Brexit - was it worth it? (Vol. 4)

[Vanden Saab]

Mortarboard said:

Paywalled, but the FT is showing a record 5 year trade volume drop for the UK.
7% on exports, 5% on imports.
https://www.ft.com/brexit (first article, dated 1st march)

12% loss overall.

The other 88% better be some exquisite quality to make up for that. Beard oil anyone?

M.

Services exports alone up over 20% in the same period.
Services balance of payments at £35b just for the last quarter.
Services provide 80% of UK GDP.

But yeah 7% or something.

[Mortarboard]

Vanden Saab said:

Services exports alone up over 20% in the same period.
Services balance of payments at £35b just for the last quarter.
Services provide 80% of UK GDP.

But yeah 7% or something.

Brexit doesn't cover services

You're proving the point that brexit has been a disaster.

M.

[bad company]

Mortarboard said:

Brexit doesn't cover services

You're proving the point that brexit has been a disaster.

M.

Brexit has been mismanaged, we haven’t made the best of it which is tragic imo.

I’d still vote leave again though.

[crankedup5]

The U.K. is in its infancy of its recently renewed full Sovereign Nation status, barely four years in and those years filled with major Global events. But yes our Government have thus far produced poor results and fallen below expectations of delivering more brexit benefits.
And yes I would vote to leave the EU all over again.

[Vanden Saab]

Mortarboard said:

Vanden Saab said:

Services exports alone up over 20% in the same period.
Services balance of payments at £35b just for the last quarter.
Services provide 80% of UK GDP.

But yeah 7% or something.

Brexit doesn't cover services

You're proving the point that brexit has been a disaster.

M.

Not really, you are taking total goods export and import volumes for the UK with the whole world and suggesting it is because of Brexit even though our numbers with the EU have not changed vs the RoW in percentage terms. I am not sure how you explain the equal drop with the RoW as with the EU as because brexit but I am sure it will be because remainer economists from the Resolution centre and laughably the Centre for European reform say so.
Where is the 14% reduction in services exports they predicted due to Brexit?
More doppelganger economics forecasting from John Springford the renowned economist careers advisor. .

Edited by Vanden Saab on Sunday 3rd March 18:16

[Kermit power]

crankedup5 said:

Kermit power said:

crankedup5 said:

glazbagun said:

Prolex-UK said:

In answer to the subject of the thread.

No

Pretty much. Cost vs Benefit is pretty much all one way.

Brings out the old ‘the price of everything, value of nothing’ statement. In this case very appropriate.

So what is the value of Brexit?

What is the value of "sovereignty" in a globalised world where anyone wishing to trade with our closest export markets will still have to adhere to EU regs?

What is the value of "taking back control" of our borders in a world where our ageing population means we need immigration to keep things working and all Brexit has succeeding in doing is driving away the Europeans whom the more Reform leaning might consider more "like us", meaning we need to let in more of those whom they might consider "invading hordes".

I disagree with not only the content of your post but also it’s tone. Not worth my effort of reply.

Fair enough, but you're really doing a cracking job of throwing stones in glass houses if you're going to accuse someone of knowing the value of nothing but cannot then describe a value yourself.

If you cannot attach a value to sovereignty and the regaining of control - the things always underlined by Brexitiers when stressing how they accepted economic losses when they decided to vote Leave - in today's globalised economy then what precisely was the point of voting Leave?

Surely it can't have been done on the basis of emotion with no thought as to whether any of the stated aims could ever actually be achieved, could it?

[Vanden Saab]

Kermit power said:

Fair enough, but you're really doing a cracking job of throwing stones in glass houses if you're going to accuse someone of knowing the value of nothing but cannot then describe a value yourself.

If you cannot attach a value to sovereignty and the regaining of control - the things always underlined by Brexitiers when stressing how they accepted economic losses when they decided to vote Leave - in today's globalised economy then what precisely was the point of voting Leave?

Surely it can't have been done on the basis of emotion with no thought as to whether any of the stated aims could ever actually be achieved, could it?

What value do you put on your wife, husband or child? I mean they must have a monetary value right. You would not have any of them otherwise.

[Mortarboard]

Vanden Saab said:

Not really, you are taking total goods export and import volumes for the UK with the whole world and suggesting it is because of Brexit even though our numbers with the EU have not changed vs the RoW in percentage terms. I am not sure how you explain the equal drop with the RoW as with the EU as because brexit but I am sure it will be because remainer economists from the Resolution centre and laughably the Centre for European reform say so.
Where is the 14% reduction in services exports they predicted due to Brexit?
More doppelganger economics forecasting from John Springford the renowned economist careers advisor. .

