Brexit - was it worth it? (Vol. 4)
Discussion
HM-2 said:
Vanden Saab said:
James6112 said:
It’s still a total disaster
Zero benefits
You were played by Johnson & his chums, where are they now? History.
We told you so…
Come on now you Berxiteers, deliver something, You can’t.
More than half of the population have no interest in making it work.
Hopefully Starmers illogical noises are just a ruse to ensure total tory wipeout. When he inevitably wins a large majority he will change tack & focus upon closer ties with the eu.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/remainers-ex...Zero benefits
You were played by Johnson & his chums, where are they now? History.
We told you so…
Come on now you Berxiteers, deliver something, You can’t.
More than half of the population have no interest in making it work.
Hopefully Starmers illogical noises are just a ruse to ensure total tory wipeout. When he inevitably wins a large majority he will change tack & focus upon closer ties with the eu.
CBI boss said:
CBI boss Tony Danker has slammed Remainers for "false advocacy", rejecting calls to rejoin the European Union. The Director General of the Confederation of British Industry said he does not "advocate" for rejoining the EU, saying the UK's leave vote was a "choice made by the British people to say we want to be sovereign". He dismissed the suggestion that the UK economy won't be able to "thrive again" after Brexit, describing it as being "false bits of advocacy"
He must have been reading this thread.
Besides, I don't think James6112 ever mentioned rejoining, did he?
Vasco said:
So, they just make matters worse - and then have the cheek to blame others.
"Brexit is a failure and it's all remainers fault" again 
gotoPzero said:
I am currently in France, frankly I think the UK is doing pretty well.
Food is crazy expensive, £10 for a pack of mince, £12+ for a chicken. A couple of nice steaks you can easily spend £30. Fruit and veg is eye watering, half a dozen apples £4. Similar for pears. Oranges £5-6 for a small bag. The only thing thats "cheap" is bread and wine and even then the wine is not much cheaper than the UK. Our weekly shop here is £150 ish I would say. In the UK its less than £100 probably close on £80.
Fuel is £1.80/L, over £2 on the motorways. Electric is cheaper though, by about 25% I would say.
Most restaurants open for 2 to 3 hours in the evening maybe 4 or 5 nights a week. Fast food like Mcdonalds (not all but some) close at 7pm. £1.19 cheese burger in the UK is £4 in France.
Power cuts are not unusual we have had 2 in the last 3 weeks. Internet also went down for 3 days. Post is twice weekly. Bins emptied every 3-4 weeks, if they turn up. You have to take a lot of recyclable stuff yourself to a local town drop off point.
Getting anything done needs planning, most shops and retail places shut for 2 hours in the middle of the day but at variable times. Not open particularly late either, most stuff is shut between 6 and 7pm. Speed cameras and police absolutely everywhere, I am in the middle of no where and obviously crime is pretty low so the local police set up speed traps most days. Speed limit signs are sometimes very lacking. National limit has been reduced to 50mph in rural areas. Very little allowance for speeding and its a 70 euro on the spot fine.
The UK is a not doing bad. Not particularly expensive, access to most businesses 7 days a week, good services and you want a pizza at 1am then no problem. Order something online and it arrives next day. Etc etc.
If the UK could sort out its crime problem and make the roads smooth like here in France I think we would have it pretty good!!
Those things have always been that way in France. I've been travelling and/or living there for 50 years and you could have said the same at any time in that period (except for Mcdonalds and speeding)Food is crazy expensive, £10 for a pack of mince, £12+ for a chicken. A couple of nice steaks you can easily spend £30. Fruit and veg is eye watering, half a dozen apples £4. Similar for pears. Oranges £5-6 for a small bag. The only thing thats "cheap" is bread and wine and even then the wine is not much cheaper than the UK. Our weekly shop here is £150 ish I would say. In the UK its less than £100 probably close on £80.
Fuel is £1.80/L, over £2 on the motorways. Electric is cheaper though, by about 25% I would say.
