I loathe the people who orchestrated it and manipulated the masses into voting for it.
StevieBee said:
However, to use an analogy, we voted to go on holiday to Barbados but have ended up in Bognor.
100 people voted on having a holiday. 25 didn't vote, 39 voted for a foreign holiday, 36 voted for a UK holiday. The democratic thing to do would have been to go on a foreign holiday, but not too far. France, Maybe Northern Spain at a push. We've gone trekking in Borneo. CharlesdeGaulle said:
Magnum 475 said:
In my case it will never be resolved. Those responsible for leave campaign will never be forgiven by people like me. I should explain:
1. My wife is European. My children's grandparents are European. We now have limits on how much time our kids can spend with their grandparents.
2. When the treaty of Lisbon was signed, I looked at what it actually meant. It meant lots and lots of opportunity for people who could be bothered to go and work all over Europe. So I did. And, being blunt, I made a seriously good amount of money by doing so. (You could say I went over there and nicked their jobs if you were so inclined). That's now been ended by people who didn't want to take the opportunities that the EU presented.
3. The structure of the leave campaign effectively supported and legitimised racism. Remember Farage's immigrant poster, and other similar messages? I have absolutely zero tolerance for racism in any form, yet we see it starting to build across the UK once again.
4. A large part of 'Vote Leave' was bankrolled by Russia, as it's in Russia's interests to weaken the EU and NATO. They're not doing that for fun, yet we blindly went along with their desires to weaken the EU. Thankfully Russia has largely failed in this area, as seen by the response to Ukraine. The EU is now down to a single Nuclear capable country, and let's face it, France is hardly known as a particularly effective military nation. Those who campaign against an EU military seem to have forgotten what's lurking just a few kilometres to the East.
The thread title asks 'How about another EU Referendum?' No. Absolutely not. We're out, and attempting to get back in would be a long and difficult, if not impossible, process. In all likelihood the EU wouldn't want us back anyway. Contrary to what BJ says, Brexit can't just be 'undone', 'reversed', or 'stolen'. We're a third country now as far as the EU is concerned, and we have to work on that basis.
But just to be clear: I loathe Brexit, and I loathe the people who orchestrated it and manipulated the masses into voting for it.
I agree with every word of that. Good post. 1. My wife is European. My children's grandparents are European. We now have limits on how much time our kids can spend with their grandparents.
2. When the treaty of Lisbon was signed, I looked at what it actually meant. It meant lots and lots of opportunity for people who could be bothered to go and work all over Europe. So I did. And, being blunt, I made a seriously good amount of money by doing so. (You could say I went over there and nicked their jobs if you were so inclined). That's now been ended by people who didn't want to take the opportunities that the EU presented.
3. The structure of the leave campaign effectively supported and legitimised racism. Remember Farage's immigrant poster, and other similar messages? I have absolutely zero tolerance for racism in any form, yet we see it starting to build across the UK once again.
4. A large part of 'Vote Leave' was bankrolled by Russia, as it's in Russia's interests to weaken the EU and NATO. They're not doing that for fun, yet we blindly went along with their desires to weaken the EU. Thankfully Russia has largely failed in this area, as seen by the response to Ukraine. The EU is now down to a single Nuclear capable country, and let's face it, France is hardly known as a particularly effective military nation. Those who campaign against an EU military seem to have forgotten what's lurking just a few kilometres to the East.
The thread title asks 'How about another EU Referendum?' No. Absolutely not. We're out, and attempting to get back in would be a long and difficult, if not impossible, process. In all likelihood the EU wouldn't want us back anyway. Contrary to what BJ says, Brexit can't just be 'undone', 'reversed', or 'stolen'. We're a third country now as far as the EU is concerned, and we have to work on that basis.
But just to be clear: I loathe Brexit, and I loathe the people who orchestrated it and manipulated the masses into voting for it.
roger.mellie said:
TonyToniTone said:
I don't believe moving back to imperial is being considered.
I'll not bother linking but it is.The most amusing bit of it is the assumption that one rule for us is considered British culture by some.
Whilst ridiculous as no company would add additional weights to their packaging, moving back to imperial isn't being considered.
Magnum 475 said:
Murph7355 said:
I'm interested to know what you expect when threads like this are started?
Do you expect people with opposing views simply to not bother replying to these threads?
