NHS whats happened?
Discussion
TwistingMyMelon said:
BabySharkDD said:
Getragdogleg said:
Locally the care used to be spread around multiple hospitals.
We had a town a and e, a maternity hospital, a respite hospital many satellite clinics.
All gone, now its all at the main city hospital and they can't cope.
They were supposed to improve the main hospitals to ‘super hospital’ status. Instead it seems that smaller units were shut and no improvements were made.We had a town a and e, a maternity hospital, a respite hospital many satellite clinics.
All gone, now its all at the main city hospital and they can't cope.
Cottage hospitals would be a huge help right now.
People seem to get fixated with the buildings when its the staff to work in them when it is more the staff to work in them is more the issue
Its ripe for a reshuffle and some actual organisation.
The thing I haven't had great experiences of private healthcare over the past few years I paid for some private testing @ a local bupa hospital:
The nurse who could do it went away for two weeks, no out of office on email or diverted calls, or even a voicemail option on the phone. This was simply trying to book an appointment. It was only ringing the reception of hospital after trying the direct line for a week they managed to tell me this
Got to hospital and no parking available, tiny car park with lots of cars abandoned up verges, mud everywhere and real neglect on maintaining the grounds. No on street parking avail as its on a main road.
Park (finally) go to waiting room and no seats, so I have to queue down a corridor for 20 mins - everything looks really dated and worn
Proper first world problems and I wasn't bothered, but was quite surprised how crap it all was!
Last year, I needed to book some testing for my son, long NHS wait, so went private, quite expensive. The private clinic managed to loose all our private paperwork and "forget" we were waiting for an appt. Took 5 + phone calls to get an appointment and then a 6 month wait! It would have been a 4 month wait if they hadn't lost our info .
I dont think the grass is always greaner
Having said that my denplan dentists are lovely , super organised and great treatment for £30 a month . Which is the same costs to rent last years model iphone
The nurse who could do it went away for two weeks, no out of office on email or diverted calls, or even a voicemail option on the phone. This was simply trying to book an appointment. It was only ringing the reception of hospital after trying the direct line for a week they managed to tell me this
Got to hospital and no parking available, tiny car park with lots of cars abandoned up verges, mud everywhere and real neglect on maintaining the grounds. No on street parking avail as its on a main road.
Park (finally) go to waiting room and no seats, so I have to queue down a corridor for 20 mins - everything looks really dated and worn
Proper first world problems and I wasn't bothered, but was quite surprised how crap it all was!
Last year, I needed to book some testing for my son, long NHS wait, so went private, quite expensive. The private clinic managed to loose all our private paperwork and "forget" we were waiting for an appt. Took 5 + phone calls to get an appointment and then a 6 month wait! It would have been a 4 month wait if they hadn't lost our info .
I dont think the grass is always greaner
Having said that my denplan dentists are lovely , super organised and great treatment for £30 a month . Which is the same costs to rent last years model iphone
Edited by TwistingMyMelon on Friday 13th January 12:25
Ntv said:
Yes, my tax certainly has gone up, through various reductions in allowances, due payment times, freezing of thresholds etc. It's gone up quite a bit (making the necessary assumption that income was level).
Ah I see your position, it's fair because it was done in the past.
Not a great argument irrespective of the underlying subject matter, but I sense you are stuck in that way of thinking.
Mine hasnt changed since COVID as a %Ah I see your position, it's fair because it was done in the past.
Not a great argument irrespective of the underlying subject matter, but I sense you are stuck in that way of thinking.
Mr Whippy said:
Diabetics who are overweight?
Overweight fine, diabetic fine, but both? Should we pay to cover idiocy?
Heart disease, fine, but on top of being unhealthy for years on end? No.
Very clearly by providing help these people don’t learn a lesson and carry on being a burden.
Now if we lived in a super rich society with infinite resources, fine, but we don’t, so we shouldn’t enable people to abuse their bodies at societies cost.