Edited by Vanden Saab on Sunday 3rd March 18:16

Do you want to use comparisons of actual numbers against peers or not?

12% drop in trade volumes has a detrimental effect. Ignore it all you wish.

M.

[Vanden Saab]

Mortarboard said:

Vanden Saab said:

Not really, you are taking total goods export and import volumes for the UK with the whole world and suggesting it is because of Brexit even though our numbers with the EU have not changed vs the RoW in percentage terms. I am not sure how you explain the equal drop with the RoW as with the EU as because brexit but I am sure it will be because remainer economists from the Resolution centre and laughably the Centre for European reform say so.
Where is the 14% reduction in services exports they predicted due to Brexit?
More doppelganger economics forecasting from John Springford the renowned economist careers advisor. .

Edited by Vanden Saab on Sunday 3rd March 18:16

Do you want to use comparisons of actual numbers against peers or not?

12% drop in trade volumes has a detrimental effect. Ignore it all you wish.

M.

I am not arguing that trade volumes are lower but that the link to Brexit is weak to laughable comprising of forecasts, assumptions, doppelgangers and even in Springfolds case intuition..
That exports to the RoW is down at the same level as those to the EU makes a mockery of the suggestion it is because of trade barriers with the EU. Springfold himself suggests that the reduction in EU exports is due to more intra-EU trade but does not do the same for the UK, which is amusing and shows his obvious bias.

[Mortarboard]

Vanden Saab said:

I am not arguing that trade volumes are lower but that the link to Brexit is weak to laughable comprising of forecasts, assumptions, doppelgangers and even in Springfolds case intuition..

This is the economic version of flat earthing.

Major change to goods trade environment- volumes drop 12%
No change to services trade environment- volumes rise

"Lol no reason to think it's brexit"

M.

[Vanden Saab]

Mortarboard said:

Vanden Saab said:

I am not arguing that trade volumes are lower but that the link to Brexit is weak to laughable comprising of forecasts, assumptions, doppelgangers and even in Springfolds case intuition..

This is the economic version of flat earthing.

Major change to goods trade environment- volumes drop 12%
No change to services trade environment- volumes rise

"Lol no reason to think it's brexit"

M.

What change in goods trade environment has occurred with the RoW? The economic version of 'i see no ships'

While we are comparing things how did the UK fare following earlier downturns, do we historically recover quicker or slower than other G7 economies? Why do you think that may be, were the earlier slower recoveries in the last century also because of brexit?
Already all the predictions of catastrophe are seen as nonsense and now the well it isn't better argument is falling apart too with only some random measure of trade no one had even heard of before Brexit being held up as some sort of gotcha.
All we have to hope for now is that Labour do not do anything really stupid like closer ties to a failing experiment.

[Mortarboard]

Vanden Saab said:

What change in goods trade environment has occurred with the RoW? The economic version of 'i see no ships'

While we are comparing things how did the UK fare following earlier downturns, do we historically recover quicker or slower than other G7 economies? Why do you think that may be, were the earlier slower recoveries in the last century also because of brexit?
Already all the predictions of catastrophe are seen as nonsense and now the well it isn't better argument is falling apart too with only some random measure of trade no one had even heard of before Brexit being held up as some sort of gotcha.
All we have to hope for now is that Labour do not do anything really stupid like closer ties to a failing experiment.

Keep thinking zebras

M.

[911hope]

crankedup5 said:

The U.K. is in its infancy of its recently renewed full Sovereign Nation status, barely four years in and those years filled with major Global events. But yes our Government have thus far produced poor results and fallen below expectations of delivering more brexit benefits.
And yes I would vote to leave the EU all over again.

Why?

[Kermit power]

Vanden Saab said:

Kermit power said:

Fair enough, but you're really doing a cracking job of throwing stones in glass houses if you're going to accuse someone of knowing the value of nothing but cannot then describe a value yourself.

If you cannot attach a value to sovereignty and the regaining of control - the things always underlined by Brexitiers when stressing how they accepted economic losses when they decided to vote Leave - in today's globalised economy then what precisely was the point of voting Leave?

Surely it can't have been done on the basis of emotion with no thought as to whether any of the stated aims could ever actually be achieved, could it?

What value do you put on your wife, husband or child? I mean they must have a monetary value right. You would not have any of them otherwise.

Who said it had to be a monetary value?

It feels to me that the value you might theoretically apply to Brexit is pretty much impossible to deliver in practice. For you to claim you'd vote Leave again tomorrow you must disagree, so what is the value you actually believe you are seeing, or even could be seeing in reality?

[crankedup5]

Kermit power said:

Vanden Saab said:

Kermit power said:

Fair enough, but you're really doing a cracking job of throwing stones in glass houses if you're going to accuse someone of knowing the value of nothing but cannot then describe a value yourself.

If you cannot attach a value to sovereignty and the regaining of control - the things always underlined by Brexitiers when stressing how they accepted economic losses when they decided to vote Leave - in today's globalised economy then what precisely was the point of voting Leave?

Surely it can't have been done on the basis of emotion with no thought as to whether any of the stated aims could ever actually be achieved, could it?

What value do you put on your wife, husband or child? I mean they must have a monetary value right. You would not have any of them otherwise.

Who said it had to be a monetary value?

It feels to me that the value you might theoretically apply to Brexit is pretty much impossible to deliver in practice. For you to claim you'd vote Leave again tomorrow you must disagree, so what is the value you actually believe you are seeing, or even could be seeing in reality?

It feels to you.
You do not recognise the value of a full National Sovereignty and measure the U.K. former political position within the EU as economically preferable. Fair enough, doesn’t work for me though.
Look back over the past eight years of bickering in these threads for further information.
I can’t comment, nor do I wish to, on behalf of the 17.4 million ‘leave voters’.

Edited by crankedup5 on Sunday 3rd March 21:58

Edited by crankedup5 on Sunday 3rd March 22:00

[PlywoodPascal]

911hope said:

Why?

For the lols

[crankedup5]

911hope said:

crankedup5 said:

The U.K. is in its infancy of its recently renewed full Sovereign Nation status, barely four years in and those years filled with major Global events. But yes our Government have thus far produced poor results and fallen below expectations of delivering more brexit benefits.
And yes I would vote to leave the EU all over again.

Why?

My political and personal beliefs remain almost unchanged since 2016. I am however disappointed that our Government has not brought forward more brexit benefits to date, but brexit is in its infancy.

[911hope]

crankedup5 said:

I can’t comment, nor do I wish to, on behalf of the 17.4 million ‘leave voters’.

Edited by crankedup5 on Sunday 3rd March 21:58

Edited by crankedup5 on Sunday 3rd March 22:00

Plenty of these 17.4m are no longer alive to reap the downsides.

Plenty of the 17.4 will admit to changing their minds.

Plenty will deny ever voting for the Brexit stupidity.

[crankedup5]

911hope said:

crankedup5 said:

I can’t comment, nor do I wish to, on behalf of the 17.4 million ‘leave voters’.

Edited by crankedup5 on Sunday 3rd March 21:58

Edited by crankedup5 on Sunday 3rd March 22:00

Plenty of these 17.4m are no longer alive to reap the downsides.

Plenty of the 17.4 will admit to changing their minds.

Plenty will deny ever voting for the Brexit stupidity.

Nope, brexiteers are taking the easy option because they are sick and tired of being preached to by remainer losers who can’t let it go.
Plenty of remainers have died since the referendum.

[turbobloke]

crankedup5 said:

911hope said:

crankedup5 said:

I can’t comment, nor do I wish to, on behalf of the 17.4 million ‘leave voters’.

Edited by crankedup5 on Sunday 3rd March 21:58

Edited by crankedup5 on Sunday 3rd March 22:00

Plenty of these 17.4m are no longer alive to reap the downsides.

Plenty of the 17.4 will admit to changing their minds.

Plenty will deny ever voting for the Brexit stupidity.

Nope, brexiteers are taking the easy option because they are sick and tired of being preached to by remainer losers who can’t let it go.
Plenty of remainers have died since the referendum.

Indeed.

Remainer telling leavers what they think (admit whatever, deny stupidity nonsense) no surprise there and a strawman deluxe.

Not forgetting that the economic downsides were forecasts, and were wrong, see apologies from BoE Chief Economist, Bloomberg errors etc, plus revised ONS data, while individual remainers and some businesses making the wrong assumption found out what happens when assumptions don't work out. Plenty of sunlit (and moonlit) uplands are being reaped. The above post you replied to is another bile-filled pot of assertions, why not leave such things to fester with their owner(s) as the world has indeed moved on and this far down the line remain is no longer relevant.