Brexit - was it worth it? (Vol. 4)

[Wombat3]

chrispmartha said:

Wombat3 said:

chrispmartha said:

Wombat3 said:

The EU never do anything that is not fundamentally and primarily in their own interests.

Why wouldn’t they?

First principle of deal making: The only deal that endures is a win-win deal.

Maybe so, just shows how poor the UK’s negotiated Brexit deal was then as it was Lose - Lose.

Rule 2 is that both sides have to understand rule 1

[Terminator X]

S600BSB said:

Terminator X said:

CivicDuties said:

What we've done with Brexit is this. We've burnt down our house without an insurance policy in place, and are now rebuilding it, brick by brick, as and when we think we can afford a brick. Meanwhile, we're living in a tent in the garden.

It's been an absolutely pointless exercise, actually it's been worse than pointless.

You are free to leave and go to an EU country if life there is so amazing meanwhile 700k extra people a year added to this "tent in the garden" ...

TX.

TBF, life in many EU countries is now so much better than in broken Britain - climate, food, roads, railways, pretty much all public services… It’s a long list really!

If it's so bad Vs the EU why do we have a nett 700k more a year coming in then?

TX.

[Terminator X]

CivicDuties said:

Terminator X said:

CivicDuties said:

What we've done with Brexit is this. We've burnt down our house without an insurance policy in place, and are now rebuilding it, brick by brick, as and when we think we can afford a brick. Meanwhile, we're living in a tent in the garden.

It's been an absolutely pointless exercise, actually it's been worse than pointless.

You are free to leave and go to an EU country if life there is so amazing meanwhile 700k extra people a year added to this "tent in the garden" ...

TX.

Disgusting comment. Truly offensive. We are talking about differences of political opinion here, nothing more.

Grow up and learn some manners and tolerance.

As it happens, I am free to go and live in an EU country as I have an EU passport as well as a UK one, but I choose not to because this is where my life and my family and friends are on the whole, and I actually take pride in my country and want to work towards and contribute to its renewed success, which I hope will happen once we start rebuilding those important ties with our neighbours and partners, and once the current shambolic, scandal beset government is removed from office. You're not, though, I imagine. Neither are millions of people who would like that right in principle and had it removed without their consent. And you've got the nerve to post wavey smilies about it.

Edited by CivicDuties on Friday 19th April 14:10

Lol if you find that offensive perhaps best you never leave the house.

If I want to move to the EU I still can even with just a UK passport. How do you think people in non EU countries have managed for the last 50 years

TX.

[Mrr T]

Terminator X said:

S600BSB said:

Terminator X said:

CivicDuties said:

What we've done with Brexit is this. We've burnt down our house without an insurance policy in place, and are now rebuilding it, brick by brick, as and when we think we can afford a brick. Meanwhile, we're living in a tent in the garden.

It's been an absolutely pointless exercise, actually it's been worse than pointless.

You are free to leave and go to an EU country if life there is so amazing meanwhile 700k extra people a year added to this "tent in the garden" ...

TX.

TBF, life in many EU countries is now so much better than in broken Britain - climate, food, roads, railways, pretty much all public services… It’s a long list really!

If it's so bad Vs the EU why do we have a nett 700k more a year coming in then?

TX.

Maybe because we now offer work visas to many poor counties which do not have the option of working in the EU.

[cheesejunkie]

Terminator X said:

If it's so bad Vs the EU why do we have a nett 700k more a year coming in then?

TX.

Because we need immigration and it has doubled since brexit.

EU has immigrants too in case you haven't noticed, they need them too.

We're in a competition for immigration no matter what Farage tells you.

[Mrr T]

Terminator X said:

CivicDuties said:

Terminator X said:

CivicDuties said:

What we've done with Brexit is this. We've burnt down our house without an insurance policy in place, and are now rebuilding it, brick by brick, as and when we think we can afford a brick. Meanwhile, we're living in a tent in the garden.

It's been an absolutely pointless exercise, actually it's been worse than pointless.

You are free to leave and go to an EU country if life there is so amazing meanwhile 700k extra people a year added to this "tent in the garden" ...

TX.

Disgusting comment. Truly offensive. We are talking about differences of political opinion here, nothing more.

Grow up and learn some manners and tolerance.

As it happens, I am free to go and live in an EU country as I have an EU passport as well as a UK one, but I choose not to because this is where my life and my family and friends are on the whole, and I actually take pride in my country and want to work towards and contribute to its renewed success, which I hope will happen once we start rebuilding those important ties with our neighbours and partners, and once the current shambolic, scandal beset government is removed from office. You're not, though, I imagine. Neither are millions of people who would like that right in principle and had it removed without their consent. And you've got the nerve to post wavey smilies about it.

Edited by CivicDuties on Friday 19th April 14:10

Lol if you find that offensive perhaps best you never leave the house.

If I want to move to the EU I still can even with just a UK passport. How do you think people in non EU countries have managed for the last 50 years

TX.

You can but it's far from easy. I know I now live in the EU and though my wife is an EU citizen it not straightforward. Further if we wanted to move EU country I have to go though a different set of rules.

[crankedup5]

cheesejunkie said:

Terminator X said:

If it's so bad Vs the EU why do we have a nett 700k more a year coming in then?

TX.

Because we need immigration and it has doubled since brexit.

EU has immigrants too in case you haven't noticed, they need them too.

We're in a competition for immigration no matter what Farage tells you.

With 5 million in the U.K. not going to work and drawing benefits instead, I suppose somebodies got to do the work. Or maybe let’s get some of those 5 million back to work earning cash instead of receiving benefits.

[S600BSB]

Mrr T said:

Terminator X said:

CivicDuties said:

Terminator X said:

CivicDuties said:

What we've done with Brexit is this. We've burnt down our house without an insurance policy in place, and are now rebuilding it, brick by brick, as and when we think we can afford a brick. Meanwhile, we're living in a tent in the garden.

It's been an absolutely pointless exercise, actually it's been worse than pointless.

You are free to leave and go to an EU country if life there is so amazing meanwhile 700k extra people a year added to this "tent in the garden" ...

TX.

Disgusting comment. Truly offensive. We are talking about differences of political opinion here, nothing more.

Grow up and learn some manners and tolerance.

As it happens, I am free to go and live in an EU country as I have an EU passport as well as a UK one, but I choose not to because this is where my life and my family and friends are on the whole, and I actually take pride in my country and want to work towards and contribute to its renewed success, which I hope will happen once we start rebuilding those important ties with our neighbours and partners, and once the current shambolic, scandal beset government is removed from office. You're not, though, I imagine. Neither are millions of people who would like that right in principle and had it removed without their consent. And you've got the nerve to post wavey smilies about it.

Edited by CivicDuties on Friday 19th April 14:10

Lol if you find that offensive perhaps best you never leave the house.

If I want to move to the EU I still can even with just a UK passport. How do you think people in non EU countries have managed for the last 50 years

TX.

You can but it's far from easy. I know I now live in the EU and though my wife is an EU citizen it not straightforward. Further if we wanted to move EU country I have to go though a different set of rules.

In view what he types, I somehow think he would also lack the required language skills to get through the necessary hoops. Ireland perhaps?

[732NM]

cheesejunkie said:

Plenty would like to work in the UK. It's not arrogant to realise that we're a country where people would like to work and that we have employers that need them. It's arrogant to think we can pick and choose at a micromanaged level. It's dumb as nuts to think the government and civil service can manage it better than employers offering jobs.

Every developed nation, including EU member states, have government setting the rules on immigration and civil servants implementing those rules.

If you wish to migrate to the USA, you have to go through the process the USA government chose to implement with their civil servants enforcing those rules. Same for Japan, Australia, Switzerland, Canada..............

Immigration rules set by government is the normal arrangement.

[cheesejunkie]

crankedup5 said:

With 5 million in the U.K. not going to work and drawing benefits instead, I suppose somebodies got to do the work. Or maybe let’s get some of those 5 million back to work earning cash instead of receiving benefits.