They all end up the same way. But I'm not sure that replies by those who are less pro-EU are any more "defensive" as those starting them are.
The whole situation is very interesting from a social perspective. I don't see how the "debate" will ever be resolved.
In my case it will never be resolved. Those responsible for leave campaign will never be forgiven by people like me. I should explain:Do you expect people with opposing views simply to not bother replying to these threads?
They all end up the same way. But I'm not sure that replies by those who are less pro-EU are any more "defensive" as those starting them are.
The whole situation is very interesting from a social perspective. I don't see how the "debate" will ever be resolved.
1. My wife is European. My children's grandparents are European. We now have limits on how much time our kids can spend with their grandparents.
2. When the treaty of Lisbon was signed, I looked at what it actually meant. It meant lots and lots of opportunity for people who could be bothered to go and work all over Europe. So I did. And, being blunt, I made a seriously good amount of money by doing so. (You could say I went over there and nicked their jobs if you were so inclined). That's now been ended by people who didn't want to take the opportunities that the EU presented.
3. The structure of the leave campaign effectively supported and legitimised racism. Remember Farage's immigrant poster, and other similar messages? I have absolutely zero tolerance for racism in any form, yet we see it starting to build across the UK once again.
4. A large part of 'Vote Leave' was bankrolled by Russia, as it's in Russia's interests to weaken the EU and NATO. They're not doing that for fun, yet we blindly went along with their desires to weaken the EU. Thankfully Russia has largely failed in this area, as seen by the response to Ukraine. The EU is now down to a single Nuclear capable country, and let's face it, France is hardly known as a particularly effective military nation. Those who campaign against an EU military seem to have forgotten what's lurking just a few kilometres to the East.
The thread title asks 'How about another EU Referendum?' No. Absolutely not. We're out, and attempting to get back in would be a long and difficult, if not impossible, process. In all likelihood the EU wouldn't want us back anyway. Contrary to what BJ says, Brexit can't just be 'undone', 'reversed', or 'stolen'. We're a third country now as far as the EU is concerned, and we have to work on that basis.
But just to be clear: I loathe Brexit, and I loathe the people who orchestrated it and manipulated the masses into voting for it.
Why does an economic union need nuclear weapons and armed forces? Each country has its own forces and can support other countries if it wants to, and those that want guaranteed safety in numbers can join NATO.
I've served in the UK armed forces but I wouldn't serve in an EU armed force.
Magnum 475 said:
In my case it will never be resolved. Those responsible for leave campaign will never be forgiven by people like me. I should explain:
1. My wife is European. My children's grandparents are European. We now have limits on how much time our kids can spend with their grandparents.
2. When the treaty of Lisbon was signed, I looked at what it actually meant. It meant lots and lots of opportunity for people who could be bothered to go and work all over Europe. So I did. And, being blunt, I made a seriously good amount of money by doing so. (You could say I went over there and nicked their jobs if you were so inclined). That's now been ended by people who didn't want to take the opportunities that the EU presented.
How is that any different from the relationship with any non EU country? Is the limit to how much time you can spend in the US or Australia something you 'loathe'? The opportunities are still there, for those who can be bothered to fill in a few forms, but of course they are already taking advantage of the opportunities in Australia and the USA, in fact the whole of the rest of the world.1. My wife is European. My children's grandparents are European. We now have limits on how much time our kids can spend with their grandparents.
2. When the treaty of Lisbon was signed, I looked at what it actually meant. It meant lots and lots of opportunity for people who could be bothered to go and work all over Europe. So I did. And, being blunt, I made a seriously good amount of money by doing so. (You could say I went over there and nicked their jobs if you were so inclined). That's now been ended by people who didn't want to take the opportunities that the EU presented.
Magnum 475 said:
3. The structure of the leave campaign effectively supported and legitimised racism. Remember Farage's immigrant poster, and other similar messages? I have absolutely zero tolerance for racism in any form, yet we see it starting to build across the UK once again.
Farage was not part of the official Leave campaign, partly because the more he appeared on TV the more support Remain got.Magnum 475 said:
4. A large part of 'Vote Leave' was bankrolled by Russia, as it's in Russia's interests to weaken the EU and NATO. They're not doing that for fun, yet we blindly went along with their desires to weaken the EU. Thankfully Russia has largely failed in this area, as seen by the response to Ukraine. The EU is now down to a single Nuclear capable country, and let's face it, France is hardly known as a particularly effective military nation. Those who campaign against an EU military seem to have forgotten what's lurking just a few kilometres to the East.