Most restaurants open for 2 to 3 hours in the evening maybe 4 or 5 nights a week. Fast food like Mcdonalds (not all but some) close at 7pm. £1.19 cheese burger in the UK is £4 in France.
Power cuts are not unusual we have had 2 in the last 3 weeks. Internet also went down for 3 days. Post is twice weekly. Bins emptied every 3-4 weeks, if they turn up. You have to take a lot of recyclable stuff yourself to a local town drop off point.
Getting anything done needs planning, most shops and retail places shut for 2 hours in the middle of the day but at variable times. Not open particularly late either, most stuff is shut between 6 and 7pm. Speed cameras and police absolutely everywhere, I am in the middle of no where and obviously crime is pretty low so the local police set up speed traps most days. Speed limit signs are sometimes very lacking. National limit has been reduced to 50mph in rural areas. Very little allowance for speeding and its a 70 euro on the spot fine.
The UK is a not doing bad. Not particularly expensive, access to most businesses 7 days a week, good services and you want a pizza at 1am then no problem. Order something online and it arrives next day. Etc etc.
If the UK could sort out its crime problem and make the roads smooth like here in France I think we would have it pretty good!!
.
They are quite different culturally around those sort of things and their tax base is higher. Generally they have better roads, better public realm, more diverse retail, more diverse hospitality etc.
Again its been like that for years.
These things are not Brexit or EU related TBH.
blueg33 said:
sugerbear said:
Your regular reminder (for the true believer)
The EU wont be around in 12 months.
It's all the fault of Remoaners.
It's not the Brexit we voted for
It's all the fault of the EU
Sovereignty!!!
You missedThe EU wont be around in 12 months.
It's all the fault of Remoaners.
It's not the Brexit we voted for
It's all the fault of the EU
Sovereignty!!!
Business leaders don't know what they are doing
War in Ukraine
Pandemic
Murph7355 said:
Globally we went from 5th to 10th between 1992 and 2015...
https://unctad.org/topic/trade-analysis/chart-10-m...
The UK exports less than Belgium, a country of 11 million people. That's a terrifying statistic. https://unctad.org/topic/trade-analysis/chart-10-m...
crankedup5 said:
blueg33 said:
sugerbear said:
Your regular reminder (for the true believer)
The EU wont be around in 12 months.
It's all the fault of Remoaners.
It's not the Brexit we voted for
It's all the fault of the EU
Sovereignty!!!
You missedThe EU wont be around in 12 months.
It's all the fault of Remoaners.
It's not the Brexit we voted for
It's all the fault of the EU
Sovereignty!!!
Business leaders don't know what they are doing
War in Ukraine
Pandemic
The full list. keep those benefits / excuses coming.
The EU wont be around in 12 months.
It's all the fault of Remoaners.
It's not the Brexit we voted for
It's all the fault of the EU
Sovereignty!!!
Business leaders don't know what they are doing (incompetent and unable to understand their new markets)
War in Ukraine
Pandemic
We now control our own borders (if you think our border starts at the French coast and by control you mean expecting the French to do it for us).
We now control immigration (best not mention it has increased).
Lazy British people not taking the jobs (that they are either unqualified for - i.e. surgeons/doctors/airline pilots - or over qualified for - turnip pickers / toilet cleaners / hospitality)
Jobs for the British worker (famous for being the most *productive in the world)
- un
gotoPzero said:
I am currently in France, frankly I think the UK is doing pretty well.
Food is crazy expensive, £10 for a pack of mince, £12+ for a chicken. A couple of nice steaks you can easily spend £30. Fruit and veg is eye watering, half a dozen apples £4. Similar for pears. Oranges £5-6 for a small bag. The only thing thats "cheap" is bread and wine and even then the wine is not much cheaper than the UK. Our weekly shop here is £150 ish I would say. In the UK its less than £100 probably close on £80.
Fuel is £1.80/L, over £2 on the motorways. Electric is cheaper though, by about 25% I would say.
