Rishi Sunak - Prime Minister

[Mr Penguin]

Randy Winkman said:

I never understand the point of "appealing to the base". Surely the people that politicians need to impress are the undecided?

The biggest risk to elections is the base not turning up, which means the best strategy is usually to appease the base as much as possible to motivate them to come out while not looking threatening to the other side to make them less keen to vote against you.

[smn159]

Mr Penguin said:

Randy Winkman said:

I never understand the point of "appealing to the base". Surely the people that politicians need to impress are the undecided?

The biggest risk to elections is the base not turning up, which means the best strategy is usually to appease the base as much as possible to motivate them to come out while not looking threatening to the other side to make them less keen to vote against you.

It's damage limitation - they know that they can't win and so are competing with Reform for the loon vote

[Mr Penguin]

crankedup5 said:

You can’t get any support for mental health issues, see a GP,if you can get an appointment, and you will very likely end up with anti depressants medication. Counselling services and such like are almost non existent. From the reported numbers of people currently experiencing mental health issues and the lack of professional help available to these people it’s obvious what the outcomes usually are.

You can hire one privately - the cheapest I found on this search was £35 a session.

https://www.bacp.co.uk/search/Therapists?UserLocat...

[President Merkin]

ChocolateFrog said:

Campbell was suggesting that because the Tories have got literally nothing to go into the election with they're going for the negative in the hope that total voter despondency will help them.

Unlike 97 there is a total lack of optimism.

I don't think he's wrong either. I just hope it fails miserably for them.

It's punching down, just as they have always done. For once, Coolhands had it right & I don't say that lightly. Reflexively they singlev out the weakest, most vulnerable in society while consistently lookng the other way at their friends.. I understand why the aristocracy vote Conservative & to an extent, the upper middle classes.Everyone else though, no idea, they clearly despise you. Serf culture.

[bitchstewie]

The "serf culture" thing has been one of the most interesting elements of the past few years for me.

It doesn't matter how appallingly they acted or who they targeted there was alway an eager little queue of boot lickers on here only too keen to cheer them on.

Still haven't worked out if it's an ideology thing or if they genuinely see this lot as their betters or a bit of both but I still can't get my head around it.

[valiant]

Mr Penguin said:

crankedup5 said:

You can’t get any support for mental health issues, see a GP,if you can get an appointment, and you will very likely end up with anti depressants medication. Counselling services and such like are almost non existent. From the reported numbers of people currently experiencing mental health issues and the lack of professional help available to these people it’s obvious what the outcomes usually are.

You can hire one privately - the cheapest I found on this search was £35 a session.

https://www.bacp.co.uk/search/Therapists?UserLocat...

All very well if you can afford it.

Those ‘on the sick’ and claiming benefits with mental health issues may very well find it difficult to pay. Therapy can take years. That’s a serious drain on anyone’s finances let alone those without much to begin with.

[borcy]

bhstewie said:

The "serf culture" thing has been one of the most interesting elements of the past few years for me.

It doesn't matter how appallingly they acted or who they targeted there was alway an eager little queue of boot lickers on here only too keen to cheer them on.

Still haven't worked out if it's an ideology thing or if they genuinely see this lot as their betters or a bit of both but I still can't get my head around it.

I think ideology, but perhaps that's too strong a word. Lots of people don't care that other people make money or even how they do so. It's not important, most of the time.

Their ideas line up, that's it.

It's a bit like the nigal farage popularity, some might point his pint in hand routine and say its just an act he's wealthly really. But of course people know this they aren't bothered.

Even better if the parties/groups that hate them also have positions/policies that this particular group of voters dislike.

[Mr Penguin]

valiant said:

All very well if you can afford it.

Those ‘on the sick’ and claiming benefits with mental health issues may very well find it difficult to pay. Therapy can take years. That’s a serious drain on anyone’s finances let alone those without much to begin with.

It is, but most of us do the same with dentists and opticians. I would say that £35 a month probably isn't a big expense for most people, those with more serious issues who need many more sessions might start to struggle.

[valiant]

Mr Penguin said:

valiant said:

All very well if you can afford it.

Those ‘on the sick’ and claiming benefits with mental health issues may very well find it difficult to pay. Therapy can take years. That’s a serious drain on anyone’s finances let alone those without much to begin with.

It is, but most of us do the same with dentists and opticians. I would say that £35 a month probably isn't a big expense for most people, those with more serious issues who need many more sessions might start to struggle.

Thing is, is if you are unable to work due to poor mental health then you’ll be needing serious professional intervention to get you back into a position where work becomes a possibility and even then it may not be possible. It will take a damn sight more than a monthly session for anything other than the simplistic cases where the patient is already in work. Mental health treatment can be very intense and can take years if it ever ends at all. A half hour on a couch once a month simply doesn’t cut it.

Also bear in mind that the government’s proposal is to get people off benefits and into work. These people may not have £35 for a monthly session especially during a cost of living crisis where the choice can be between heat or food. It’s all good if you are employed and earning a fair wage to say that, it’s not really fair if you have the square root of fk all to begin with.

[Electro1980]

Mr Penguin said:

valiant said:

All very well if you can afford it.

Those ‘on the sick’ and claiming benefits with mental health issues may very well find it difficult to pay. Therapy can take years. That’s a serious drain on anyone’s finances let alone those without much to begin with.

It is, but most of us do the same with dentists and opticians. I would say that £35 a month probably isn't a big expense for most people, those with more serious issues who need many more sessions might start to struggle.