If so it didn't work very well did it.Magnum 475 said:
The thread title asks 'How about another EU Referendum?' No. Absolutely not. We're out, and attempting to get back in would be a long and difficult, if not impossible, process. In all likelihood the EU wouldn't want us back anyway. Contrary to what BJ says, Brexit can't just be 'undone', 'reversed', or 'stolen'. We're a third country now as far as the EU is concerned, and we have to work on that basis.
But just to be clear: I loathe Brexit, and I loathe the people who orchestrated it and manipulated the masses into voting for it.
Do you loathe i because someone manipulated you into voting against it? Or do you claim some unique ability for independent judgement which I, as one of the 'masses' lack?But just to be clear: I loathe Brexit, and I loathe the people who orchestrated it and manipulated the masses into voting for it.
98elise said:
Magnum 475 said:
Murph7355 said:
I'm interested to know what you expect when threads like this are started?
Do you expect people with opposing views simply to not bother replying to these threads?
They all end up the same way. But I'm not sure that replies by those who are less pro-EU are any more "defensive" as those starting them are.
The whole situation is very interesting from a social perspective. I don't see how the "debate" will ever be resolved.
In my case it will never be resolved. Those responsible for leave campaign will never be forgiven by people like me. I should explain:Do you expect people with opposing views simply to not bother replying to these threads?
They all end up the same way. But I'm not sure that replies by those who are less pro-EU are any more "defensive" as those starting them are.
The whole situation is very interesting from a social perspective. I don't see how the "debate" will ever be resolved.
1. My wife is European. My children's grandparents are European. We now have limits on how much time our kids can spend with their grandparents.
2. When the treaty of Lisbon was signed, I looked at what it actually meant. It meant lots and lots of opportunity for people who could be bothered to go and work all over Europe. So I did. And, being blunt, I made a seriously good amount of money by doing so. (You could say I went over there and nicked their jobs if you were so inclined). That's now been ended by people who didn't want to take the opportunities that the EU presented.
3. The structure of the leave campaign effectively supported and legitimised racism. Remember Farage's immigrant poster, and other similar messages? I have absolutely zero tolerance for racism in any form, yet we see it starting to build across the UK once again.
4. A large part of 'Vote Leave' was bankrolled by Russia, as it's in Russia's interests to weaken the EU and NATO. They're not doing that for fun, yet we blindly went along with their desires to weaken the EU. Thankfully Russia has largely failed in this area, as seen by the response to Ukraine. The EU is now down to a single Nuclear capable country, and let's face it, France is hardly known as a particularly effective military nation. Those who campaign against an EU military seem to have forgotten what's lurking just a few kilometres to the East.
The thread title asks 'How about another EU Referendum?' No. Absolutely not. We're out, and attempting to get back in would be a long and difficult, if not impossible, process. In all likelihood the EU wouldn't want us back anyway. Contrary to what BJ says, Brexit can't just be 'undone', 'reversed', or 'stolen'. We're a third country now as far as the EU is concerned, and we have to work on that basis.
But just to be clear: I loathe Brexit, and I loathe the people who orchestrated it and manipulated the masses into voting for it.
Why does an economic union need nuclear weapons and armed forces? Each country has its own forces and can support other countries if it wants to, and those that want guaranteed safety in numbers can join NATO.
I've served in the UK armed forces but I wouldn't serve in an EU armed force.
Magnum 475 said:
Murph7355 said:
I'm interested to know what you expect when threads like this are started?
Do you expect people with opposing views simply to not bother replying to these threads?
They all end up the same way. But I'm not sure that replies by those who are less pro-EU are any more "defensive" as those starting them are.
The whole situation is very interesting from a social perspective. I don't see how the "debate" will ever be resolved.
In my case it will never be resolved. Those responsible for leave campaign will never be forgiven by people like me. I should explain:Do you expect people with opposing views simply to not bother replying to these threads?
They all end up the same way. But I'm not sure that replies by those who are less pro-EU are any more "defensive" as those starting them are.
The whole situation is very interesting from a social perspective. I don't see how the "debate" will ever be resolved.