These prices are nonsense. Food is crazy expensive, £10 for a pack of mince, £12+ for a chicken. A couple of nice steaks you can easily spend £30. Fruit and veg is eye watering, half a dozen apples £4. Similar for pears. Oranges £5-6 for a small bag. The only thing thats "cheap" is bread and wine and even then the wine is not much cheaper than the UK. Our weekly shop here is £150 ish I would say. In the UK its less than £100 probably close on £80.
Fuel is £1.80/L, over £2 on the motorways. Electric is cheaper though, by about 25% I would say.
For a start, electricity in France is about 1/3 the price of the UK. Current rate is 12p/kwh vs 35p in the UK.
At my local Carrefour:
Oranges €0.99 a kilo
Apples €1.74 a kilo
Pears €1.99 a kilo
sugerbear said:
crankedup5 said:
blueg33 said:
sugerbear said:
Your regular reminder (for the true believer)
The EU wont be around in 12 months.
It's all the fault of Remoaners.
It's not the Brexit we voted for
It's all the fault of the EU
Sovereignty!!!
You missedThe EU wont be around in 12 months.
It's all the fault of Remoaners.
It's not the Brexit we voted for
It's all the fault of the EU
Sovereignty!!!
Business leaders don't know what they are doing
War in Ukraine
Pandemic
The full list. keep those benefits / excuses coming.
The EU wont be around in 12 months.
It's all the fault of Remoaners.
It's not the Brexit we voted for
It's all the fault of the EU
Sovereignty!!!
Business leaders don't know what they are doing (incompetent and unable to understand their new markets)
War in Ukraine
Pandemic
We now control our own borders (if you think our border starts at the French coast and by control you mean expecting the French to do it for us).
We now control immigration (best not mention it has increased).
Lazy British people not taking the jobs (that they are either unqualified for - i.e. surgeons/doctors/airline pilots - or over qualified for - turnip pickers / toilet cleaners / hospitality)
Jobs for the British worker (famous for being the most *productive in the world)
- un
We have almost full employment together with rapid expansion of pharma, sciences, bio-med and tech. Our financial services are strong and tourism is another winner.
I agree that illegal immigration is a problem which needs sorting urgently, but why do you think that
these people risk life and limb to get here?
Do you seriously believe that the pandemic has not had a massive impact upon the U.K. If so why?
I don’t see British people as being lazy at all, however the low end of the pay scale work, some you mention, are certainly jobs which have zero appeal in terms of, well just about everything tbh.
blueg33 said:
gotoPzero said:
I am currently in France, frankly I think the UK is doing pretty well.
Food is crazy expensive, £10 for a pack of mince, £12+ for a chicken. A couple of nice steaks you can easily spend £30. Fruit and veg is eye watering, half a dozen apples £4. Similar for pears. Oranges £5-6 for a small bag. The only thing thats "cheap" is bread and wine and even then the wine is not much cheaper than the UK. Our weekly shop here is £150 ish I would say. In the UK its less than £100 probably close on £80.
Fuel is £1.80/L, over £2 on the motorways. Electric is cheaper though, by about 25% I would say.
Most restaurants open for 2 to 3 hours in the evening maybe 4 or 5 nights a week. Fast food like Mcdonalds (not all but some) close at 7pm. £1.19 cheese burger in the UK is £4 in France.
Power cuts are not unusual we have had 2 in the last 3 weeks. Internet also went down for 3 days. Post is twice weekly. Bins emptied every 3-4 weeks, if they turn up. You have to take a lot of recyclable stuff yourself to a local town drop off point.
Getting anything done needs planning, most shops and retail places shut for 2 hours in the middle of the day but at variable times. Not open particularly late either, most stuff is shut between 6 and 7pm. Speed cameras and police absolutely everywhere, I am in the middle of no where and obviously crime is pretty low so the local police set up speed traps most days. Speed limit signs are sometimes very lacking. National limit has been reduced to 50mph in rural areas. Very little allowance for speeding and its a 70 euro on the spot fine.