£35 a month? Try twice that, and weekly, for serious support. Anyone can call themselves a therapist. A clinical psychologist is going to cost at last £70 per session, and monthly is not often enough for someone who’s struggling. Maybe once symptoms have settled, but not until a way down the line. I have been there myself, struggled with anxiety and depression, and mine was never enough to take me off work for any extended period. After getting nowhere with the NHS I saw someone privately, £80/h, and it was weekly for the first 6 or so months until I got a handle on it. I’m lucky that I can afford it, but even then it has come at a cost, in that my family have missed out on holidays for the last few years, despite me earning twice the average wage.

Edited by Electro1980 on Saturday 20th April 19:41

[bitchstewie]

Exactly.

And that's before the tiny little question of where the money is supposed to come from if you're unemployed.

[Carl_VivaEspana]

Mr Penguin said:

valiant said:

All very well if you can afford it.

Those ‘on the sick’ and claiming benefits with mental health issues may very well find it difficult to pay. Therapy can take years. That’s a serious drain on anyone’s finances let alone those without much to begin with.

It is, but most of us do the same with dentists and opticians. I would say that £35 a month probably isn't a big expense for most people, those with more serious issues who need many more sessions might start to struggle.

It's a bit late for this government but ideologically, the split should be Left: It's the governments problem the Right: It's your problem with the Dems in the middle somewhere.

The policies and the votes therefore should be split as thus.

[hidetheelephants]

Only for weirdos; aside from batsttery from the likes of Truss the tory party still support healthcare free at point of delivery, unless I missed a prime ministerial press conference. They're fking useless at delivering it right enough though.

[blueg33]

Mr Penguin said:

crankedup5 said:

You can’t get any support for mental health issues, see a GP,if you can get an appointment, and you will very likely end up with anti depressants medication. Counselling services and such like are almost non existent. From the reported numbers of people currently experiencing mental health issues and the lack of professional help available to these people it’s obvious what the outcomes usually are.

You can hire one privately - the cheapest I found on this search was £35 a session.

https://www.bacp.co.uk/search/Therapists?UserLocat...

£50 per session minimum in the place where our friend lives. Needs a weekly session, thats £200 per month. Against job seekers allowance of £360.

[Mr Penguin]

blueg33 said:

£50 per session minimum in the place where our friend lives. Needs a weekly session, thats £200 per month. Against job seekers allowance of £360.

Most people have a phone or laptop and can do it remotely, but I just calculated benefits for where I live (Lincs) and it said £400 standard allowance, £350 housing benefit, £90 income tax (band A), discounted water bills, plus disability allowance (£73 or £109), so upto £950. I suppose if you live with your parents then its £500 a month with no direct bills.

Still, a session a month is better than no sessions at all.

[valiant]

Your insight into mental care is somewhat lacking.

[Mr Penguin]

valiant said:

Your insight into mental care is somewhat lacking.

What am I missing?

[blueg33]

Mr Penguin said:

blueg33 said:

£50 per session minimum in the place where our friend lives. Needs a weekly session, thats £200 per month. Against job seekers allowance of £360.

Most people have a phone or laptop and can do it remotely, but I just calculated benefits for where I live (Lincs) and it said £400 standard allowance, £350 housing benefit, £90 income tax (band A), discounted water bills, plus disability allowance (£73 or £109), so upto £950. I suppose if you live with your parents then its £500 a month with no direct bills.

Still, a session a month is better than no sessions at all.

Remote sessions do not work very well. If you live with parents it’s £83 per week. That’s what my daughter gets. She has Asperger’s, dyspraxia, anxiety and depression.

What’s your experience of mental health and benefits?

[Mr Penguin]

blueg33 said:

Remote sessions do not work very well. If you live with parents it’s £83 per week. That’s what my daughter gets. She has Asperger’s, dyspraxia, anxiety and depression.

What’s your experience of mental health and benefits?

None first hand, but I have a good friend with severe bipolar (he's never been without a job though so never been eligible for JSA). If they live with parents, many families can contribute to the costs. People do still have agency to do things for themselves even if the government won't do it for them. I simply don't believe that nobody who needs treatment can do anything other than wait for the ever growing waiting list to go down.

[blueg33]

Mr Penguin said:

blueg33 said:

Remote sessions do not work very well. If you live with parents it’s £83 per week. That’s what my daughter gets. She has Asperger’s, dyspraxia, anxiety and depression.

What’s your experience of mental health and benefits?

None first hand, but I have a good friend with severe bipolar (he's never been without a job though so never been eligible for JSA). If they live with parents, many families can contribute to the costs. People do still have agency to do things for themselves even if the government won't do it for them. I simply don't believe that nobody who needs treatment can do anything other than wait for the ever growing waiting list to go down.

I have worked extensively providing housing for people with physical and neuro disabilities. You are way too blasé. Access to suitable support is very nearly unobtainable particularly on low incomes. You can’t just cite a few practitioner’s on a website either as for many cases you need a particular specialist just as you do for physical illness. You wouldn’t send someone with cancer to a joint specialist. Mental health needs to be taken as seriously as physical health. Our politicians are quite happy to say someone with cancer or a broken leg should be treated free of charge but you think that people with equally serious mental health issues should pay for themselves. The comparison up the thread with dentists and opticians is puerile and an absolute demonstration of not having a clue.

You have belief- others have facts, hands on experience. The expert and facts trump any belief system.