1. My wife is European. My children's grandparents are European. We now have limits on how much time our kids can spend with their grandparents.
2. When the treaty of Lisbon was signed, I looked at what it actually meant. It meant lots and lots of opportunity for people who could be bothered to go and work all over Europe. So I did. And, being blunt, I made a seriously good amount of money by doing so. (You could say I went over there and nicked their jobs if you were so inclined). That's now been ended by people who didn't want to take the opportunities that the EU presented.
3. The structure of the leave campaign effectively supported and legitimised racism. Remember Farage's immigrant poster, and other similar messages? I have absolutely zero tolerance for racism in any form, yet we see it starting to build across the UK once again.
4. A large part of 'Vote Leave' was bankrolled by Russia, as it's in Russia's interests to weaken the EU and NATO. They're not doing that for fun, yet we blindly went along with their desires to weaken the EU. Thankfully Russia has largely failed in this area, as seen by the response to Ukraine. The EU is now down to a single Nuclear capable country, and let's face it, France is hardly known as a particularly effective military nation. Those who campaign against an EU military seem to have forgotten what's lurking just a few kilometres to the East.
The thread title asks 'How about another EU Referendum?' No. Absolutely not. We're out, and attempting to get back in would be a long and difficult, if not impossible, process. In all likelihood the EU wouldn't want us back anyway. Contrary to what BJ says, Brexit can't just be 'undone', 'reversed', or 'stolen'. We're a third country now as far as the EU is concerned, and we have to work on that basis.
But just to be clear: I loathe Brexit, and I loathe the people who orchestrated it and manipulated the masses into voting for it.
My Mum was Belgian, my Dad English, but our grandparents and great grandparents on both sides were from France Germany and Southern Ireland.
Even before the EU existed, and when transport, and communications, were not a patch on what they are now, we had NO trouble visiting our relatives `whenever' we wanted to.
When it came to migration for work, 3.3 million European citizens came to live and work in the UK in a single ten year period, whilst in the same ten year period, only eight hundred thousand from the UK, moved the other way, into the European mainland, (and most of those were retirees, taking their cash with them) A friends son went to work for Airbus Industrie, and when things started to get a bit tight for that particular sector of the aviation industry, he got the sack even though he was more qualified than many of the French workers doing the same job, who all kept `their' jobs. If the EU was so wonderful for UK workers, why did so many EU citizens come to the UK, and so few UK citizens go into the EU for work?
No one in the UK voted, or was even given the chance to vote on whether or not, they wanted the UK to be a member of the EU in the first place (at least not until 2016 when they vote by over 1.4 million more votes to leave)
The UK was one of the few European counties which fulfilled its financial commitments to NATO, with some of the EU`s basket case economies, paying nothing towards it, whilst some of the richer EU countries (which arguably had the most to lose in the event of a Russian invasion) did not pay they full share of their NATO subscription. The UK gave a stronger commitment towards supporting the Ukraine, than the entire EU. Which was acknowledged by President Zelensky. But why believe the president of the country being attacked by Russia?
The UK was the second greatest net contributor of funds into the EU`s coffers after Germany, and ran a 90 plus billion pounds a year trade deficit with the EU for all but one of the years it was a member. But apparently the UK`s contributions into the EU were `insignificant'
Just to be clear, I loath those who did not care about the relationship the UK had with the EU, just a long as `they' were making some money out of it.
Edited by Pan Pan Pan on Tuesday 28th June 10:39
TwigtheWonderkid said:
CharlesdeGaulle said:
Magnum 475 said:
In my case it will never be resolved. Those responsible for leave campaign will never be forgiven by people like me. I should explain:
1. My wife is European. My children's grandparents are European. We now have limits on how much time our kids can spend with their grandparents.
2. When the treaty of Lisbon was signed, I looked at what it actually meant. It meant lots and lots of opportunity for people who could be bothered to go and work all over Europe. So I did. And, being blunt, I made a seriously good amount of money by doing so. (You could say I went over there and nicked their jobs if you were so inclined). That's now been ended by people who didn't want to take the opportunities that the EU presented.
3. The structure of the leave campaign effectively supported and legitimised racism. Remember Farage's immigrant poster, and other similar messages? I have absolutely zero tolerance for racism in any form, yet we see it starting to build across the UK once again.