The UK is a not doing bad. Not particularly expensive, access to most businesses 7 days a week, good services and you want a pizza at 1am then no problem. Order something online and it arrives next day. Etc etc.
If the UK could sort out its crime problem and make the roads smooth like here in France I think we would have it pretty good!!
Those things have always been that way in France. I've been travelling and/or living there for 50 years and you could have said the same at any time in that period (except for Mcdonalds and speeding)Food is crazy expensive, £10 for a pack of mince, £12+ for a chicken. A couple of nice steaks you can easily spend £30. Fruit and veg is eye watering, half a dozen apples £4. Similar for pears. Oranges £5-6 for a small bag. The only thing thats "cheap" is bread and wine and even then the wine is not much cheaper than the UK. Our weekly shop here is £150 ish I would say. In the UK its less than £100 probably close on £80.
Fuel is £1.80/L, over £2 on the motorways. Electric is cheaper though, by about 25% I would say.
Most restaurants open for 2 to 3 hours in the evening maybe 4 or 5 nights a week. Fast food like Mcdonalds (not all but some) close at 7pm. £1.19 cheese burger in the UK is £4 in France.
Power cuts are not unusual we have had 2 in the last 3 weeks. Internet also went down for 3 days. Post is twice weekly. Bins emptied every 3-4 weeks, if they turn up. You have to take a lot of recyclable stuff yourself to a local town drop off point.
Getting anything done needs planning, most shops and retail places shut for 2 hours in the middle of the day but at variable times. Not open particularly late either, most stuff is shut between 6 and 7pm. Speed cameras and police absolutely everywhere, I am in the middle of no where and obviously crime is pretty low so the local police set up speed traps most days. Speed limit signs are sometimes very lacking. National limit has been reduced to 50mph in rural areas. Very little allowance for speeding and its a 70 euro on the spot fine.
The UK is a not doing bad. Not particularly expensive, access to most businesses 7 days a week, good services and you want a pizza at 1am then no problem. Order something online and it arrives next day. Etc etc.
If the UK could sort out its crime problem and make the roads smooth like here in France I think we would have it pretty good!!
.
They are quite different culturally around those sort of things and their tax base is higher. Generally they have better roads, better public realm, more diverse retail, more diverse hospitality etc.
Again its been like that for years.
These things are not Brexit or EU related TBH.
crankedup5 said:
You must live in a very sad place if you truly believe what you have posted.
We have almost full employment together with rapid expansion of pharma, sciences, bio-med and tech. Our financial services are strong and tourism is another winner.
I agree that illegal immigration is a problem which needs sorting urgently, but why do you think that
these people risk life and limb to get here?
Do you seriously believe that the pandemic has not had a massive impact upon the U.K. If so why?
I don’t see British people as being lazy at all, however the low end of the pay scale work, some you mention, are certainly jobs which have zero appeal in terms of, well just about everything tbh.
I’m not doubting everything you’re coming out with there Crankie, but I can’t find clear evidence of the expansion you’re talking about, any reputable links would be appreciated. We have almost full employment together with rapid expansion of pharma, sciences, bio-med and tech. Our financial services are strong and tourism is another winner.
I agree that illegal immigration is a problem which needs sorting urgently, but why do you think that
these people risk life and limb to get here?
Do you seriously believe that the pandemic has not had a massive impact upon the U.K. If so why?
I don’t see British people as being lazy at all, however the low end of the pay scale work, some you mention, are certainly jobs which have zero appeal in terms of, well just about everything tbh.
In terms of where we are economically, the latest LSE report puts the cost to the U.K. at 5.5% of GDP, based on a comparative model against countries whose economies have performed similarly in the past. They posit that the big hits have been an 11% drop in investment, declining trade and fall in EU immigration which is hitting numerous sectors.
We also have the hangover effect of the disastrous Truss budget, one that was hailed by Brexiteers as the first truly Tory budget in decades, the current cost to the economy is estimated at over £30bn. That Brexit pipe dream has left the country with a higher tax burden and higher borrowing at a higher cost.