How many are going to work and drawing benefits due to a low wage economy preserving fat holes.

I'm guessing you're not doing the work BTW.

[cheesejunkie]

732NM said:

Every developed nation, including EU member states, have government setting the rules on immigration and civil servants implementing those rules.

If you wish to migrate to the USA, you have to go through the process the USA government chose to implement with their civil servants enforcing those rules. Same for Japan, Australia, Switzerland, Canada..............

Immigration rules set by government is the normal arrangement.

Yes, and EU member states do too. Not the EU, the member states. Think about that for a second among the noise. It's possible for EU member states to control immigration. The UK chose to be more lax than some other members because it worked to our advantage. Depends on who you're talking about I realise. There was always the option to make them more restrictive within the EU.

The UK chose to make free movement an open door. It didn't have to be. Post leaving the EU there's a more open door to immigration. People who voted brexit based on immigration have lost and are never going to win. It's not the way the world works.

The same people who chose not to use the available immigration restrictions within the EU are choosing not to use them when out of the EU. You'd be a dumb fool to think they would. Get used to disappointment if you think leaving the EU means less immigration.

I post on this thread. But I don't have the energy to care really. What's done is done. But it does annoy me that those defending brexit have yet to produce a concrete benefit. Immigration control is obviously not one given the numbers.

[crankedup5]

cheesejunkie said:

crankedup5 said:

With 5 million in the U.K. not going to work and drawing benefits instead, I suppose somebodies got to do the work. Or maybe let’s get some of those 5 million back to work earning cash instead of receiving benefits.

How many are going to work and drawing benefits due to a low wage economy preserving fat holes.

I'm guessing you're not doing the work BTW.

It’s those that are drawing sick note money, it’s about two half million at moment.
Another two half million decided work not worth while.
I agree that our low wage economy is being helped along with in work benefits, how many I don’t know, lots.

[732NM]

cheesejunkie said:

732NM said:

Every developed nation, including EU member states, have government setting the rules on immigration and civil servants implementing those rules.

If you wish to migrate to the USA, you have to go through the process the USA government chose to implement with their civil servants enforcing those rules. Same for Japan, Australia, Switzerland, Canada..............

Immigration rules set by government is the normal arrangement.

Yes, and EU member states do too. Not the EU, the member states. Think about that for a second among the noise. It's possible for EU member states to control immigration. The UK chose to be more lax than some other members because it worked to our advantage. Depends on who you're talking about I realise. There was always the option to make them more restrictive within the EU.

The UK chose to make free movement an open door. It didn't have to be. Post leaving the EU there's a more open door to immigration. People who voted brexit based on immigration have lost and are never going to win. It's not the way the world works.

The same people who chose not to use the available immigration restrictions within the EU are choosing not to use them when out of the EU. You'd be a dumb fool to think they would. Get used to disappointment if you think leaving the EU means less immigration.

I post on this thread. But I don't have the energy to care really. What's done is done. But it does annoy me that those defending brexit have yet to produce a concrete benefit. Immigration control is obviously not one given the numbers.

Maybe you should slow down and read what i wrote, words 4 through 7.

For someone with no energy you certainly wasted a lot in your rush to type.

[cheesejunkie]

732NM said:

Maybe you should slow down and read what i wrote, words 4 through 7.

For someone with no energy you certainly wasted a lot in your rush to type.

I like the sound of my own voice rather than yours

The UK has willingly created friction. Offers around Erasmus, youth visas etc are being shot down. The UK is willingly creating friction. But has an open door policy on the far side.

It hasn't explained why. But we know why. Daily wail cranked types.

There is no pool of sick note employees ready to fill the gap. I'd vote for removing all pension entitlements including private savings from those complaining about the youth not working. I'm joking, But some should take the plank out of their eye.

[732NM]

cheesejunkie said:

I like the sound of my own voice rather than yours

The UK has willingly created friction. Offers around Erasmus, youth visas etc are being shot down. The UK is willingly creating friction. But has an open door policy on the far side.

It hasn't explained why. But we know why. Daily wail cranked types.

There is no pool of sick note employees ready to fill the gap. I'd vote for removing all pension entitlements including private savings from those complaining about the youth not working. I'm joking, But some should take the plank out of their eye.

You are rambling.

[cheesejunkie]

732NM said:

You are rambling.

Yes. All over the show.

Partly because I was trying to reply to you and cranked in one shot.

fk it.

Specifics.

I agree, immigration rules set by government are the norm. That happens in the EU. There are some limitations but governments set their restrictions. The UK chose to explicitly support maximum freedom of movement. The fools thinking that the same people who supported that are going to clamp down on it due to brexit are suckers who fell for a con.

Cranked believes there's a mountain of people on the sick who can fill the gaps. There isn't. They're on the sick for a reason. Arguably it could be reduced with better health care but that would cost money he'd not support spending. So we're doomed to seeking immigration to preserve the standard of life of cranky old pensioners.

[crankedup5]

cheesejunkie said:

732NM said:

You are rambling.

Yes. All over the show.

Partly because I was trying to reply to you and cranked in one shot.

fk it.

Specifics.

I agree, immigration rules set by government are the norm. That happens in the EU. There are some limitations but governments set their restrictions. The UK chose to explicitly support maximum freedom of movement. The fools thinking that the same people who supported that are going to clamp down on it due to brexit are suckers who fell for a con.

Cranked believes there's a mountain of people on the sick who can fill the gaps. There isn't. They're on the sick for a reason. Arguably it could be reduced with better health care but that would cost money he'd not support spending. So we're doomed to seeking immigration to preserve the standard of life of cranky old pensioners.

That would be two half million on long term sick leave which is unsustainable, simple as that. Government proposal that will re-evaluate the conditions of these people and assess what they are capable of doing rather than simply write them off at huge cost to the Country and the people themselves.
Of course a percentage of these people will not be able to join the workforce until they have medical treatment required, nobody is suggesting that those involved will be forced back into work.At the same time those that are capable of some type of work will be encouraged into that work.
Wether this policy proposal will ever come to fruition, who knows.

[crankedup5]

cheesejunkie said:

732NM said:

You are rambling.

Yes. All over the show.

Partly because I was trying to reply to you and cranked in one shot.

fk it.

Specifics.

I agree, immigration rules set by government are the norm. That happens in the EU. There are some limitations but governments set their restrictions. The UK chose to explicitly support maximum freedom of movement. The fools thinking that the same people who supported that are going to clamp down on it due to brexit are suckers who fell for a con.

Cranked believes there's a mountain of people on the sick who can fill the gaps. There isn't. They're on the sick for a reason. Arguably it could be reduced with better health care but that would cost money he'd not support spending. So we're doomed to seeking immigration to preserve the standard of life of cranky old pensioners.

Projecting onto other posters (me on this occasion) what you want to believe is a desperate and pointless act. Take a breath and think it over.

[cheesejunkie]

crankedup5 said:

Projecting onto other posters (me on this occasion) what you want to believe is a desperate and pointless act. Take a breath and think it over.

I'm not projecting crank. I think you've unrealistic expectations.

I'm not sure your figures are correct, I've reason to think they're wrong. But I'll not dilute the point. Brexit is not going to result in UK workers filling the gaps for those that used to come from the EU. No amount of bullst talk around work numbers is going to change that. Get used to screwing many industries. Because that's what you're supporting. You're not helping by implying they should recruit brits.

Honestly, I have taken a breath and am not up tight. I'm a biased but attempting to be impartial observer. I wish some of you would give it a go, you're too invested in the decision you've made and attempting to defend it in cases where it's not working. A better solution would be admit Brexit's done, deal with it honestly and not the fantasy land ste where the EU give the UK Cale and lets them eat it at the same time.

[wisbech]

Joke (cartoon) in German newspaper recently - "If you want to know what life was like in East Germany, take a holiday in England"