4. A large part of 'Vote Leave' was bankrolled by Russia, as it's in Russia's interests to weaken the EU and NATO. They're not doing that for fun, yet we blindly went along with their desires to weaken the EU. Thankfully Russia has largely failed in this area, as seen by the response to Ukraine. The EU is now down to a single Nuclear capable country, and let's face it, France is hardly known as a particularly effective military nation. Those who campaign against an EU military seem to have forgotten what's lurking just a few kilometres to the East.
The thread title asks 'How about another EU Referendum?' No. Absolutely not. We're out, and attempting to get back in would be a long and difficult, if not impossible, process. In all likelihood the EU wouldn't want us back anyway. Contrary to what BJ says, Brexit can't just be 'undone', 'reversed', or 'stolen'. We're a third country now as far as the EU is concerned, and we have to work on that basis.
But just to be clear: I loathe Brexit, and I loathe the people who orchestrated it and manipulated the masses into voting for it.
I agree with every word of that. Good post. 1. My wife is European. My children's grandparents are European. We now have limits on how much time our kids can spend with their grandparents.
2. When the treaty of Lisbon was signed, I looked at what it actually meant. It meant lots and lots of opportunity for people who could be bothered to go and work all over Europe. So I did. And, being blunt, I made a seriously good amount of money by doing so. (You could say I went over there and nicked their jobs if you were so inclined). That's now been ended by people who didn't want to take the opportunities that the EU presented.
3. The structure of the leave campaign effectively supported and legitimised racism. Remember Farage's immigrant poster, and other similar messages? I have absolutely zero tolerance for racism in any form, yet we see it starting to build across the UK once again.
4. A large part of 'Vote Leave' was bankrolled by Russia, as it's in Russia's interests to weaken the EU and NATO. They're not doing that for fun, yet we blindly went along with their desires to weaken the EU. Thankfully Russia has largely failed in this area, as seen by the response to Ukraine. The EU is now down to a single Nuclear capable country, and let's face it, France is hardly known as a particularly effective military nation. Those who campaign against an EU military seem to have forgotten what's lurking just a few kilometres to the East.
The thread title asks 'How about another EU Referendum?' No. Absolutely not. We're out, and attempting to get back in would be a long and difficult, if not impossible, process. In all likelihood the EU wouldn't want us back anyway. Contrary to what BJ says, Brexit can't just be 'undone', 'reversed', or 'stolen'. We're a third country now as far as the EU is concerned, and we have to work on that basis.
But just to be clear: I loathe Brexit, and I loathe the people who orchestrated it and manipulated the masses into voting for it.
roger.mellie said:
Balls.
A big myth about brexit is the one that the UK can make its own rules independently of others.
More than ever it's now a rule taker rather than a rule maker.
Yes it can consider moving back to pounds and ounces, the rest of the world will not use those measures when dealing with the UK so it has the freedom to make life harder for itself. Petty example but demonstrative nonetheless of the level of thinking among some.
I'm not a complete cynic when it comes to there being some advantages leaving the EU but some absolute bulls
t is talked about it too.
Nobody is suggesting a move back to pounds and ounces though are they............people are now free to use metric or imperial or both; whatever suits their particular circumstances. What is the issue with this flexibility.A big myth about brexit is the one that the UK can make its own rules independently of others.
More than ever it's now a rule taker rather than a rule maker.
Yes it can consider moving back to pounds and ounces, the rest of the world will not use those measures when dealing with the UK so it has the freedom to make life harder for itself. Petty example but demonstrative nonetheless of the level of thinking among some.
I'm not a complete cynic when it comes to there being some advantages leaving the EU but some absolute bulls
t is talked about it too.People in the UK drink pints, use feet and inches for height, use miles to describe distances, car speeds and fuel consumption. They also use metric systems when it suits them too.
Few would describe the aviation industry as being full of regressive luddites just because they persevere with imperial units used to define ceiling heights, distances and air speeds etc.
Pan Pan Pan said:
Your post is wrong on several counts.
My Mum was Belgian, my Dad English, but our grandparents and great grandparents on both sides were from France Germany and Southern Ireland.
Even before the EU existed, and when transport, and communications, were not a patch on what they are now, we had NO trouble visiting our relatives `whenever' we wanted to.