On top of all of this we now have the threat of tearing up every EU law by the end of the year, making planning and investment for already struggling U.K. businesses ever more difficult. The political chop, change and uncertainty makes doing business in the U.K. much harder, whichever side of the fence you sit on. We need to restore confidence in the U.K. threatening to rip up agreements we negotiated only a few years ago and as a consequence start a trade war with the EU and antagonise the US does nothing to inspire confidence in your political processes, the sanity of our leaders or our economic prospects. It really is time throw these idiots out and start afresh and that doesn’t mean rejoining, just rethinking.
crankedup5 said:
We have almost full employment
If ever there was an argument for opening up borders to people from our nearest neighbours, that is it. Couple that with an aging population then economic growth will be virtually impossible without increasing the workforce.Edited by blueg33 on Tuesday 24th January 13:24
Amateurish said:
gotoPzero said:
I am currently in France, frankly I think the UK is doing pretty well.
Food is crazy expensive, £10 for a pack of mince, £12+ for a chicken. A couple of nice steaks you can easily spend £30. Fruit and veg is eye watering, half a dozen apples £4. Similar for pears. Oranges £5-6 for a small bag. The only thing thats "cheap" is bread and wine and even then the wine is not much cheaper than the UK. Our weekly shop here is £150 ish I would say. In the UK its less than £100 probably close on £80.
Fuel is £1.80/L, over £2 on the motorways. Electric is cheaper though, by about 25% I would say.
These prices are nonsense. Food is crazy expensive, £10 for a pack of mince, £12+ for a chicken. A couple of nice steaks you can easily spend £30. Fruit and veg is eye watering, half a dozen apples £4. Similar for pears. Oranges £5-6 for a small bag. The only thing thats "cheap" is bread and wine and even then the wine is not much cheaper than the UK. Our weekly shop here is £150 ish I would say. In the UK its less than £100 probably close on £80.
Fuel is £1.80/L, over £2 on the motorways. Electric is cheaper though, by about 25% I would say.
For a start, electricity in France is about 1/3 the price of the UK. Current rate is 12p/kwh vs 35p in the UK.
At my local Carrefour:
Oranges €0.99 a kilo
Apples €1.74 a kilo
Pears €1.99 a kilo
t. 
M.
HM-2 said:
Murph7355 said:
Globally we went from 5th to 10th between 1992 and 2015...
https://unctad.org/topic/trade-analysis/chart-10-m...
The UK exports less than Belgium, a country of 11 million people. That's a terrifying statistic. https://unctad.org/topic/trade-analysis/chart-10-m...
I also wonder whether all is as it seems with the Belgian figures too.
That said, I agree we should be looking to export more. Along with massively improving productivity.
I guess what the figures that were posted highlight is that these things are nothing new. Being in the EU didn't fix these things, leaving it won't either. Out own f
kwit politicians need to step up to do that 
(Leaving the EU fkwit politicians to argue over QMV).(Last time I looked, our BoT had actually improved recently... I thi k that's another important metric. But not the only one).
Amateurish said:
gotoPzero said:
I am currently in France, frankly I think the UK is doing pretty well.
Food is crazy expensive, £10 for a pack of mince, £12+ for a chicken. A couple of nice steaks you can easily spend £30. Fruit and veg is eye watering, half a dozen apples £4. Similar for pears. Oranges £5-6 for a small bag. The only thing thats "cheap" is bread and wine and even then the wine is not much cheaper than the UK. Our weekly shop here is £150 ish I would say. In the UK its less than £100 probably close on £80.
Fuel is £1.80/L, over £2 on the motorways. Electric is cheaper though, by about 25% I would say.
These prices are nonsense. Food is crazy expensive, £10 for a pack of mince, £12+ for a chicken. A couple of nice steaks you can easily spend £30. Fruit and veg is eye watering, half a dozen apples £4. Similar for pears. Oranges £5-6 for a small bag. The only thing thats "cheap" is bread and wine and even then the wine is not much cheaper than the UK. Our weekly shop here is £150 ish I would say. In the UK its less than £100 probably close on £80.