Sports injuries? Getting less clear now. No one plays or partakes in sports knowing they’ll be injured.
Maybe if a doctor or gp has advised for years after many visits that the activity isn’t wise, then fair play… say they’ll not be covered and need insuring.
RTC, no one plans on crashing. This is exactly what the NHS is there for… the out of the blue life-threatening accidents.
Or there for people whose bodies just fail.
It’s very clear where the lines are in my view.
Just it seems no one is willing to be harsh about it.
People won’t learn and change while we have a system that enables them to be the way they are.
The NHS and government are enablers. They’re as bad as the people being the burden.
basically charge drunks as that will solve the NHS crisis...Overweight fine, diabetic fine, but both? Should we pay to cover idiocy?
Heart disease, fine, but on top of being unhealthy for years on end? No.
Very clearly by providing help these people don’t learn a lesson and carry on being a burden.
Now if we lived in a super rich society with infinite resources, fine, but we don’t, so we shouldn’t enable people to abuse their bodies at societies cost.
Sports injuries? Getting less clear now. No one plays or partakes in sports knowing they’ll be injured.
Maybe if a doctor or gp has advised for years after many visits that the activity isn’t wise, then fair play… say they’ll not be covered and need insuring.
RTC, no one plans on crashing. This is exactly what the NHS is there for… the out of the blue life-threatening accidents.
Or there for people whose bodies just fail.
It’s very clear where the lines are in my view.
Just it seems no one is willing to be harsh about it.
People won’t learn and change while we have a system that enables them to be the way they are.
The NHS and government are enablers. They’re as bad as the people being the burden.
Edited by pavarotti1980 on Friday 13th January 12:30
Getragdogleg said:
We have the people it's just they are occupied in non-jobs and management.
Its ripe for a reshuffle and some actual organisation.
How many “front line” vacancies are there at the moment I wonder? Everyone says NHS staff shortages but never, to my knowledge, splits it down.Its ripe for a reshuffle and some actual organisation.
I suspect there are front line shortages (has been for ages), the question that needs addressing is why. Is it salary, cost of training, overseas staff not wanting to come to the UK?
Who knows but something needs to be done to increase staff who provide the care along with looking at the social care issues which causes the bed blocking and the shortage of available beds.
You cannot run a health service at 95% occupancy like you would a hotel, you need to have some slack to cover the peaks of demand, usually in winter.
bigandclever said:
Not sure if that's satire or not, but the BMA and the European Union of General Practitioners say a safe number of patient contacts per day is 25. Across the board GPs deal with getting on with double that. Fundamentally we need more GPs not an attitude readjustment (well, maybe the great unwashed could start taking some responsibility).
So why not create more GP’s? The whole system is broken. Limited number of medic places in Uni turning away very clever students whereas Uni’s can churn out hundreds of business studies students. Boringvolvodriver said:
How many “front line” vacancies are there at the moment I wonder? Everyone says NHS staff shortages but never, to my knowledge, splits it down.
I suspect there are front line shortages (has been for ages), the question that needs addressing is why. Is it salary, cost of training, overseas staff not wanting to come to the UK?
Who knows but something needs to be done to increase staff who provide the care along with looking at the social care issues which causes the bed blocking and the shortage of available beds.
You cannot run a health service at 95% occupancy like you would a hotel, you need to have some slack to cover the peaks of demand, usually in winter.
Currently there are 10,635 on NHS jobs when using the word "nurse" as the search. Obviously this is only active job adverts. There will lots waiting to go out for advert or recently closedI suspect there are front line shortages (has been for ages), the question that needs addressing is why. Is it salary, cost of training, overseas staff not wanting to come to the UK?
Who knows but something needs to be done to increase staff who provide the care along with looking at the social care issues which causes the bed blocking and the shortage of available beds.
