Nurses, Rail Staff and Now Driving Examiners
Discussion
mattyprice4004 said:
pequod said:
Super Sonic said:
It's not only the unions that are bringing the government down, it's the Europhiles.
EFA
£374M a week extra was signed off within Hammond's budget.
Then another increase was signed off in Sunak's budget.
Then even more was signed off as part of the CV-19 response.
Edited by page3 on Wednesday 30th November 07:21
PurplePangolin said:
Tobermory said:
I think that people in the public sector are fed up seeing their pay fall behind when times are good and private sector wages increase ahead of inflation, bolstered by employee share schemes etc yet when things are not so rosy they have to share the pain.
Also how many nurses were furloughed? The pay review body is far from independent, and with an essentially monopolistic employer it’s a dysfunctional negotiation.
The thing is, with vacancies so high the shoe is on the other foot, and having finally voted to strike a line has been crossed. The relationship has probably been changed permanently now. Well done government! Talk of legislation to ban key workers striking and of vocation just tubs salt in the wound.
Remember the 15% rise in barristers public fees a curved by striking? Why wouldn’t the nurses (and other key workers) expect similar? The country can of course afford it, it’s just a question of priorities.
With regard to your last sentence, please show your workings. What would be of a lesser priority?Also how many nurses were furloughed? The pay review body is far from independent, and with an essentially monopolistic employer it’s a dysfunctional negotiation.
The thing is, with vacancies so high the shoe is on the other foot, and having finally voted to strike a line has been crossed. The relationship has probably been changed permanently now. Well done government! Talk of legislation to ban key workers striking and of vocation just tubs salt in the wound.
Remember the 15% rise in barristers public fees a curved by striking? Why wouldn’t the nurses (and other key workers) expect similar? The country can of course afford it, it’s just a question of priorities.
Utility company windfall profits
Maintaining a ludicrously hard line on Europe in the face of overwhelming evidence of the economic damage for fear of upsetting the ERG/ admitting you were wrong ( and while you’re at maybe tell the largely Brexit supporting older voters ‘sorry the effect of the Brexit you wanted on the economy and the supply of European recruits means we have to choose between pensions and nurses and nurses get it?)
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 30th November 07:28
Tobermory said:
PurplePangolin said:
Tobermory said:
I think that people in the public sector are fed up seeing their pay fall behind when times are good and private sector wages increase ahead of inflation, bolstered by employee share schemes etc yet when things are not so rosy they have to share the pain.
Also how many nurses were furloughed? The pay review body is far from independent, and with an essentially monopolistic employer it’s a dysfunctional negotiation.
The thing is, with vacancies so high the shoe is on the other foot, and having finally voted to strike a line has been crossed. The relationship has probably been changed permanently now. Well done government! Talk of legislation to ban key workers striking and of vocation just tubs salt in the wound.
Remember the 15% rise in barristers public fees a curved by striking? Why wouldn’t the nurses (and other key workers) expect similar? The country can of course afford it, it’s just a question of priorities.
With regard to your last sentence, please show your workings. What would be of a lesser priority?Also how many nurses were furloughed? The pay review body is far from independent, and with an essentially monopolistic employer it’s a dysfunctional negotiation.
The thing is, with vacancies so high the shoe is on the other foot, and having finally voted to strike a line has been crossed. The relationship has probably been changed permanently now. Well done government! Talk of legislation to ban key workers striking and of vocation just tubs salt in the wound.
Remember the 15% rise in barristers public fees a curved by striking? Why wouldn’t the nurses (and other key workers) expect similar? The country can of course afford it, it’s just a question of priorities.
Utility company windfall profits
Maintaining a ludicrously hard line on Europe in the face of overwhelming evidence of the economic damage for fear of upsetting the ERG/ admitting you were wrong
Perhaps we shouldn’t have pissed so much money away on a poorly thought out covid response - that money would have paid for the nurses pay increase.
PurplePangolin said:
How much money will that free up?
Perhaps we shouldn’t have pissed so much money away on a poorly thought out covid response - that money would have paid for the nurses pay increase.
As a country we have made ourselves far poorer with a combination of energy policy (long term) and lockdown (short term). The government can no longer afford to cushion the population from the consequences of its own policy failures as it is under severe fiscal pressure and needs to reassure the markets. Hence the population is now confronting the consequences of policies which many of them supported, in the form of falling real wages. Perhaps we shouldn’t have pissed so much money away on a poorly thought out covid response - that money would have paid for the nurses pay increase.
Strikes will not really alter this fundamental situation and the next Labour government will have the same issues.
Tobermory said:
PurplePangolin said:
Tobermory said:
I think that people in the public sector are fed up seeing their pay fall behind when times are good and private sector wages increase ahead of inflation, bolstered by employee share schemes etc yet when things are not so rosy they have to share the pain.
Also how many nurses were furloughed? The pay review body is far from independent, and with an essentially monopolistic employer it’s a dysfunctional negotiation.
The thing is, with vacancies so high the shoe is on the other foot, and having finally voted to strike a line has been crossed. The relationship has probably been changed permanently now. Well done government! Talk of legislation to ban key workers striking and of vocation just tubs salt in the wound.
Remember the 15% rise in barristers public fees a curved by striking? Why wouldn’t the nurses (and other key workers) expect similar? The country can of course afford it, it’s just a question of priorities.
With regard to your last sentence, please show your workings. What would be of a lesser priority?Also how many nurses were furloughed? The pay review body is far from independent, and with an essentially monopolistic employer it’s a dysfunctional negotiation.
The thing is, with vacancies so high the shoe is on the other foot, and having finally voted to strike a line has been crossed. The relationship has probably been changed permanently now. Well done government! Talk of legislation to ban key workers striking and of vocation just tubs salt in the wound.
Remember the 15% rise in barristers public fees a curved by striking? Why wouldn’t the nurses (and other key workers) expect similar? The country can of course afford it, it’s just a question of priorities.
Utility company windfall profits
Maintaining a ludicrously hard line on Europe in the face of overwhelming evidence of the economic damage for fear of upsetting the ERG/ admitting you were wrong ( and while you’re at maybe tell the largely Brexit supporting older voters ‘sorry the effect of the Brexit you wanted on the economy and the supply of European recruits means we have to choose between pensions and nurses and nurses get it?)
Edited by Tobermory on Wednesday 30th November 07:28
Vasco said:
What 'hard line on Europe' ??
Seeking a (now more or less openly admitted) economically damaging Brexit for political ends (taking back control)PurplePangolin said:
How much money will that free up?
Perhaps we shouldn’t have pissed so much money away on a poorly thought out covid response - that money would have paid for the nurses pay increase.
Nurses did not vote for the COVID response (irrespective of whether you think it was the right one) and they bore a heavy burden during covid yet while pensioners are protected they should pay the price, really?Perhaps we shouldn’t have pissed so much money away on a poorly thought out covid response - that money would have paid for the nurses pay increase.
Tobermory said:
Vasco said:
What 'hard line on Europe' ??
Seeking a (now more or less openly admitted) economically damaging Brexit for political ends (taking back control)PurplePangolin said:
How much money will that free up?
Perhaps we shouldn’t have pissed so much money away on a poorly thought out covid response - that money would have paid for the nurses pay increase.
Nurses did not vote for the COVID response (irrespective of whether you think it was the right one) and they bore a heavy burden during covid yet while pensioners are protected they should pay the price, really?Perhaps we shouldn’t have pissed so much money away on a poorly thought out covid response - that money would have paid for the nurses pay increase.
Tobermory said:
I think that people in the public sector are fed up seeing their pay fall behind when times are good and private sector wages increase ahead of inflation, bolstered by employee share schemes etc yet when things are not so rosy they have to share the pain.
Also how many nurses were furloughed? The pay review body is far from independent, and with an essentially monopolistic employer it’s a dysfunctional negotiation.
The thing is, with vacancies so high the shoe is on the other foot, and having finally voted to strike a line has been crossed. The relationship has probably been changed permanently now. Well done government! Talk of legislation to ban key workers striking and of vocation just tubs salt in the wound.
Remember the 15% rise in barristers public fees a curved by striking? Why wouldn’t the nurses (and other key workers) expect similar? The country can of course afford it, it’s just a question of priorities.