Fuel is £1.80/L, over £2 on the motorways. Electric is cheaper though, by about 25% I would say.
For a start, electricity in France is about 1/3 the price of the UK. Current rate is 12p/kwh vs 35p in the UK.
At my local Carrefour:
Oranges €0.99 a kilo
Apples €1.74 a kilo
Pears €1.99 a kilo
I was there between Christmas and New Year. Food was very expensive. Petrol actually about the same as here (on motorways and not).
Blue62 said:
crankedup5 said:
You must live in a very sad place if you truly believe what you have posted.
We have almost full employment together with rapid expansion of pharma, sciences, bio-med and tech. Our financial services are strong and tourism is another winner.
I agree that illegal immigration is a problem which needs sorting urgently, but why do you think that
these people risk life and limb to get here?
Do you seriously believe that the pandemic has not had a massive impact upon the U.K. If so why?
I don’t see British people as being lazy at all, however the low end of the pay scale work, some you mention, are certainly jobs which have zero appeal in terms of, well just about everything tbh.
I’m not doubting everything you’re coming out with there Crankie, but I can’t find clear evidence of the expansion you’re talking about, any reputable links would be appreciated. We have almost full employment together with rapid expansion of pharma, sciences, bio-med and tech. Our financial services are strong and tourism is another winner.
I agree that illegal immigration is a problem which needs sorting urgently, but why do you think that
these people risk life and limb to get here?
Do you seriously believe that the pandemic has not had a massive impact upon the U.K. If so why?
I don’t see British people as being lazy at all, however the low end of the pay scale work, some you mention, are certainly jobs which have zero appeal in terms of, well just about everything tbh.
In terms of where we are economically, the latest LSE report puts the cost to the U.K. at 5.5% of GDP, based on a comparative model against countries whose economies have performed similarly in the past. They posit that the big hits have been an 11% drop in investment, declining trade and fall in EU immigration which is hitting numerous sectors.
We also have the hangover effect of the disastrous Truss budget, one that was hailed by Brexiteers as the first truly Tory budget in decades, the current cost to the economy is estimated at over £30bn. That Brexit pipe dream has left the country with a higher tax burden and higher borrowing at a higher cost.
On top of all of this we now have the threat of tearing up every EU law by the end of the year, making planning and investment for already struggling U.K. businesses ever more difficult. The political chop, change and uncertainty makes doing business in the U.K. much harder, whichever side of the fence you sit on. We need to restore confidence in the U.K. threatening to rip up agreements we negotiated only a few years ago and as a consequence start a trade war with the EU and antagonise the US does nothing to inspire confidence in your political processes, the sanity of our leaders or our economic prospects. It really is time throw these idiots out and start afresh and that doesn’t mean rejoining, just rethinking.
I fully agree that we do need dedicated competence from Government in re-building our economic fortunes. Wether we will see this from a very likely incoming Labour Government remains to be seen. Certainly the U.K. is not a strong manufacturing base, having been run down over the past decades, certainly during my lifetime I’ve seen it.
HM-2 said:
crankedup5 said:
We have almost full employment
Complete and utter myth.To say ‘complete and utter myth’ is disingenuous.
blueg33 said:
crankedup5 said:
We have almost full employment
If ever there was an argument for opening up borders to people from our nearest neighbours, that is it. Couple that with an aging population then economic growth will be virtually impossible without increasing the workforce.Edited by blueg33 on Tuesday 24th January 13:24
Many economies are currently struggling to find labour to fill vacancies, it’s not a problem confined to UK
Mortarboard said:
crankedup5 said:
We have almost full employment together with rapid expansion of pharma, sciences, bio-med and tech.
Eh, no, there's no rapid expansion of those industries in the UK.M.
I would invite you to visit East Anglia the hub of expansion of these industries.(I can’t promise a lunch out though
)Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff