Brexit - was it worth it? (Vol. 4)
Discussion
Kermit power said:
What is the value of "taking back control" of our borders in a world where our ageing population means we need immigration to keep things working and all Brexit has succeeding in doing is driving away the Europeans whom the more Reform leaning might consider more "like us", meaning we need to let in more of those whom they might consider "invading hordes".
Still pushing your Ponzi population scheme nonsense.What a surprise that you are an aging ill-informed remoaner as well!
Edited by Ashfordian on Sunday 3rd March 22:50
911hope said:
Plenty of these 17.4m are no longer alive to reap the downsides.
Plenty of the 17.4 will admit to changing their minds.
Plenty will deny ever voting for the Brexit stupidity.
And yet support for rejoining the EU is dropping and there is absolutely no guarantee a second referendum would provide a rejoin result. It seems only a few of the more swivel eyed remainers still think it has made any difference economically and only an even smaller number of those see any benefit in rejoining...Plenty of the 17.4 will admit to changing their minds.
Plenty will deny ever voting for the Brexit stupidity.
As the benefits of Brexit start to work through and the EU fall further behind as we Brexiteers predicted those admitting they voted remain will also drop. The remainers only hope was to reverse the referendum result before people realised they were telling lies about the effects, that ship has now sailed.
John Curtice said:
First, it is far from certain that another referendum would produce a majority for re-joining. Despite widespread doubts about the benefits of Brexit, the anti-Brexit lead in the polls is not that large, differs between polling companies, and is far from invulnerable.
Second, much might rest in any referendum on the preferences of those who reckon Brexit has not made much difference. Seemingly many of them could yet decide it would be better for Britain to make the best of the bed it has now made for itself rather than pursuing the uncertain prospect of trying to reclaim its old one.
https://ukandeu.ac.uk/have-voters-cooled-on-the-pr...Second, much might rest in any referendum on the preferences of those who reckon Brexit has not made much difference. Seemingly many of them could yet decide it would be better for Britain to make the best of the bed it has now made for itself rather than pursuing the uncertain prospect of trying to reclaim its old one.
Even the terminally stupid Starmer is never going to have a referendum and then lose it.
bad company said:
Mortarboard said:
Brexit doesn't cover services 
You're proving the point that brexit has been a disaster.
M.
Brexit has been mismanaged, we haven’t made the best of it which is tragic imo.You're proving the point that brexit has been a disaster.
M.
I’d still vote leave again though.
There was a referendum and the vote was out. Since then we’ve had a major pandemic and there’s a European war so nobody really knows if we’d be better or worse off still I the EU.
As I see it the majority voted leave and that’s it. Time to stop ‘remoaning’ & get in with making the best of it.
As I see it the majority voted leave and that’s it. Time to stop ‘remoaning’ & get in with making the best of it.
turbobloke said:
Not forgetting that the economic downsides were forecasts, and were wrong, see apologies from BoE Chief Economist, Bloomberg errors etc, plus revised ONS data, while individual remainers and some businesses making the wrong assumption found out what happens when assumptions don't work out.
I see the gaslighter in chief is here 
And as per usual, completely and utterly wrong.
Is amuses me greatly to see the effort that some will put into insisting reality doesn't exist.
M.
bad company said:
There was a referendum and the vote was out. Since then we’ve had a major pandemic and there’s a European war so nobody really knows if we’d be better or worse off still I the EU.
Au contraire. The comparison of trade intensity figures negates both of those issues.Which is why some folk in here as so desperate to ignore any negative evidence.
M.
https://www.ft.com/content/6d044f4b-18a8-4987-b39e...
Brexit. The gift that keeps on giving, trade barriers.
Edited by redback911 on Monday 4th March 07:39
Ashfordian said:
Kermit power said:
What is the value of "taking back control" of our borders in a world where our ageing population means we need immigration to keep things working and all Brexit has succeeding in doing is driving away the Europeans whom the more Reform leaning might consider more "like us", meaning we need to let in more of those whom they might consider "invading hordes".
Still pushing your Ponzi population scheme nonsense.What a surprise that you are an aging ill-informed remoaner as well!
Edited by Ashfordian on Sunday 3rd March 22:50
x 2Vanden Saab said:
911hope said:
Plenty of these 17.4m are no longer alive to reap the downsides.
Plenty of the 17.4 will admit to changing their minds.
Plenty will deny ever voting for the Brexit stupidity.
And yet support for rejoining the EU is dropping and there is absolutely no guarantee a second referendum would provide a rejoin result. It seems only a few of the more swivel eyed remainers still think it has made any difference economically and only an even smaller number of those see any benefit in rejoining...Plenty of the 17.4 will admit to changing their minds.
Plenty will deny ever voting for the Brexit stupidity.
As the benefits of Brexit start to work through and the EU fall further behind as we Brexiteers predicted those admitting they voted remain will also drop. The remainers only hope was to reverse the referendum result before people realised they were telling lies about the effects, that ship has now sailed.
John Curtice said:
First, it is far from certain that another referendum would produce a majority for re-joining. Despite widespread doubts about the benefits of Brexit, the anti-Brexit lead in the polls is not that large, differs between polling companies, and is far from invulnerable.
Second, much might rest in any referendum on the preferences of those who reckon Brexit has not made much difference. Seemingly many of them could yet decide it would be better for Britain to make the best of the bed it has now made for itself rather than pursuing the uncertain prospect of trying to reclaim its old one.
https://ukandeu.ac.uk/have-voters-cooled-on-the-pr...Second, much might rest in any referendum on the preferences of those who reckon Brexit has not made much difference. Seemingly many of them could yet decide it would be better for Britain to make the best of the bed it has now made for itself rather than pursuing the uncertain prospect of trying to reclaim its old one.
Even the terminally stupid Starmer is never going to have a referendum and then lose it.
The largest polls show about 58% for and 42% against. Excluding undecided.
https://www.whatukthinks.org/eu/opinion-polls/poll...
I personal do not think Starmer will risk a referenbum. EEA\EFTA far more likely without a referendum.
Mrr T said:
Vanden Saab said:
911hope said:
Plenty of these 17.4m are no longer alive to reap the downsides.
Plenty of the 17.4 will admit to changing their minds.
Plenty will deny ever voting for the Brexit stupidity.
And yet support for rejoining the EU is dropping and there is absolutely no guarantee a second referendum would provide a rejoin result. It seems only a few of the more swivel eyed remainers still think it has made any difference economically and only an even smaller number of those see any benefit in rejoining...Plenty of the 17.4 will admit to changing their minds.
Plenty will deny ever voting for the Brexit stupidity.
As the benefits of Brexit start to work through and the EU fall further behind as we Brexiteers predicted those admitting they voted remain will also drop. The remainers only hope was to reverse the referendum result before people realised they were telling lies about the effects, that ship has now sailed.
John Curtice said:
First, it is far from certain that another referendum would produce a majority for re-joining. Despite widespread doubts about the benefits of Brexit, the anti-Brexit lead in the polls is not that large, differs between polling companies, and is far from invulnerable.
Second, much might rest in any referendum on the preferences of those who reckon Brexit has not made much difference. Seemingly many of them could yet decide it would be better for Britain to make the best of the bed it has now made for itself rather than pursuing the uncertain prospect of trying to reclaim its old one.
https://ukandeu.ac.uk/have-voters-cooled-on-the-pr...Second, much might rest in any referendum on the preferences of those who reckon Brexit has not made much difference. Seemingly many of them could yet decide it would be better for Britain to make the best of the bed it has now made for itself rather than pursuing the uncertain prospect of trying to reclaim its old one.
Even the terminally stupid Starmer is never going to have a referendum and then lose it.
The largest polls show about 58% for and 42% against. Excluding undecided.
https://www.whatukthinks.org/eu/opinion-polls/poll...
I personal do not think Starmer will risk a referenbum. EEA\EFTA far more likely without a referendum.
Your link said...
More remain voters would now vote to stay out than Brexiteers would vote to rejoin...which is the opposite of 911hopes suggestion which just shows hope is all he has got.
As I said as long as Starmer does not do anything stupid like closer ties that limit our ability to decide our own future we will be good.
Vanden Saab said:
911hope said:
Plenty of these 17.4m are no longer alive to reap the downsides.
Plenty of the 17.4 will admit to changing their minds.
Plenty will deny ever voting for the Brexit stupidity.
And yet support for rejoining the EU is dropping and there is absolutely no guarantee a second referendum would provide a rejoin result. It seems only a few of the more swivel eyed remainers still think it has made any difference economically and only an even smaller number of those see any benefit in rejoining...Plenty of the 17.4 will admit to changing their minds.
Plenty will deny ever voting for the Brexit stupidity.
As the benefits of Brexit start to work through and the EU fall further behind as we Brexiteers predicted those admitting they voted remain will also drop. The remainers only hope was to reverse the referendum result before people realised they were telling lies about the effects, that ship has now sailed.
John Curtice said:
First, it is far from certain that another referendum would produce a majority for re-joining. Despite widespread doubts about the benefits of Brexit, the anti-Brexit lead in the polls is not that large, differs between polling companies, and is far from invulnerable.
Second, much might rest in any referendum on the preferences of those who reckon Brexit has not made much difference. Seemingly many of them could yet decide it would be better for Britain to make the best of the bed it has now made for itself rather than pursuing the uncertain prospect of trying to reclaim its old one.
https://ukandeu.ac.uk/have-voters-cooled-on-the-pr...Second, much might rest in any referendum on the preferences of those who reckon Brexit has not made much difference. Seemingly many of them could yet decide it would be better for Britain to make the best of the bed it has now made for itself rather than pursuing the uncertain prospect of trying to reclaim its old one.
Even the terminally stupid Starmer is never going to have a referendum and then lose it.
If Brexit was a success virtually no one would be considering rejoining!
Vanden Saab said:
Mrr T said:
Vanden Saab said:
911hope said:
Plenty of these 17.4m are no longer alive to reap the downsides.
Plenty of the 17.4 will admit to changing their minds.
Plenty will deny ever voting for the Brexit stupidity.
And yet support for rejoining the EU is dropping and there is absolutely no guarantee a second referendum would provide a rejoin result. It seems only a few of the more swivel eyed remainers still think it has made any difference economically and only an even smaller number of those see any benefit in rejoining...Plenty of the 17.4 will admit to changing their minds.
Plenty will deny ever voting for the Brexit stupidity.
As the benefits of Brexit start to work through and the EU fall further behind as we Brexiteers predicted those admitting they voted remain will also drop. The remainers only hope was to reverse the referendum result before people realised they were telling lies about the effects, that ship has now sailed.
John Curtice said:
First, it is far from certain that another referendum would produce a majority for re-joining. Despite widespread doubts about the benefits of Brexit, the anti-Brexit lead in the polls is not that large, differs between polling companies, and is far from invulnerable.
Second, much might rest in any referendum on the preferences of those who reckon Brexit has not made much difference. Seemingly many of them could yet decide it would be better for Britain to make the best of the bed it has now made for itself rather than pursuing the uncertain prospect of trying to reclaim its old one.
https://ukandeu.ac.uk/have-voters-cooled-on-the-pr...Second, much might rest in any referendum on the preferences of those who reckon Brexit has not made much difference. Seemingly many of them could yet decide it would be better for Britain to make the best of the bed it has now made for itself rather than pursuing the uncertain prospect of trying to reclaim its old one.
Even the terminally stupid Starmer is never going to have a referendum and then lose it.
The largest polls show about 58% for and 42% against. Excluding undecided.
https://www.whatukthinks.org/eu/opinion-polls/poll...
I personal do not think Starmer will risk a referenbum. EEA\EFTA far more likely without a referendum.
Your link said...More remain voters would now vote to stay out than Brexiteers would vote to rejoin...which is the opposite of 911hopes suggestion which just shows hope is all he has got.
As I said as long as Starmer does not do anything stupid like closer ties that limit our ability to decide our own future we will be good.
I have included a source which show the numbers who say they would rejoin are now a substantial majority. Excluding don't knows who after all don't know.
I suspect Starmer will do what is best for the UK. Since brexiters seem to have no idea on how to exploit the wonderful opportunities of brexit I expect he will seek much closer ties without actually rejoining.
Mrr T said:
Vanden Saab said:
Mrr T said:
Vanden Saab said:
911hope said:
Plenty of these 17.4m are no longer alive to reap the downsides.
Plenty of the 17.4 will admit to changing their minds.
Plenty will deny ever voting for the Brexit stupidity.
And yet support for rejoining the EU is dropping and there is absolutely no guarantee a second referendum would provide a rejoin result. It seems only a few of the more swivel eyed remainers still think it has made any difference economically and only an even smaller number of those see any benefit in rejoining...Plenty of the 17.4 will admit to changing their minds.
Plenty will deny ever voting for the Brexit stupidity.
As the benefits of Brexit start to work through and the EU fall further behind as we Brexiteers predicted those admitting they voted remain will also drop. The remainers only hope was to reverse the referendum result before people realised they were telling lies about the effects, that ship has now sailed.
John Curtice said:
First, it is far from certain that another referendum would produce a majority for re-joining. Despite widespread doubts about the benefits of Brexit, the anti-Brexit lead in the polls is not that large, differs between polling companies, and is far from invulnerable.
Second, much might rest in any referendum on the preferences of those who reckon Brexit has not made much difference. Seemingly many of them could yet decide it would be better for Britain to make the best of the bed it has now made for itself rather than pursuing the uncertain prospect of trying to reclaim its old one.
https://ukandeu.ac.uk/have-voters-cooled-on-the-pr...Second, much might rest in any referendum on the preferences of those who reckon Brexit has not made much difference. Seemingly many of them could yet decide it would be better for Britain to make the best of the bed it has now made for itself rather than pursuing the uncertain prospect of trying to reclaim its old one.
Even the terminally stupid Starmer is never going to have a referendum and then lose it.
The largest polls show about 58% for and 42% against. Excluding undecided.
https://www.whatukthinks.org/eu/opinion-polls/poll...
I personal do not think Starmer will risk a referenbum. EEA\EFTA far more likely without a referendum.
Your link said...More remain voters would now vote to stay out than Brexiteers would vote to rejoin...which is the opposite of 911hopes suggestion which just shows hope is all he has got.
As I said as long as Starmer does not do anything stupid like closer ties that limit our ability to decide our own future we will be good.
I have included a source which show the numbers who say they would rejoin are now a substantial majority. Excluding don't knows who after all don't know.
I suspect Starmer will do what is best for the UK. Since brexiters seem to have no idea on how to exploit the wonderful opportunities of brexit I expect he will seek much closer ties without actually rejoining.
. In particular, people appear to be a little less likely to say they would vote to (re-)join the EU than they are to say that they would vote Remain.
The words I have bolded lead to another page on the site entitled has brexit gone off the boil. Do you not even read past you own links headline?
Edited by Vanden Saab on Monday 4th March 07:58
Vanden Saab said:
blueg33 said:
VS can’t even see the irony
If Brexit was a success virtually no one would be considering rejoining!
Unfortunately there are far too many remainers who will never be able to admit they were wrong and will clutch at any straw they can. If Brexit was a success virtually no one would be considering rejoining!
Vanden Saab said:
Mrr T said:
Vanden Saab said:
Mrr T said:
Vanden Saab said:
911hope said:
Plenty of these 17.4m are no longer alive to reap the downsides.
Plenty of the 17.4 will admit to changing their minds.
Plenty will deny ever voting for the Brexit stupidity.
And yet support for rejoining the EU is dropping and there is absolutely no guarantee a second referendum would provide a rejoin result. It seems only a few of the more swivel eyed remainers still think it has made any difference economically and only an even smaller number of those see any benefit in rejoining...Plenty of the 17.4 will admit to changing their minds.
Plenty will deny ever voting for the Brexit stupidity.
As the benefits of Brexit start to work through and the EU fall further behind as we Brexiteers predicted those admitting they voted remain will also drop. The remainers only hope was to reverse the referendum result before people realised they were telling lies about the effects, that ship has now sailed.
John Curtice said:
First, it is far from certain that another referendum would produce a majority for re-joining. Despite widespread doubts about the benefits of Brexit, the anti-Brexit lead in the polls is not that large, differs between polling companies, and is far from invulnerable.
Second, much might rest in any referendum on the preferences of those who reckon Brexit has not made much difference. Seemingly many of them could yet decide it would be better for Britain to make the best of the bed it has now made for itself rather than pursuing the uncertain prospect of trying to reclaim its old one.
https://ukandeu.ac.uk/have-voters-cooled-on-the-pr...Second, much might rest in any referendum on the preferences of those who reckon Brexit has not made much difference. Seemingly many of them could yet decide it would be better for Britain to make the best of the bed it has now made for itself rather than pursuing the uncertain prospect of trying to reclaim its old one.
Even the terminally stupid Starmer is never going to have a referendum and then lose it.
