Barristers strike over pay
Discussion
b
hstewie said:
hstewie said: I'm surprised this can be allowed to happen as a consequence.
Woman charged with perverting course of justice told to represent herself in legal first
It would seem to be grounds for appeal of she is found guilty, if she knows how to submit an appeal. The wages for new criminal barristers are shockingly low, justice only seems to be available for the very rich, not exactly leveling up is it? Woman charged with perverting course of justice told to represent herself in legal first
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: I'm surprised this can be allowed to happen as a consequence.
Woman charged with perverting course of justice told to represent herself in legal first
This is absolutely awful. Woman charged with perverting course of justice told to represent herself in legal first
Those who do not spend enough time thinking before forming an opinion might take the view that this is acceptable.
In this example, this woman would have a very good case to appeal if she is found guilty, and possibly, so too would the Crown if she were found not-guilty.
More expense and cost for the tax payer.
Ensuring that guilt is properly found in trial is essential. It is better that someone guilty is allowed to go free, than to imprison an innocent and the guilty still walk free (with little prospect of facing prosecution, because someone has already been found guilty in their place).
We must have a properly funded legal system.
CrgT16 said:
How is the median income for juniors £12200?
Can you explain/expand on that?
I highly recommend reading The Secret Barrister, it's really eye-opening: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Secret-Barrister-Stories-...Can you explain/expand on that?
CrgT16 said:
How is the median income for juniors £12200?
Can you explain/expand on that?
The full answer is somewhat complex, but at heart is the way that Barristers are self-employed but work in chambers that charge them fees for the work they pass their way, amongst other charges that eat away at your income. Particularly at the start of your career, you are unlikely to be working high-profile cases with deep-pocketed clients, and the fees you can charge are rather limited. Plus if you are in the field of criminal law then you are likely to be doing a significant amount of legal aid work, which has been underfunded for years and is now at the point where, averaged over the number of out-of-court hours you need to work to prepare for cases, you will often be working for less than minimum wage.Can you explain/expand on that?
It genuinely is a national disgrace that's been bubbling for years but because of the typical newspaper reporting on fat-cat barristers earning hundreds of thousands people don't realise just how poorly paid many of them are.
Pixelpeep 135 said:
thebraketester said:
GetCarter said:
Just so we all know the facts:
Training to be a criminal barrister: 5 years.
Cost of bar course: c.£13,000
Median annual income for juniors in first 3 years:
£12,200
Dreadful. Training to be a criminal barrister: 5 years.
Cost of bar course: c.£13,000
Median annual income for juniors in first 3 years:
£12,200
CrgT16 said:
How is the median income for juniors £12200?
Can you explain/expand on that?
Posting a bond. I.e. working for very little in order to earn more later.Can you explain/expand on that?
Which in the case of criminal barristers is not that great allegedly, because they are only paid for so many hours per job and it doesn't cover the cost of preparation, travel etc.
As posted a couple of times already, I highly recommend reading The Secret Barrister's first book-it's a real insight and eye opener into how important the legal aid system is, and how easily a middle income person can fall into the gap between LA and being able to pay for their own legal bill if accused of a criminal offence.
Evanivitch said:
Pixelpeep 135 said:
Car sales with vauxhall - £6,000 basic
I'm assuming that's an apprenticeship salary because otherwise it's illegal.Junior barristers given their education and investment in their qualifications are hardly the same.
Evanivitch said:
I'm assuming that's an apprenticeship salary because otherwise it's illegal.
Junior barristers given their education and investment in their qualifications are hardly the same.
Illegal depends on how many hours- for an hour a week it's quite generous. OTOH that salary might possibly be plus commission.Junior barristers given their education and investment in their qualifications are hardly the same.
ZedLeg said:
Evanivitch said:
Pixelpeep 135 said:
Car sales with vauxhall - £6,000 basic
I'm assuming that's an apprenticeship salary because otherwise it's illegal.Junior barristers given their education and investment in their qualifications are hardly the same.
deckster said:
The full answer is somewhat complex, but at heart is the way that Barristers are self-employed but work in chambers that charge them fees for the work they pass their way, amongst other charges that eat away at your income. Particularly at the start of your career, you are unlikely to be working high-profile cases with deep-pocketed clients, and the fees you can charge are rather limited. Plus if you are in the field of criminal law then you are likely to be doing a significant amount of legal aid work, which has been underfunded for years and is now at the point where, averaged over the number of out-of-court hours you need to work to prepare for cases, you will often be working for less than minimum wage.
It genuinely is a national disgrace that's been bubbling for years but because of the typical newspaper reporting on fat-cat barristers earning hundreds of thousands people don't realise just how poorly paid many of them are.
So for clarity, does this mean that experienced and relatively well paid lawyers who have already gone through what you describe then do the same to new starters, knowing how hard it was for themselves?It genuinely is a national disgrace that's been bubbling for years but because of the typical newspaper reporting on fat-cat barristers earning hundreds of thousands people don't realise just how poorly paid many of them are.
If so how can they morally defend that (especially without LA!) ? Surely they could employ them instead of taking advantage of them like vultures? Or is there something in place to stop that?
If it’s as bad as you describe I imagine fewer and fewer people will chose Law as a career, do you know if that’s actually happening? Genuine questions no criticism or sarcasm.
Edited to add a quick Google showed a ratio of 28:1 graduates for every vacancy in 2019, no idea if it’s changed since then.
Also in 2019 20,905 students were accepted onto the course (14,520 are female and 6,370 are male).
Pay reported here https://www.thelawyerportal.com/careers/deciding-o... was:
Edited by steveatesh on Monday 27th June 15:59
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