Nurses, Rail Staff and Now Driving Examiners
Discussion
JagLover said:
Dixy said:
Would you care to show some source for those figures
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/record-numbers-of-nhs-doctors-and-nursesand if you don't trust the government the HOL looked at it as well
HOL said:
Looking at longer-term trends, the number of FTE non-primary care NHS staff has also grown relative to ten years ago. Between November 2010 and November 2020:
the NHS workforce increased by 15.6%;
the number of professionally qualified clinical staff increased by 15.5%;
the number of doctors increased by 26.9%;
the number of nurses and health visitors increased by 9.1%; and
the number of midwives increased by 15%.
https://lordslibrary.parliament.uk/nhs-staffing-after-covid-19/the NHS workforce increased by 15.6%;
the number of professionally qualified clinical staff increased by 15.5%;
the number of doctors increased by 26.9%;
the number of nurses and health visitors increased by 9.1%; and
the number of midwives increased by 15%.
The issue seems far more on the demand side, and COVID has also seemed to mess up health provision. Likely as well the NHS could be more efficient in how it uses the staff it has.
So, if I have it right, it's nearly 15% over 2 years (of which 5% is not consolidated). It may not be ideal, or as much as many wanted but I can see why many nembers voted to accept it.
I see no point in the RCN attempting further industrial action - which will achieve nothing, but alienate patients even more.
I see no point in the RCN attempting further industrial action - which will achieve nothing, but alienate patients even more.
If it's anything like the dept I work in part time working is promoted to new starts/potential new starts. Thus figures can be skewed not stating FTE but a headcount. Bear in mind 2x part time people equivalent of 1x FTE have the same admin and training needs as 2 people thus capability is reduced too.
Vasco said:
which will achieve nothing, but alienate patients even more.
Absolutely right, far better that they have to wait longer, be cancelled on the day of admission, be cancelled whilst about to get their anaesthetic, oh and if the state is lucky die before their treatment.But then we can all blame the government of the day weather that is the Tories now or Labour in 3 years.
eccles said:
JagLover said:
Dixy said:
Would you care to show some source for those figures
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/record-numbers-of-nhs-doctors-and-nursesand if you don't trust the government the HOL looked at it as well
HOL said:
Looking at longer-term trends, the number of FTE non-primary care NHS staff has also grown relative to ten years ago. Between November 2010 and November 2020:
the NHS workforce increased by 15.6%;
the number of professionally qualified clinical staff increased by 15.5%;
the number of doctors increased by 26.9%;
the number of nurses and health visitors increased by 9.1%; and
the number of midwives increased by 15%.
https://lordslibrary.parliament.uk/nhs-staffing-after-covid-19/the NHS workforce increased by 15.6%;
the number of professionally qualified clinical staff increased by 15.5%;
the number of doctors increased by 26.9%;
the number of nurses and health visitors increased by 9.1%; and
the number of midwives increased by 15%.
The issue seems far more on the demand side, and COVID has also seemed to mess up health provision. Likely as well the NHS could be more efficient in how it uses the staff it has.
sawman said:
eccles said:
JagLover said:
Dixy said:
Would you care to show some source for those figures
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/record-numbers-of-nhs-doctors-and-nursesand if you don't trust the government the HOL looked at it as well
HOL said:
Looking at longer-term trends, the number of FTE non-primary care NHS staff has also grown relative to ten years ago. Between November 2010 and November 2020:
the NHS workforce increased by 15.6%;
the number of professionally qualified clinical staff increased by 15.5%;
the number of doctors increased by 26.9%;
the number of nurses and health visitors increased by 9.1%; and
the number of midwives increased by 15%.
https://lordslibrary.parliament.uk/nhs-staffing-after-covid-19/the NHS workforce increased by 15.6%;
the number of professionally qualified clinical staff increased by 15.5%;
the number of doctors increased by 26.9%;
the number of nurses and health visitors increased by 9.1%; and
the number of midwives increased by 15%.
The issue seems far more on the demand side, and COVID has also seemed to mess up health provision. Likely as well the NHS could be more efficient in how it uses the staff it has.
Everyone is burnt out, and many are transferring to the community as positions arise, but aren't getting backfilled once they've gone.
sawman said:
The other perspective is it will guarantee unrest and propagate a further nosedive in staff morale. Particularly next year when the rank and file realise that they have been worked over and next years rise will be less than they expected (due to the lump sum not being consolidated and so wasnt used as a basis for next years rise)
The non consolidated lump sum is known now. Shouldn't be a shock next year. However a different government may try an appease staff Vasco said:
So.......
Are the staff numbers definitely going up - or is it a play on total numbers due to Full Time Equivalent calculations ????
Services are expanding without the staff to back them up. Population is getting older and more complex and expectations for what the NHS provides ever increases. So total numbers may be going up, but spread more thinly meaning there are still increasing vacancy rates.Are the staff numbers definitely going up - or is it a play on total numbers due to Full Time Equivalent calculations ????
sawman said:
pavarotti1980 said:
The non consolidated lump sum is known now. Shouldn't be a shock next year. However a different government may try an appease staff
Known by those who looked at the detail….Only 25% of my prof group even bothered to vote eccles said:
sawman said:
eccles said:
JagLover said:
Dixy said:
Would you care to show some source for those figures
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/record-numbers-of-nhs-doctors-and-nursesand if you don't trust the government the HOL looked at it as well
HOL said:
Looking at longer-term trends, the number of FTE non-primary care NHS staff has also grown relative to ten years ago. Between November 2010 and November 2020:
the NHS workforce increased by 15.6%;
the number of professionally qualified clinical staff increased by 15.5%;
the number of doctors increased by 26.9%;
the number of nurses and health visitors increased by 9.1%; and
the number of midwives increased by 15%.
https://lordslibrary.parliament.uk/nhs-staffing-after-covid-19/the NHS workforce increased by 15.6%;
the number of professionally qualified clinical staff increased by 15.5%;
the number of doctors increased by 26.9%;
the number of nurses and health visitors increased by 9.1%; and
the number of midwives increased by 15%.
The issue seems far more on the demand side, and COVID has also seemed to mess up health provision. Likely as well the NHS could be more efficient in how it uses the staff it has.
Everyone is burnt out, and many are transferring to the community as positions arise, but aren't getting backfilled once they've gone.
1) Numbers can still go up and individual wards/hospitals still be down on numbers.
2) Elective surgery can still be cancelled even if numbers are rising
3) People can still be working overtime even if numbers are rising
If numbers are rising slower than demand is rising, or if the numbers being added are being added in the "wrong" areas, we still have a problem. Albeit less of a problem than we would have had if numbers hadn't risen.
This is the perennial issue with the NHS. Can funding, staffing, training etc etc keep pace with an ageing population that isn't getting any healthier and also demands treatment for more and more conditions? Currently the answer is no.
(And yes, I totally get some people think that if we implemented a German system, or a French system then all would be fine. I'm not convinced, but would be great for someone in power to make the case and show their workings ).
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