Nurses, Rail Staff and Now Driving Examiners

[S600BSB]

Vasco said:

valiant said:

Vasco said:

Because the claim from the Union was unrealistic ? Many people felt it was OTT (even if it could be justified) and strikes haven't done much overall to help staff.
Not sure £25 pm union subs is good value.

And many said that it’s a negotiation. Had the unions gone in at 6%, do you think they’d have got 5? The lowest banded workers will get over 10% plus all staff get a one off ‘bonus’ (for want of a better word) which wasn’t previously on the table. That’s a win for the lowest paid.

If it helps retention then how is that not helping existing staff and the nhs in general? They’ve got an extra 1.5% over the initial offer which will be compounded as years go by and will outstrip what was lost on strikes.

Not sure why you raise the issue of staff retention, I never mentioned it.

Probably ecause it is an absolutely key issue with 150,000 vacancies in the NHS in England!

[sawman]

I'd be surprised if this offer is accepted by the members

It isn't really significant enough to improve the retention issue, unless there is something spectacular in the proposed nurses pay spine. Of course if there is, the non nursing agenda for change staff may feel they want a slice of that pie.....

[S600BSB]

sawman said:

I'd be surprised if this offer is accepted by the members

It isn't really significant enough to improve the retention issue, unless there is something spectacular in the proposed nurses pay spine. Of course if there is, the non nursing agenda for change staff may feel they want a slice of that pie.....

It will be accepted. RCN strike mandate about to expire and there are real doubts whether it would be renewed if put to a further ballot. Time to settle.

[sawman]

S600BSB said:

It will be accepted. RCN strike mandate about to expire and there are real doubts whether it would be renewed if put to a further ballot. Time to settle.

well judging by the comments on our trust facebook page, the members seem to be saying nay, maybe is depends on who you talk to and what spin the RCN (and other unions) put on it

[CoolHands]

The active ones will be saying nay but there’s a large amount of quiet people that won’t say much and accept what they’re given. Not much backbone.

[Vasco]

sawman said:

I'd be surprised if this offer is accepted by the members

It isn't really significant enough to improve the retention issue, unless there is something spectacular in the proposed nurses pay spine. Of course if there is, the non nursing agenda for change staff may feel they want a slice of that pie.....

You're going to be surprised.

[sawman]

Vasco said:

You're going to be surprised.

Maybe, as coolhands says the naysayers will shout loudest. The gripe seems to be “we only get 5 when scots get 7% plus they were paid more to start with. Actually looking at the numbers i suspect the english deal is worth a bit more as the lump is bigger.

However i still think the retention issue will not be solved with this

[K77 CTR]

Can I ask what may be a really stupid question? I'm a nurse and looking at the pay offer. The lump sum for last year apparently equates to 4.8% of last years pay. The 5% payrise is based on last year's pay. Does that effectively mean the payrise of 5% has been implemented last year and no payrise this year?

This might be a really odd way of looking at it

[poo at Paul's]

K77 CTR said:

Can I ask what may be a really stupid question? I'm a nurse and looking at the pay offer. The lump sum for last year apparently equates to 4.8% of last years pay. The 5% payrise is based on last year's pay. Does that effectively mean the payrise of 5% has been implemented last year and no payrise this year?

This might be a really odd way of looking at it

5% this year, but it nearly all backdated a year (4.8%) of it to start of last year as a lump sum? Is that the way to look at it?

[K77 CTR]

poo at Paul's said:

5% this year, but it nearly all backdated a year (4.8%) of it to start of last year as a lump sum? Is that the way to look at it?

Does it not devalue the payrise though or am I being a typical female and overthinking things?

[Vanden Saab]

K77 CTR said:

Can I ask what may be a really stupid question? I'm a nurse and looking at the pay offer. The lump sum for last year apparently equates to 4.8% of last years pay. The 5% payrise is based on last year's pay. Does that effectively mean the payrise of 5% has been implemented last year and no payrise this year?

This might be a really odd way of looking at it

Your pay award for last year was at least 4%. You are getting another 2% minimum on top of that for last year So a minimum of 5.5% for last year. In addition you will get a backlog bonus of at least £1250. For 2023-2024 you will get a 5% increase on top of the 5.5% you got last year. These are the least you will get, If you are in a lower band you will get even more.
Detail is here...
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-and-...

Not a nurse but my other half is, and asked me to work it out for her. 10% over 2 years plus the one off bonus is the least you will get...

[K77 CTR]

Vanden Saab said:

Your pay award for last year was at least 4%. You are getting another 2% minimum on top of that for last year So a minimum of 5.5% for last year. In addition you will get a backlog bonus of at least £1250. For 2023-2024 you will get a 5% increase on top of the 5.5% you got last year. These are the least you will get, If you are in a lower band you will get even more.
Detail is here...
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-and-...

Not a nurse but my other half is, and asked me to work it out for her. 10% over 2 years plus the one off bonus is the least you will get...

Thank you, I'd forgotten there had already been a pay award last year. The only bit I don't understand is where you say about getting 5% on top of the 5.5% from last year. Any backdated pay for last year is non-consolidated and does not count towards future earnings (according to the link RCN provided). I understand that the 5% is on top of my pay from last year without any of the new awards?

RCN link https://www.nhsemployers.org/articles/government-a...

[Vanden Saab]

K77 CTR said:

Vanden Saab said:

Your pay award for last year was at least 4%. You are getting another 2% minimum on top of that for last year So a minimum of 5.5% for last year. In addition you will get a backlog bonus of at least £1250. For 2023-2024 you will get a 5% increase on top of the 5.5% you got last year. These are the least you will get, If you are in a lower band you will get even more.
Detail is here...
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-and-...

Not a nurse but my other half is, and asked me to work it out for her. 10% over 2 years plus the one off bonus is the least you will get...

Thank you, I'd forgotten there had already been a pay award last year. The only bit I don't understand is where you say about getting 5% on top of the 5.5% from last year. Any backdated pay for last year is non-consolidated and does not count towards future earnings (according to the link RCN provided). I understand that the 5% is on top of my pay from last year without any of the new awards?

RCN link https://www.nhsemployers.org/articles/government-a...

Ah, yes forgot the 2% was non-consolidated although it does not make a huge difference, so the 4% from last year and 5% for this year plus the 2% and the backlog bonus as a one off payment. MrsVS is top of band 5 so her pay has gone from £31,534 in 21-22 to £32,934 in 22-23 and to £34,581 in 23-24 so if my maths is correct at this time of night that is a 9.6% rise...not far off my 10% I quoted. In addition the one off payment will be £2,009. These numbers may be different depending on your band.

[sawman]

K77 CTR said:

Thank you, I'd forgotten there had already been a pay award last year. The only bit I don't understand is where you say about getting 5% on top of the 5.5% from last year. Any backdated pay for last year is non-consolidated and does not count towards future earnings (according to the link RCN provided). I understand that the 5% is on top of my pay from last year without any of the new awards?

RCN link https://www.nhsemployers.org/articles/government-a...

The rise for 23/24 is related to the current 22/23 salary. The lump sum in non consolidated and so your overall earning for 22/23 will be as published in the 22/23 payround (ie there was a 1400 rise across the board apart from some b7 who got a bit more) with the addition of the latest bung. For 23/24 you will get 22/23 rates plus 5ish%. As the bung is non consolidated this devalues the rise in 23/24 by whatever percent your particular lump sum is. So it might be 5%next year but you might only have 2% increase over this years earnings.

[K77 CTR]

sawman said:

The rise for 23/24 is related to the current 22/23 salary. The lump sum in non consolidated and so your overall earning for 22/23 will be as published in the 22/23 payround (ie there was a 1400 rise across the board apart from some b7 who got a bit more) with the addition of the latest bung. For 23/24 you will get 22/23 rates plus 5ish%. As the bung is non consolidated this devalues the rise in 23/24 by whatever percent your particular lump sum is. So it might be 5%next year but you might only have 2% increase over this years earnings.

Thank you, that's how I understood it. Doesn't seem so good when thought of like that

[sawman]

K77 CTR said:

Thank you, that's how I understood it. Doesn't seem so good when thought of like that

I didnt think it looked too bad at first sight, but actually i am surprised that the rcn even thought it was worth putting in front of their members ( and by default all other afc groups)
Turns out pat cullen wasnt a tough as she said, although to be fair when she took the rcn chief job she probably didnt expect to find her self involved in industrial action - probably thought it would be a nice quiet office job.

In a couple of years we will be back here again i would expect

Edited by sawman on Thursday 23 March 07:22

[JagLover]

sawman said:

I didnt think it looked too bad at first sight, but actually i am surprised that the rcn even thought it was worth putting in front of their members ( and by default all other afc groups)
Turns out pat cullen wasnt a tough as she said, although to be fair when she took the rcn chief job she probably didnt expect to find her self involved in industrial action - probably thought it would be a nice quiet office job.

I don't work for the government or a government agency, but in my new job we have a similar set-up with pay bands and negotiated percentage pay rises by band. Anyhow apparently the union (which I wasn't aware existed) has negotiated a 3.5% pay rise for my band next year.

No strikes, or standing around braziers, apparently 3.5% is all we are getting, so I am not sure that 5% plus a bonus for last year is all that poor a deal in comparison. Who is getting pay rises matching inflation?

[sawman]

JagLover said:

I don't work for the government or a government agency, but in my new job we have a similar set-up with pay bands and negotiated percentage pay rises by band. Anyhow apparently the union (which I wasn't aware existed) has negotiated a 3.5% pay rise for my band next year.

No strikes, or standing around braziers, apparently 3.5% is all we are getting, so I am not sure that 5% plus a bonus for last year is all that poor a deal in comparison. Who is getting pay rises matching inflation?

The real issue behind this dispute is not this year pay, its whats happened to pay over the last 12 years or so and the issue that has created with retention of staff.
This settlement will not resolve that.
The junior docs have a similar issue, steve barclay is still not attending meetings that he has agreed to. I suspect the BMA will have a steelier resolve than pat.

[ChocolateFrog]

If the union recommends that a deal is accepted it will be accepted.

Less of a pay cut than they were going to get I suppose.

[Gareth1974]

JagLover said:

No strikes, or standing around braziers, apparently 3.5% is all we are getting, so I am not sure that 5% plus a bonus for last year is all that poor a deal in comparison. Who is getting pay rises matching inflation?

Anecdotally I know of people who’ve have double digit pay rises recently (my girlfriend for one), and with private sector average pay rises being at around 7%, there must be some getting inflation matching rises.

I suspect there is a link between workers who have been prepared to strike and stand around braziers getting higher rises than those who aren’t prepared to take action.