What sort of dream world are you living in???Also how many nurses were furloughed? The pay review body is far from independent, and with an essentially monopolistic employer it’s a dysfunctional negotiation.
The thing is, with vacancies so high the shoe is on the other foot, and having finally voted to strike a line has been crossed. The relationship has probably been changed permanently now. Well done government! Talk of legislation to ban key workers striking and of vocation just tubs salt in the wound.
Remember the 15% rise in barristers public fees a curved by striking? Why wouldn’t the nurses (and other key workers) expect similar? The country can of course afford it, it’s just a question of priorities.
Private sector pay outstripping inflation?!? In the Eighties, maybe!
As for "the country can afford it" in relation to NHS wages, quite simply
There are around 2,500 legal aid barristers in the UK. By contrast, there are over a million employees in the NHS, and that doesn't include those who work in GP surgeries!
To put that another way, that's roughly 1 in every 30 people paying income tax in the UK, and you think the country can afford to give them all their 15% payrise? How??? Where is the money coming from??? Like most people in the private sector, I've had bugger all for the past couple of years other than "if you think you can earn more elsewhere, we would regrettably understand and accept your resignation" but you think I've got a load of spare cash down the back of the sofa with which to pay more tax to fund salary increases for a million people in the NHS??? Have I f
k! The greedy fkers just need a reality check before they alienate the entire country.Kermit power said:
Tobermory said:
I think that people in the public sector are fed up seeing their pay fall behind when times are good and private sector wages increase ahead of inflation, bolstered by employee share schemes etc yet when things are not so rosy they have to share the pain.
Also how many nurses were furloughed? The pay review body is far from independent, and with an essentially monopolistic employer it’s a dysfunctional negotiation.
The thing is, with vacancies so high the shoe is on the other foot, and having finally voted to strike a line has been crossed. The relationship has probably been changed permanently now. Well done government! Talk of legislation to ban key workers striking and of vocation just tubs salt in the wound.
Remember the 15% rise in barristers public fees a curved by striking? Why wouldn’t the nurses (and other key workers) expect similar? The country can of course afford it, it’s just a question of priorities.
What sort of dream world are you living in???Also how many nurses were furloughed? The pay review body is far from independent, and with an essentially monopolistic employer it’s a dysfunctional negotiation.
The thing is, with vacancies so high the shoe is on the other foot, and having finally voted to strike a line has been crossed. The relationship has probably been changed permanently now. Well done government! Talk of legislation to ban key workers striking and of vocation just tubs salt in the wound.
Remember the 15% rise in barristers public fees a curved by striking? Why wouldn’t the nurses (and other key workers) expect similar? The country can of course afford it, it’s just a question of priorities.
Private sector pay outstripping inflation?!? In the Eighties, maybe!
As for "the country can afford it" in relation to NHS wages, quite simply
There are around 2,500 legal aid barristers in the UK. By contrast, there are over a million employees in the NHS, and that doesn't include those who work in GP surgeries!
To put that another way, that's roughly 1 in every 30 people paying income tax in the UK, and you think the country can afford to give them all their 15% payrise? How??? Where is the money coming from??? Like most people in the private sector, I've had bugger all for the past couple of years other than "if you think you can earn more elsewhere, we would regrettably understand and accept your resignation" but you think I've got a load of spare cash down the back of the sofa with which to pay more tax to fund salary increases for a million people in the NHS??? Have I f
k! The greedy fkers just need a reality check before they alienate the entire country.I’m sure nurses would settle for that.
valiant said:
Kermit power said:
Tobermory said:
I think that people in the public sector are fed up seeing their pay fall behind when times are good and private sector wages increase ahead of inflation, bolstered by employee share schemes etc yet when things are not so rosy they have to share the pain.
Also how many nurses were furloughed? The pay review body is far from independent, and with an essentially monopolistic employer it’s a dysfunctional negotiation.
The thing is, with vacancies so high the shoe is on the other foot, and having finally voted to strike a line has been crossed. The relationship has probably been changed permanently now. Well done government! Talk of legislation to ban key workers striking and of vocation just tubs salt in the wound.
Remember the 15% rise in barristers public fees a curved by striking? Why wouldn’t the nurses (and other key workers) expect similar? The country can of course afford it, it’s just a question of priorities.