When it came to migration for work, 3.3 million European citizens came to live and work in the UK in a single ten year period, whilst in the same ten year period, only eight hundred thousand from the UK, moved the other way, into the European mainland, (and most of those were retirees, taking their cash with them) A friends son went to work for Airbus Industrie, and when things started to get a bit tight for that particular sector of the aviation industry, he got the sack even though he was more qualified than many of the French workers doing the same job, who all kept `their' jobs. If the EU was so wonderful for UK workers, why did so many EU citizens come to the UK, and so few UK citizens go into the EU for work?
No one in the UK voted, or was even given the chance to vote on whether or not, they wanted the UK to be a member of the EU in the first place (at least not until 2016 when they vote by over 1.4 million more votes to leave)
The UK was one of the few European counties which fulfilled its financial commitments to NATO, with some of the EU`s basket case economies, paying nothing towards it, whilst some of the richer EU countries (which arguably had the most to lose in the event of a Russian invasion) did not pay they full share of their NATO subscription. The UK gave a stronger commitment towards supporting the Ukraine, than the entire EU. Which was acknowledged by President Zelensky. But why believe the president of the country being attacked by Russia?
The UK was the second greatest net contributor of funds into the EU`s coffers after Germany, and ran a 90 plus billion pounds a year trade deficit with the EU for all but one of the years it was a member. But apparently the UK`s contributions into the EU were `insignificant'
Just to be clear, I loath those who did not care about the relationship the UK had with the EU, just a long as `they' were making some money out of it.
Exactly, I'm pretty sure travel to see grandparents to the EU is still allowed.My Mum was Belgian, my Dad English, but our grandparents and great grandparents on both sides were from France Germany and Southern Ireland.
Even before the EU existed, and when transport, and communications, were not a patch on what they are now, we had NO trouble visiting our relatives `whenever' we wanted to.
When it came to migration for work, 3.3 million European citizens came to live and work in the UK in a single ten year period, whilst in the same ten year period, only eight hundred thousand from the UK, moved the other way, into the European mainland, (and most of those were retirees, taking their cash with them) A friends son went to work for Airbus Industrie, and when things started to get a bit tight for that particular sector of the aviation industry, he got the sack even though he was more qualified than many of the French workers doing the same job, who all kept `their' jobs. If the EU was so wonderful for UK workers, why did so many EU citizens come to the UK, and so few UK citizens go into the EU for work?
No one in the UK voted, or was even given the chance to vote on whether or not, they wanted the UK to be a member of the EU in the first place (at least not until 2016 when they vote by over 1.4 million more votes to leave)
The UK was one of the few European counties which fulfilled its financial commitments to NATO, with some of the EU`s basket case economies, paying nothing towards it, whilst some of the richer EU countries (which arguably had the most to lose in the event of a Russian invasion) did not pay they full share of their NATO subscription. The UK gave a stronger commitment towards supporting the Ukraine, than the entire EU. Which was acknowledged by President Zelensky. But why believe the president of the country being attacked by Russia?
The UK was the second greatest net contributor of funds into the EU`s coffers after Germany, and ran a 90 plus billion pounds a year trade deficit with the EU for all but one of the years it was a member. But apparently the UK`s contributions into the EU were `insignificant'
Just to be clear, I loath those who did not care about the relationship the UK had with the EU, just a long as `they' were making some money out of it.
Edited by Pan Pan Pan on Tuesday 28th June 10:39
The UK has been the major belligerent force against European dictators for the last 200 years, it would have been far more advantageous for Putin for this to be nullified under an ineffective EU leadership with other members shirking their spend commitments. UVDL as chief of staff
even Russian tanks would stand up to broom handles.As for the putting the UK armed forces and nuclear deterrent under Brussels' control. No thanks, I want this under a democratically elected government.
Magnum 475 said:
In my case it will never be resolved. Those responsible for leave campaign will never be forgiven by people like me. I should explain:
1. My wife is European. My children's grandparents are European. We now have limits on how much time our kids can spend with their grandparents.
2. When the treaty of Lisbon was signed, I looked at what it actually meant. It meant lots and lots of opportunity for people who could be bothered to go and work all over Europe. So I did. And, being blunt, I made a seriously good amount of money by doing so. (You could say I went over there and nicked their jobs if you were so inclined). That's now been ended by people who didn't want to take the opportunities that the EU presented.