You cannot run a health service at 95% occupancy like you would a hotel, you need to have some slack to cover the peaks of demand, usually in winter.
https://www.jobs.nhs.uk/xi/search_vacancy/
pavarotti1980 said:
Boringvolvodriver said:
How many “front line” vacancies are there at the moment I wonder? Everyone says NHS staff shortages but never, to my knowledge, splits it down.
I suspect there are front line shortages (has been for ages), the question that needs addressing is why. Is it salary, cost of training, overseas staff not wanting to come to the UK?
Who knows but something needs to be done to increase staff who provide the care along with looking at the social care issues which causes the bed blocking and the shortage of available beds.
You cannot run a health service at 95% occupancy like you would a hotel, you need to have some slack to cover the peaks of demand, usually in winter.
Currently there are 10,635 on NHS jobs when using the word "nurse" as the search. Obviously this is only active job adverts. There will lots waiting to go out for advert or recently closedI suspect there are front line shortages (has been for ages), the question that needs addressing is why. Is it salary, cost of training, overseas staff not wanting to come to the UK?
Who knows but something needs to be done to increase staff who provide the care along with looking at the social care issues which causes the bed blocking and the shortage of available beds.
You cannot run a health service at 95% occupancy like you would a hotel, you need to have some slack to cover the peaks of demand, usually in winter.
https://www.jobs.nhs.uk/xi/search_vacancy/
BoRED S2upid said:
bigandclever said:
Not sure if that's satire or not, but the BMA and the European Union of General Practitioners say a safe number of patient contacts per day is 25. Across the board GPs deal with getting on with double that. Fundamentally we need more GPs not an attitude readjustment (well, maybe the great unwashed could start taking some responsibility).
So why not create more GP’s? The whole system is broken. Limited number of medic places in Uni turning away very clever students whereas Uni’s can churn out hundreds of business studies students. These students bring in a huge revenue for the university but they will invariably leave after training and very few students from the U.K./ROI get to attend or qualify as Dr’s
It’s a bit self defeating really
Short term
1. Pay NHS staff / care workers a wage that will attract more people to it so we are fully staffed
2. Increase N.I. if we have to to pay for this
Medium term
1. Train more doctors and dentists, and have them commit to at least 5 years work in the NHS before they can move on
Long term
1. Efficiencies in the NHS, cost savings
2. Better management - remove bureaucracy
What else?
1. Pay NHS staff / care workers a wage that will attract more people to it so we are fully staffed
2. Increase N.I. if we have to to pay for this
Medium term
1. Train more doctors and dentists, and have them commit to at least 5 years work in the NHS before they can move on
Long term
1. Efficiencies in the NHS, cost savings
2. Better management - remove bureaucracy
What else?
s1962a said:
Short term
1. Pay NHS staff / care workers a wage that will attract more people to it so we are fully staffed
2. Increase N.I. if we have to to pay for this
Medium term
1. Train more doctors and dentists, and have them commit to at least 5 years work in the NHS before they can move on
Long term
1. Efficiencies in the NHS, cost savings
2. Better management - remove bureaucracy
What else?
Death panels/ rationing. Transparent based on QALY. 1. Pay NHS staff / care workers a wage that will attract more people to it so we are fully staffed
2. Increase N.I. if we have to to pay for this
Medium term
1. Train more doctors and dentists, and have them commit to at least 5 years work in the NHS before they can move on
Long term
1. Efficiencies in the NHS, cost savings
2. Better management - remove bureaucracy
What else?
BoRED S2upid said:
So why not create more GP’s? The whole system is broken. Limited number of medic places in Uni turning away very clever students whereas Uni’s can churn out hundreds of business studies students.
It's a fair point; our universities are very good at delivering graduates in criminology, history and the like, but very poor at producing graduates in disciplines we actually need. Broadly, the capabilities in our higher education sector are very impressive, but are largely wasted because we insist on swathes of young people spending three years learning nothing of much value. And we all pay for it, since most student debt is never repaid.My career involved preparing graduates for professional exams - specifically in accountancy. Students with their 2.1's and firsts in business studies were often utterly clueless!
I would like to see a massive shake up of higher education. We could have shorter courses in areas like nursing, midwifery, mental health and so on. Why are all degree courses three years(not the OU I suppose)? If there's a vital need for more graduates in a given discipline, the £9250 fee could be waived. We need to stop paying universities to deliver pointless degrees; it's a luxury we can ill afford.
pavarotti1980 said:
Ntv said:
Yes, my tax certainly has gone up, through various reductions in allowances, due payment times, freezing of thresholds etc. It's gone up quite a bit (making the necessary assumption that income was level).
Ah I see your position, it's fair because it was done in the past.
Not a great argument irrespective of the underlying subject matter, but I sense you are stuck in that way of thinking.
Mine hasnt changed since COVID as a %Ah I see your position, it's fair because it was done in the past.
Not a great argument irrespective of the underlying subject matter, but I sense you are stuck in that way of thinking.
Mr Whippy said:
Diabetics who are overweight?
Overweight fine, diabetic fine, but both? Should we pay to cover idiocy?
Heart disease, fine, but on top of being unhealthy for years on end? No.
Very clearly by providing help these people don’t learn a lesson and carry on being a burden.
Now if we lived in a super rich society with infinite resources, fine, but we don’t, so we shouldn’t enable people to abuse their bodies at societies cost.
Sports injuries? Getting less clear now. No one plays or partakes in sports knowing they’ll be injured.
Maybe if a doctor or gp has advised for years after many visits that the activity isn’t wise, then fair play… say they’ll not be covered and need insuring.
RTC, no one plans on crashing. This is exactly what the NHS is there for… the out of the blue life-threatening accidents.
Or there for people whose bodies just fail.
It’s very clear where the lines are in my view.
Just it seems no one is willing to be harsh about it.
People won’t learn and change while we have a system that enables them to be the way they are.
The NHS and government are enablers. They’re as bad as the people being the burden.
basically charge drunks as that will solve the NHS crisis...Overweight fine, diabetic fine, but both? Should we pay to cover idiocy?
Heart disease, fine, but on top of being unhealthy for years on end? No.
Very clearly by providing help these people don’t learn a lesson and carry on being a burden.
Now if we lived in a super rich society with infinite resources, fine, but we don’t, so we shouldn’t enable people to abuse their bodies at societies cost.
Sports injuries? Getting less clear now. No one plays or partakes in sports knowing they’ll be injured.
Maybe if a doctor or gp has advised for years after many visits that the activity isn’t wise, then fair play… say they’ll not be covered and need insuring.
RTC, no one plans on crashing. This is exactly what the NHS is there for… the out of the blue life-threatening accidents.
Or there for people whose bodies just fail.
It’s very clear where the lines are in my view.
Just it seems no one is willing to be harsh about it.
People won’t learn and change while we have a system that enables them to be the way they are.
The NHS and government are enablers. They’re as bad as the people being the burden.
Edited by pavarotti1980 on Friday 13th January 12:30
Tax to GDP has essentially been heading upwards in the UK for about 30 years, with a very sharp pick up in the last two years. On top of what's counted as tax, the state, in the broadest sense, I suspect takes more of our money in fines/charges than it used to.
Edited by Ntv on Friday 13th January 14:57
pavarotti1980 said:
basically charge drunks as that will solve the NHS crisis...
Based on a family member training as a paramedic drunks are not the largest drain, in order;Edited by pavarotti1980 on Friday 13th January 12:30
- Not 999 emergency (generally people with stomach aches thinking they will get rushed through A&E by calling an ambulance)
- Old people
- Obeseity and related
- Mental Health drugs
Ntv said:
Pleased your tax hasn't changed over the past 3 years. That is quite remarkable given the various changes to rates and thresholds. 99.9X% of people will have a different level of tax. Most people are paying more tax, sadly.