The largest polls show about 58% for and 42% against. Excluding undecided.
https://www.whatukthinks.org/eu/opinion-polls/poll...
I personal do not think Starmer will risk a referenbum. EEA\EFTA far more likely without a referendum.
Your link said...More remain voters would now vote to stay out than Brexiteers would vote to rejoin...which is the opposite of 911hopes suggestion which just shows hope is all he has got.
As I said as long as Starmer does not do anything stupid like closer ties that limit our ability to decide our own future we will be good.
I have included a source which show the numbers who say they would rejoin are now a substantial majority. Excluding don't knows who after all don't know.
I suspect Starmer will do what is best for the UK. Since brexiters seem to have no idea on how to exploit the wonderful opportunities of brexit I expect he will seek much closer ties without actually rejoining.
. In particular, people appear to be a little less likely to say they would vote to (re-)join the EU than they are to say that they would vote Remain.
The words I have bolded lead to another page on the site entitled has brexit gone off the boil. Do you not even read past you own links headline?
Edited by Vanden Saab on Monday 4th March 07:58
Vanden Saab said:
blueg33 said:
VS can’t even see the irony
If Brexit was a success virtually no one would be considering rejoining!
Unfortunately there are far too many remainers who will never be able to admit they were wrong and will clutch at any straw they can. If Brexit was a success virtually no one would be considering rejoining!
Of course there are more brexiteers that now admit they were wrong. You, TB and a few others here are the hardcore, blinkered few who cannot accept reality even when it punches them on the nose and runs off with their wife
Ashfordian said:
Kermit power said:
What is the value of "taking back control" of our borders in a world where our ageing population means we need immigration to keep things working and all Brexit has succeeding in doing is driving away the Europeans whom the more Reform leaning might consider more "like us", meaning we need to let in more of those whom they might consider "invading hordes".
Still pushing your Ponzi population scheme nonsense.What a surprise that you are an aging ill-informed remoaner as well!
Firstly, lets consider the notion that this is "my" scheme?
I'm not sure whether you think I actually wrote these documents for the World Economic Forum, the IMF or the UK Parliament amongst many others or you just think I'm so influential that I've inspired them all to draw the same conclusions, but it's quite flattering either way, even if it is, of course, completely and utterly wrong!
Secondly, I'm really confused as to what age you think I am, or, for that matter, how you think age would influence someone's standpoint on it? Personally, I'll probably be alright either way. I've got a good job, I own my own home and when I do come to retire, I should have more than enough for a comfortable retirement in my pensions. If your definition of "ageing" means that I'm, at the point where I worry about what the future tax burden will be on my currently school-aged children when they reach middle age, then fine, I will consider myself "ageing" by your definition, if not by anyone else's.
You are, of course, entitled to believe that as part of my elaborate scam I have somehow persuaded entire countries such as Japan, Italy and Korea to act out a fictional portrayal of what might happen if our population actually were to keep ageing, but then I think you're into the same sort of area as fake moon landing conspiracy theorists trying to argue the notion that it would've been significantly harder to fake the whole thing and keep it quiet for 60 years than just to go to the moon!
You may also look at the WMF document in particular and think "hang on a minute! according to that, the UK isn't anything like as screwed as places like Spain, Italy, Germany, Japan and Korea whose working age populations as a percentage of the total are going to decline far faster than ours" and the good news is that you'd be right!!!
The inconvenient bad news, of course, is that that projection assumed continuing trends, which happen to include continued immigration!This all comes back to the same point. Pretty much every single publication you'll find from any reputable source you can think of shows that unless/until we can enable more people to have more babies (which in itself of course carries an 18-21 year lag before they reach the workforce) and/or work for a lot longer and retire on a lot less, then we're going to keep importing labour, so the whole "take back control" thing was a pointless fantasy because it'll never be used to reduce immigration.
blueg33 said:
Vanden Saab said:
blueg33 said:
VS can’t even see the irony
If Brexit was a success virtually no one would be considering rejoining!
Unfortunately there are far too many remainers who will never be able to admit they were wrong and will clutch at any straw they can. If Brexit was a success virtually no one would be considering rejoining!
Of course there are more brexiteers that now admit they were wrong. You, TB and a few others here are the hardcore, blinkered few who cannot accept reality even when it punches them on the nose and runs off with their wife
No wonder you think the way you do if you cannot even read numbers off a graph correctly.
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