What sort of dream world are you living in???Also how many nurses were furloughed? The pay review body is far from independent, and with an essentially monopolistic employer it’s a dysfunctional negotiation.
The thing is, with vacancies so high the shoe is on the other foot, and having finally voted to strike a line has been crossed. The relationship has probably been changed permanently now. Well done government! Talk of legislation to ban key workers striking and of vocation just tubs salt in the wound.
Remember the 15% rise in barristers public fees a curved by striking? Why wouldn’t the nurses (and other key workers) expect similar? The country can of course afford it, it’s just a question of priorities.
Private sector pay outstripping inflation?!? In the Eighties, maybe!
As for "the country can afford it" in relation to NHS wages, quite simply
There are around 2,500 legal aid barristers in the UK. By contrast, there are over a million employees in the NHS, and that doesn't include those who work in GP surgeries!
To put that another way, that's roughly 1 in every 30 people paying income tax in the UK, and you think the country can afford to give them all their 15% payrise? How??? Where is the money coming from??? Like most people in the private sector, I've had bugger all for the past couple of years other than "if you think you can earn more elsewhere, we would regrettably understand and accept your resignation" but you think I've got a load of spare cash down the back of the sofa with which to pay more tax to fund salary increases for a million people in the NHS??? Have I f
k! The greedy fkers just need a reality check before they alienate the entire country.I’m sure nurses would settle for that.
valiant said:
And yet 10% was found for pensioners…
.
Despite the efforts by some to pretend it is unusual as far as I am aware the basic state pension has increased by at least the level of inflation since its creation around a hundred years ago, if it didn't then it would be useless as a means of provision for retirement, and no-one could rely upon it. .
So "finding" the funding to meet its basic obligations doesn't really say much about the level of funding available for everything else.
Tobermory said:
Nurses did not vote for the COVID response (irrespective of whether you think it was the right one) and they bore a heavy burden during covid yet while pensioners are protected they should pay the price, really?
Some nurses and NHS staff bore an increased burden, but there were also many sat round twiddling their thumbs as so much routine care was cancelled because of Covid.Maybe instead of making insane pay demands that the taxpayer can't afford, there could be one off Covid bonus payments to those who actually did have that heavy burden?
Alternatively, the government could just admit that we cannot cope without widespread immigration and open the doors once more for cheaper nursing staff?
Kermit power said:
Tobermory said:
Nurses did not vote for the COVID response (irrespective of whether you think it was the right one) and they bore a heavy burden during covid yet while pensioners are protected they should pay the price, really?
Some nurses and NHS staff bore an increased burden, but there were also many sat round twiddling their thumbs as so much routine care was cancelled because of Covid.Maybe instead of making insane pay demands that the taxpayer can't afford, there could be one off Covid bonus payments to those who actually did have that heavy burden?
Alternatively, the government could just admit that we cannot cope without widespread immigration and open the doors once more for cheaper nursing staff?
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 30th November 09:13
Pay is pretty poor for driving examiners, considering they are flat out atm with a huge backlog and the experience they have, its not just cars, but HGVs and ambulance tests etc
With inflation (thanks Liz & Boris) the poor pay is magnified
This is where someone says "well they should get another job etc" the trouble is , then the above backlog will get even longer and most probably enjoy their job, but feel their pay is under market rate
Agree with the post above - the Government is doing an ace job of ruining themselves without the unions
We vote a government to govern and deal with these issues and they simply arent .
With inflation (thanks Liz & Boris) the poor pay is magnified
This is where someone says "well they should get another job etc" the trouble is , then the above backlog will get even longer and most probably enjoy their job, but feel their pay is under market rate
Agree with the post above - the Government is doing an ace job of ruining themselves without the unions
We vote a government to govern and deal with these issues and they simply arent .
JagLover said:
valiant said:
And yet 10% was found for pensioners…
.
Despite the efforts by some to pretend it is unusual as far as I am aware the basic state pension has increased by at least the level of inflation since its creation around a hundred years ago, if it didn't then it would be useless as a means of provision for retirement, and no-one could rely upon it. .
So "finding" the funding to meet its basic obligations doesn't really say much about the level of funding available for everything else.
the problem is for post workers they are dispensible for a large part of their services. and can be replaced easily with private sector albeit at a higher cost. and that exactly is what a number of businesses are doing.
patiently waiting on a new router shipped from our Fibre supplier who happened to use Royal mail. they've advised if it doesnt appear by Friday they'll send another by an alternative courier. small businesses are not going to use RM for packets or parcels when their own customer base start complaining and will vote with their feet. whilst none of the large courier companies have the cpacity that Royal mail have they can certainly strip large volumes of profitable work off of Royal mail leaving the overall organisation further at risk.
say for example you send 10'000 widgets a week by Royal mail at £2,85 a parcel second class and a few more important ones first class at £3.95 thats circa £1.5million a year your spending with RM. I'd imagine that DPD Evri Yodel and every other courier company under the sun will be fighting tooth and nail to take that business off of Royal mail. as thats profitable. Any of the big players can slot (well maybe not at this time of year) an additional 500k parcels a day through their networks without breaking a sweat and could easily scale their operations up for a damn site more if need be without too much effort. Given that couriers tend to be paid by parcel or by stop, The boots on the ground are unlikely to grumble at their job getting easier covering less distance and making more money that increased volumes bring. on the business side all the courier companies are gearing up for huge growth with massive investment in infrastucture. opening new Hubs and Depots the length and breadth of the UK. Royal mail need to stick a pin in this before it bleeds the entire business out and makes them a loss making entity. and the unions know this. Take some of that nigh on billion pound profit and pay your staff a decent wage or we'll bury us all
patiently waiting on a new router shipped from our Fibre supplier who happened to use Royal mail. they've advised if it doesnt appear by Friday they'll send another by an alternative courier. small businesses are not going to use RM for packets or parcels when their own customer base start complaining and will vote with their feet. whilst none of the large courier companies have the cpacity that Royal mail have they can certainly strip large volumes of profitable work off of Royal mail leaving the overall organisation further at risk.
say for example you send 10'000 widgets a week by Royal mail at £2,85 a parcel second class and a few more important ones first class at £3.95 thats circa £1.5million a year your spending with RM. I'd imagine that DPD Evri Yodel and every other courier company under the sun will be fighting tooth and nail to take that business off of Royal mail. as thats profitable. Any of the big players can slot (well maybe not at this time of year) an additional 500k parcels a day through their networks without breaking a sweat and could easily scale their operations up for a damn site more if need be without too much effort. Given that couriers tend to be paid by parcel or by stop, The boots on the ground are unlikely to grumble at their job getting easier covering less distance and making more money that increased volumes bring. on the business side all the courier companies are gearing up for huge growth with massive investment in infrastucture. opening new Hubs and Depots the length and breadth of the UK. Royal mail need to stick a pin in this before it bleeds the entire business out and makes them a loss making entity. and the unions know this. Take some of that nigh on billion pound profit and pay your staff a decent wage or we'll bury us all
Electro1980 said:
Why is there no obligation to ensure the same level of confidence in pay? What makes pensions so special? I find it interesting you see the state pension as sacrosanct but not healthcare.
Pay is variable and automatic inflationary increases are in decline in the private sector in any case, certainly many people haven't had a pay rise for a number of years. Those still of an age where they can work usually have alternatives if their pay and conditions are not acceptable. On a similar basis to the state pension benefits for the disabled have also risen in line with inflation with little controversy.
Tobermory said:
Kermit power said:
Tobermory said:
Nurses did not vote for the COVID response (irrespective of whether you think it was the right one) and they bore a heavy burden during covid yet while pensioners are protected they should pay the price, really?
Some nurses and NHS staff bore an increased burden, but there were also many sat round twiddling their thumbs as so much routine care was cancelled because of Covid.Maybe instead of making insane pay demands that the taxpayer can't afford, there could be one off Covid bonus payments to those who actually did have that heavy burden?
Alternatively, the government could just admit that we cannot cope without widespread immigration and open the doors once more for cheaper nursing staff?
Edited by Tobermory on Wednesday 30th November 09:13
Yes, let’s have FOM and bring in people that will work for lower wages so that big business can line its pockets - brilliant idea Einstein
And taking medically qualified people from their own countries - Christ what a plan - how about getting our own house in order?
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