3. The structure of the leave campaign effectively supported and legitimised racism. Remember Farage's immigrant poster, and other similar messages? I have absolutely zero tolerance for racism in any form, yet we see it starting to build across the UK once again.
4. A large part of 'Vote Leave' was bankrolled by Russia, as it's in Russia's interests to weaken the EU and NATO. They're not doing that for fun, yet we blindly went along with their desires to weaken the EU. Thankfully Russia has largely failed in this area, as seen by the response to Ukraine. The EU is now down to a single Nuclear capable country, and let's face it, France is hardly known as a particularly effective military nation. Those who campaign against an EU military seem to have forgotten what's lurking just a few kilometres to the East.
The thread title asks 'How about another EU Referendum?' No. Absolutely not. We're out, and attempting to get back in would be a long and difficult, if not impossible, process. In all likelihood the EU wouldn't want us back anyway. Contrary to what BJ says, Brexit can't just be 'undone', 'reversed', or 'stolen'. We're a third country now as far as the EU is concerned, and we have to work on that basis.
But just to be clear: I loathe Brexit, and I loathe the people who orchestrated it and manipulated the masses into voting for it.
You're just repeating the same old tired arguments.1. My wife is European. My children's grandparents are European. We now have limits on how much time our kids can spend with their grandparents.
2. When the treaty of Lisbon was signed, I looked at what it actually meant. It meant lots and lots of opportunity for people who could be bothered to go and work all over Europe. So I did. And, being blunt, I made a seriously good amount of money by doing so. (You could say I went over there and nicked their jobs if you were so inclined). That's now been ended by people who didn't want to take the opportunities that the EU presented.
3. The structure of the leave campaign effectively supported and legitimised racism. Remember Farage's immigrant poster, and other similar messages? I have absolutely zero tolerance for racism in any form, yet we see it starting to build across the UK once again.
4. A large part of 'Vote Leave' was bankrolled by Russia, as it's in Russia's interests to weaken the EU and NATO. They're not doing that for fun, yet we blindly went along with their desires to weaken the EU. Thankfully Russia has largely failed in this area, as seen by the response to Ukraine. The EU is now down to a single Nuclear capable country, and let's face it, France is hardly known as a particularly effective military nation. Those who campaign against an EU military seem to have forgotten what's lurking just a few kilometres to the East.
The thread title asks 'How about another EU Referendum?' No. Absolutely not. We're out, and attempting to get back in would be a long and difficult, if not impossible, process. In all likelihood the EU wouldn't want us back anyway. Contrary to what BJ says, Brexit can't just be 'undone', 'reversed', or 'stolen'. We're a third country now as far as the EU is concerned, and we have to work on that basis.
But just to be clear: I loathe Brexit, and I loathe the people who orchestrated it and manipulated the masses into voting for it.
With familial ties, are you not able to sort paperwork to allow you extended stays? With all the cash you've made, surely that should be easy? (If one can be bothered).
You can still work abroad. Anywhere. IF you have enough to offer.
3 is just utter claptrap. I also have zero tolerance for racism. Sadly it's always been here. You just chose not to see it (probably too busy earning loads of cash abroad?).
On 4...so we should have stayed to give the EU military power? NATO does that job, and Russia aren't undermining NATO. I'd put a stronger argument forwards for suggesting current members who aren't holding up their end of the bargain are doing more on that front.
Concerned about Russia? Perhaps have a word with the member states who have made themselves dependent on Russian energy and are currently doing sweet FA about it (though hey, they've confiscated a few yachts).
Both campaigns were dire. But the Remain case should have been easy to make irrefutably. Before moaning that everyone was conned and racist, ask yourself why that wasn't possible. Properly ask yourself.
The politicians involved have summarily failed to make any sort of case for the overreach they are involved in. The project needed a kick in the nuts. It's had little taps before (let's have a constitution? No thanks...ok. Lisbon anyone), Brexit was harder. But there is zero learning being done. Only doubling down.
I love Europe. Love the diversity, the history, the culture and the people. But politicians the world over are w
kers, and the EU sort are the worst sort of parasites (you hate Farage... So surely you can agree on that 
). roger.mellie said:
TonyToniTone said:
I don't believe moving back to imperial is being considered.
I'll not bother linking but it is.The most amusing bit of it is the assumption that one rule for us is considered British culture by some.