Tax to GDP has essentially been heading upwards in the UK for about 30 years, with a very sharp pick up in the last two years. On top of what's counted as tax, the state, in the broadest sense, I suspect takes more of our money in fines/charges than it used to.
% rate has remained the sameTax to GDP has essentially been heading upwards in the UK for about 30 years, with a very sharp pick up in the last two years. On top of what's counted as tax, the state, in the broadest sense, I suspect takes more of our money in fines/charges than it used to.
Edited by Ntv on Friday 13th January 14:57
I dont compare my contributions with GDP, sorry I don't earn that much
Griffith4ever said:
DBSV8 said:
LivLL said:
272BHP said:
Why call an ambulance for a fractured leg?
Why could someone not get him in a vehicle and off to A&E?
Broken femur, yup well just lift him up and pop him in the fiesta. Ok.Why could someone not get him in a vehicle and off to A&E?
It’s just an example of how like the OP, years ago same was apparent. We all know it isn’t a bottomless pit of resources, I’m sure the MHS has plenty of stats to show overall performance rather than individual cases.
once it arrived at hospital is where the problem arose
he was then sat outside the hospital in the ambulance for 14 1/2 hrs which seems a waste of resources
Very unpleasant break, seen one first hand. The leg muscles no longer have the femur holding the leg straight so they slowly contract, "folding " the leg up. Someone has to (carefully) pull it straight at some point, making sure to avoid the artery. I have never heard an adult man scream so much in my life when they did it in the back of the ambulance, and he was on gas and air!
Not pleasant
pavarotti1980 said:
Ntv said:
Higher tax in part due to huge cost of COVID response - a policy to protect the elderly primarily.
I don't get your last sentence. The point is that income tax, in effect (not quite, but close), is comprised of Income Tax plus NICs. And the latter are not paid by those who are retired. Meaning a working person earning £50k pays far more "income tax" than a retired person with pension income of £50k.
Can you explain why you think this is fair?
Has you tax gone up (%) since 2019/20 and COVID?I don't get your last sentence. The point is that income tax, in effect (not quite, but close), is comprised of Income Tax plus NICs. And the latter are not paid by those who are retired. Meaning a working person earning £50k pays far more "income tax" than a retired person with pension income of £50k.
Can you explain why you think this is fair?
Its fair because they have paid for the previous generation of pensioners whilst of working age. The current generation who now have to work longer before state pension age will pay for this generation.
We have increased NHS spending, increased taxes on working people, increased deficit and increased debt.
Where next?
Why is there this belief that pensioners are impoverished, having worked a life of toil and contribution and should be granted all benefits for however long they live and however much service they consume, all whilst contributing far less to the pot they take most from?
0.5% annual levy on all net assets would solve the imbalance right away, even if you kept NIC rules as now. Own a £1m home with no mortgage and another £300k in the bank (as most retired folk round me do) - annual levy of £6,500.
If you're genuinely impoverished and own no assets - annual levy £0.
pavarotti1980 said:
Ntv said:
Pleased your tax hasn't changed over the past 3 years. That is quite remarkable given the various changes to rates and thresholds. 99.9X% of people will have a different level of tax. Most people are paying more tax, sadly.
Tax to GDP has essentially been heading upwards in the UK for about 30 years, with a very sharp pick up in the last two years. On top of what's counted as tax, the state, in the broadest sense, I suspect takes more of our money in fines/charges than it used to.
% rate has remained the sameTax to GDP has essentially been heading upwards in the UK for about 30 years, with a very sharp pick up in the last two years. On top of what's counted as tax, the state, in the broadest sense, I suspect takes more of our money in fines/charges than it used to.
Edited by Ntv on Friday 13th January 14:57
I dont compare my contributions with GDP, sorry I don't earn that much
The amount of tax you are paying will have gone up if your income is the same
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