You should bother yourself with looking back at these things Rog as you're getting as misty eyed as the other fanbois. Getting all pissy where there's no reason for it.
Did someone drop a 10lb weight on your big toe?
Clue : the change is to stop it being against the law not to show metric (why the f
k was it ever law? Because politicians need to prove their worth). It is NOT to make it law that thou shall only show measures in Imperial. There is a massive, massive (cwt) difference. toon10 said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
CharlesdeGaulle said:
Magnum 475 said:
In my case it will never be resolved. Those responsible for leave campaign will never be forgiven by people like me. I should explain:
1. My wife is European. My children's grandparents are European. We now have limits on how much time our kids can spend with their grandparents.
2. When the treaty of Lisbon was signed, I looked at what it actually meant. It meant lots and lots of opportunity for people who could be bothered to go and work all over Europe. So I did. And, being blunt, I made a seriously good amount of money by doing so. (You could say I went over there and nicked their jobs if you were so inclined). That's now been ended by people who didn't want to take the opportunities that the EU presented.
I agree with every word of that. Good post. 1. My wife is European. My children's grandparents are European. We now have limits on how much time our kids can spend with their grandparents.
2. When the treaty of Lisbon was signed, I looked at what it actually meant. It meant lots and lots of opportunity for people who could be bothered to go and work all over Europe. So I did. And, being blunt, I made a seriously good amount of money by doing so. (You could say I went over there and nicked their jobs if you were so inclined). That's now been ended by people who didn't want to take the opportunities that the EU presented.
If you and/or your children travel without your wife to a Schengen country you are subject to the 90/180 stay limit within the Schengen area. Note not all EU country's are in Schengen. Those countries have there own 90/180 day rule which do affect the 90/180 day Schengen day count.
If you and/or children travel with your wife to any EU country other than her country of citizenship the 90/180 day rule does not apply. If you intend to stay for more than 90 days you need to get a residency permit. This is not a big deal but will require health insurance. You will then be able to work.
If you and/or children travel to the EU country of her citizenship then you need to check local rules. They are typically similar but you must check.
If you do decide to move into the EU there are also a lot more things to sort out. Moving personal items and furniture need to be declared and to be VAT free needs to meet specific requirements. Moving items to a second home are subject to VAT. Moving pets is also a lot of fun.
I would suggest you look at getting your children a passport from your wife's county.
If you are planning to move the family into the EU then you must look at how your wife can ensure she can move back with you visa free.
Edited by Mrr T on Tuesday 28th June 12:20
Edited by Mrr T on Tuesday 28th June 12:23
Abdul Abulbul Amir said:
Exactly, I'm pretty sure travel to see grandparents to the EU is still allowed.
The UK has been the major belligerent force against European dictators for the last 200 years, it would have been far more advantageous for Putin for this to be nullified under an ineffective EU leadership with other members shirking their spend commitments. UVDL as chief of staff even Russian tanks would stand up to broom handles.
As for the putting the UK armed forces and nuclear deterrent under Brussels' control. No thanks, I want this under a democratically elected government.
Travel is allowed, however we now have the '90 days in every 180 days rule' about how much time we can spend in the EU, or EU citizens can spend in the UK. As our kids are in Independent school and have significantly more holiday than those in state school, this is creating problems that didn't exist before. The UK has been the major belligerent force against European dictators for the last 200 years, it would have been far more advantageous for Putin for this to be nullified under an ineffective EU leadership with other members shirking their spend commitments. UVDL as chief of staff
even Russian tanks would stand up to broom handles.As for the putting the UK armed forces and nuclear deterrent under Brussels' control. No thanks, I want this under a democratically elected government.
The EU military is an interesting point though. As Putin becomes more aggressive, a united EU military would be advantageous as part of a large deterrent. However, NATO seems to be doing a reasonable job of bolstering Ukraine for the moment. Anyone who thinks Putin's ambitions stop at a small part of Ukraine is deluded - his ultimate ambition is to retake pretty much everything that formed the USSR.
I find your comment about a "democratically elected government" vaguely amusing though
. Almost as if the European parliament isn't democratically elected. Let's face it, the EU governance is every bit as democratic as the UK's governance system, except for one tiny detail. In the EU, there is no non-elected House of Lords - the elected members have the final say. Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff