Trans woman convicted rapist sent to female prison
Discussion
Biggy Stardust said:
I'm a very long way from being one of the PH liberals.
OTOH I see it this way: anyone who's been sufficiently naughty to finish up in prison doesn't deserve massive concern.
I understand about duty of care, etc., but feel that such duty is massively diminished for criminals convicted of something sufficiently serious that a custodial sentence has been deemed necessary, especially in view of the incredible reluctance to imprison women.
In short, if they commit the crimes then I'm not hugely fussed about their welfare.
Not everyone in prison is guilty of committing any crimes. Miscarriages of justice are still a regular occurrence.OTOH I see it this way: anyone who's been sufficiently naughty to finish up in prison doesn't deserve massive concern.
I understand about duty of care, etc., but feel that such duty is massively diminished for criminals convicted of something sufficiently serious that a custodial sentence has been deemed necessary, especially in view of the incredible reluctance to imprison women.
In short, if they commit the crimes then I'm not hugely fussed about their welfare.
There will be a large number of prisoners held in prison who are on remand awaiting trail. Some of these will be found ‘Not Guilty’ at their trail.
There are a large number of prisoners who have been recalled to prison for breaking sometimes the most ridiculous of licence conditions.
There are a large number of prisoners who are inside because there isn’t the mental health facilities elsewhere to hold them.
There are a large number of prisoners who purposely commit low-level crimes to get incarcerated on purpose because they are otherwise homeless.
There are a large number of people incarcerated because they were at the wrong place at the wrong time. Regular Joes, just like you.
Probably only around 70% of the 90’000+ prisoners are actually incarcerated because they’re a bad egg.
With this information in mind, perhaps you’d care to reconsider your viewpoints?
HM-2 said:
From aforementioned BBC link:
"BBC Scotland understands Bryson is being sent to Cornton Vale women's prison in Stirling but will not be held alongside the jail's general population."
So...sorry but where's the issue? If the concern is that the individual poses a threat to biological women, surely the fact they're not being kept with the general population mitigates that? Yet another storm in a teacup to get the ruddy-faced apoplectic with rage at the state of society today, innit.
What personal experience do you have of the Segregation Units in prisons?"BBC Scotland understands Bryson is being sent to Cornton Vale women's prison in Stirling but will not be held alongside the jail's general population."
So...sorry but where's the issue? If the concern is that the individual poses a threat to biological women, surely the fact they're not being kept with the general population mitigates that? Yet another storm in a teacup to get the ruddy-faced apoplectic with rage at the state of society today, innit.
What personal experience do you have of how long a prisoner can be held down ‘the Seg’ if their general behaviour warrants a move onto the Wings, whether it be onto ‘the numbers’ or onto ‘general pop’, especially if their legal team is pushing hard for such a move to take place?
What personal experience do you have of how prisons really work, and how prisoners are dealt with and processed through the system, including any rehabilitative targets OMU may have set them?
Rich1973 said:
I once had a guided tour of Foston Hall prison and as a man I didn't feel at all comfortable being there.
I feel pretty confident in saying that it won't be the women that this rapist has been imprisoned with that will be at risk.
That occurred to me too. She’s fI feel pretty confident in saying that it won't be the women that this rapist has been imprisoned with that will be at risk.
ked either way.105.4 said:
Not everyone in prison is guilty of committing any crimes. Miscarriages of justice are still a regular occurrence.
There will be a large number of prisoners held in prison who are on remand awaiting trail. Some of these will be found ‘Not Guilty’ at their trail.
There are a large number of prisoners who have been recalled to prison for breaking sometimes the most ridiculous of licence conditions.
There are a large number of prisoners who are inside because there isn’t the mental health facilities elsewhere to hold them.
There are a large number of prisoners who purposely commit low-level crimes to get incarcerated on purpose because they are otherwise homeless.
There are a large number of people incarcerated because they were at the wrong place at the wrong time. Regular Joes, just like you.
Probably only around 70% of the 90’000+ prisoners are actually incarcerated because they’re a bad egg.
With this information in mind, perhaps you’d care to reconsider your viewpoints?
The court/jury/judge saw fit to put them there. That's good enough for me, thanks.There will be a large number of prisoners held in prison who are on remand awaiting trail. Some of these will be found ‘Not Guilty’ at their trail.
There are a large number of prisoners who have been recalled to prison for breaking sometimes the most ridiculous of licence conditions.
There are a large number of prisoners who are inside because there isn’t the mental health facilities elsewhere to hold them.
There are a large number of prisoners who purposely commit low-level crimes to get incarcerated on purpose because they are otherwise homeless.
There are a large number of people incarcerated because they were at the wrong place at the wrong time. Regular Joes, just like you.
Probably only around 70% of the 90’000+ prisoners are actually incarcerated because they’re a bad egg.
With this information in mind, perhaps you’d care to reconsider your viewpoints?
survivalist said:
HM-2 said:
Yes, very true, but it also cuts the other way. Segregation is also used to separate prisoners who are judged to pose a risk to others. Which is what I suspect I'd happening here, at least until such a time as a proper risk assessment can take place.
Indeed it is and people will have a variety of experiences and opinions on how likely this will be effectively implemented. Either way, this is a good illustration of how pro-trans legislation has given rise to a number of complex and challenging issues and that having a discussion about them isn’t immediately anti-trans / transphobic.
A "moral panic" is an apt description. We're bombarded by the gutter press with these single, isolated cases accompanied by hysterical "think of the children" screeching. And yet this hysteria seems to quietly ignore facts like the fact the overwhelming majority of trans people simply just want to live their lives in their chosen identity without being subject to harassment, and that trans people are at far, far greater risk of violence than almost any other sector of society. The murder rate amongst trans people is something like 4.5 times that of cisgender people.
105.4 said:
Biggy Stardust said:
I'm a very long way from being one of the PH liberals.
OTOH I see it this way: anyone who's been sufficiently naughty to finish up in prison doesn't deserve massive concern.
I understand about duty of care, etc., but feel that such duty is massively diminished for criminals convicted of something sufficiently serious that a custodial sentence has been deemed necessary, especially in view of the incredible reluctance to imprison women.
In short, if they commit the crimes then I'm not hugely fussed about their welfare.
Not everyone in prison is guilty of committing any crimes. Miscarriages of justice are still a regular occurrence.OTOH I see it this way: anyone who's been sufficiently naughty to finish up in prison doesn't deserve massive concern.
I understand about duty of care, etc., but feel that such duty is massively diminished for criminals convicted of something sufficiently serious that a custodial sentence has been deemed necessary, especially in view of the incredible reluctance to imprison women.
In short, if they commit the crimes then I'm not hugely fussed about their welfare.
There will be a large number of prisoners held in prison who are on remand awaiting trail. Some of these will be found ‘Not Guilty’ at their trail.
There are a large number of prisoners who have been recalled to prison for breaking sometimes the most ridiculous of licence conditions.
There are a large number of prisoners who are inside because there isn’t the mental health facilities elsewhere to hold them.
There are a large number of prisoners who purposely commit low-level crimes to get incarcerated on purpose because they are otherwise homeless.
There are a large number of people incarcerated because they were at the wrong place at the wrong time. Regular Joes, just like you.
Probably only around 70% of the 90’000+ prisoners are actually incarcerated because they’re a bad egg.
With this information in mind, perhaps you’d care to reconsider your viewpoints?
Even if you include the staff it wouldn't be anywhere near that
105.4 said:
Not everyone in prison is guilty of committing any crimes. Miscarriages of justice are still a regular occurrence.
very very few, advances in forensics and other technologies plus other checks in the system have significantly reduced any chance of miscarriages of justice
There will be a large number of prisoners held in prison who are on remand awaiting trail. Some of these will be found ‘Not Guilty’ at their trail.
remand prisoners are kept separate from those serving sentences and under different conditions
There are a large number of prisoners who have been recalled to prison for breaking sometimes the most ridiculous of licence conditions.
no, not at all, mostly for committing further serious crimes or contacting/threatening prior victims, often subject to violent/sexual/abuse
There are a large number of prisoners who are inside because there isn’t the mental health facilities elsewhere to hold them.
no
There are a large number of prisoners who purposely commit low-level crimes to get incarcerated on purpose because they are otherwise homeless.
no, not true
There are a large number of people incarcerated because they were at the wrong place at the wrong time. Regular Joes, just like you.
no doesn’t happen, just doesn’t happen
Probably only around 70% of the 90’000+ prisoners are actually incarcerated because they’re a bad egg.
it’s actually pretty hard to get a custodial sentence, most offenders are given non custodial sentences. The seriousness of the offence and evidence against them will need to be pretty overwhelming especially given the acquittal rates in many of the Crown Courts. To get a custodial then you have done something serious and had it proved against you
With this information in mind, perhaps you’d care to reconsider your viewpoints?
very very few, advances in forensics and other technologies plus other checks in the system have significantly reduced any chance of miscarriages of justice
There will be a large number of prisoners held in prison who are on remand awaiting trail. Some of these will be found ‘Not Guilty’ at their trail.
remand prisoners are kept separate from those serving sentences and under different conditions
There are a large number of prisoners who have been recalled to prison for breaking sometimes the most ridiculous of licence conditions.
no, not at all, mostly for committing further serious crimes or contacting/threatening prior victims, often subject to violent/sexual/abuse
There are a large number of prisoners who are inside because there isn’t the mental health facilities elsewhere to hold them.
no
There are a large number of prisoners who purposely commit low-level crimes to get incarcerated on purpose because they are otherwise homeless.
no, not true
There are a large number of people incarcerated because they were at the wrong place at the wrong time. Regular Joes, just like you.
no doesn’t happen, just doesn’t happen
Probably only around 70% of the 90’000+ prisoners are actually incarcerated because they’re a bad egg.
it’s actually pretty hard to get a custodial sentence, most offenders are given non custodial sentences. The seriousness of the offence and evidence against them will need to be pretty overwhelming especially given the acquittal rates in many of the Crown Courts. To get a custodial then you have done something serious and had it proved against you
With this information in mind, perhaps you’d care to reconsider your viewpoints?
The DM article was clearly trolling.
But if a fox was caught killing chickens, you wouldn't lock it up with chickens as a punishment (the image the DM was creating)
Keeping them out of the general population is the best realistic option. Which is what is happening.
With 163 trans prisoners, it's hardly worth assigning a dedicated prison for trans prisoners, and even then you'd need more than one)
Society (and the prison service) is having to deal with these issues, because it's no longer ignoring them. Finding new problems is not making " a problem" - it's part of the process to solve them.
Ian
But if a fox was caught killing chickens, you wouldn't lock it up with chickens as a punishment (the image the DM was creating)
Keeping them out of the general population is the best realistic option. Which is what is happening.
With 163 trans prisoners, it's hardly worth assigning a dedicated prison for trans prisoners, and even then you'd need more than one)
Society (and the prison service) is having to deal with these issues, because it's no longer ignoring them. Finding new problems is not making " a problem" - it's part of the process to solve them.
Ian
Firstly I am not going to dignify his position by using the female pronoun .
The photo referenced at the start of this thread clearly shows him to be male , and in the photo, the use of tight ski pants , is the equivalent of him giving a middle finger .
The photo referenced at the start of this thread clearly shows him to be male , and in the photo, the use of tight ski pants , is the equivalent of him giving a middle finger .
Edited by MXRod on Wednesday 25th January 09:09
Forgot: the other nuance is whether the convicted started to transaction solely to be imprisoned amongst women, or get an easier ride (no pun intended)
I doubt anyone reading the DM is qualified to answer that, but hopefully the correct judgement can be made, and the appropriate action taken.
I doubt anyone reading the DM is qualified to answer that, but hopefully the correct judgement can be made, and the appropriate action taken.
Jenny Tailor said:
You all should read the Scotland Independence Thread.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
and read the latest articles from wingsoverscotland.com
https://wingsoverscotland.com
Especially - The grooming of Holyrood. 23rd Jan
Mind blowing.
Thanks for posting that link Jenny, I linked that on another forum yesterday and was inundated with people calling me a transphobic bigot. I don't believe some of these people. https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
and read the latest articles from wingsoverscotland.com
https://wingsoverscotland.com
Especially - The grooming of Holyrood. 23rd Jan
Mind blowing.
Edited by Jenny Tailor on Tuesday 24th January 16:06
Ian Geary said:
With 163 trans prisoners, it's hardly worth assigning a dedicated prison for trans prisoners, and even then you'd need more than one)
Indeed, and I suspect trans female prisoners are at far greater risk of harm in a male prison than they pose harm within a female one. Ah yes, Wings over Scotland. Because a blog run by a games designer whose been banned from social media platforms for anti-trans views is bound to provide fair and balanced assessments on the matter.
Edited by HM-2 on Wednesday 25th January 08:17
plenty said:
Highly leading DM piece triggers NPE posters. Yep, I need my shocked emoji too.
If you want an alternative source, will these do?https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/transgender-woman-found...
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jan/24/gl...
https://news.stv.tv/west-central/transgender-woman...
HustleRussell said:
I saw this article about a man raping two women and immediately knew that the transphobes of PH would be all over it. I wasn't disappointed! Well, I am, but for a different reason...
If you and I know it is a man, then why are all the media sources referring to the rapist as she/her?105.4 said:
Biggy Stardust said:
I'm a very long way from being one of the PH liberals.
OTOH I see it this way: anyone who's been sufficiently naughty to finish up in prison doesn't deserve massive concern.
I understand about duty of care, etc., but feel that such duty is massively diminished for criminals convicted of something sufficiently serious that a custodial sentence has been deemed necessary, especially in view of the incredible reluctance to imprison women.
In short, if they commit the crimes then I'm not hugely fussed about their welfare.
Not everyone in prison is guilty of committing any crimes. Miscarriages of justice are still a regular occurrence.OTOH I see it this way: anyone who's been sufficiently naughty to finish up in prison doesn't deserve massive concern.
I understand about duty of care, etc., but feel that such duty is massively diminished for criminals convicted of something sufficiently serious that a custodial sentence has been deemed necessary, especially in view of the incredible reluctance to imprison women.
In short, if they commit the crimes then I'm not hugely fussed about their welfare.
There will be a large number of prisoners held in prison who are on remand awaiting trail. Some of these will be found ‘Not Guilty’ at their trail.
There are a large number of prisoners who have been recalled to prison for breaking sometimes the most ridiculous of licence conditions.
There are a large number of prisoners who are inside because there isn’t the mental health facilities elsewhere to hold them.
There are a large number of prisoners who purposely commit low-level crimes to get incarcerated on purpose because they are otherwise homeless.
There are a large number of people incarcerated because they were at the wrong place at the wrong time. Regular Joes, just like you.
Probably only around 70% of the 90’000+ prisoners are actually incarcerated because they’re a bad egg.
With this information in mind, perhaps you’d care to reconsider your viewpoints?
Rich1973 said:
I once had a guided tour of Foston Hall prison and as a man I didn't feel at all comfortable being there.
I feel pretty confident in saying that it won't be the women that this rapist has been imprisoned with that will be at risk.
They already have a notorious, violent transwoman in Foston Hall prison. You are obviously of the opinion that men are no threat to women.I feel pretty confident in saying that it won't be the women that this rapist has been imprisoned with that will be at risk.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lauren_Jeska
WorldBoss said:
Earthdweller said:
What could possibly go wrong?
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/11/tr...
A “predatory and controlling” rapist has been jailed for life after she attacked vulnerable women in female prisons.
The 52-year-old, who is currently transitioning, was sentenced yesterday for two counts of rape, two sexual assaults and one offence of wounding.
And judging by the vitriol in this thread, I take it below is what happens when things go supposedly "right"?https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/11/tr...
A “predatory and controlling” rapist has been jailed for life after she attacked vulnerable women in female prisons.
The 52-year-old, who is currently transitioning, was sentenced yesterday for two counts of rape, two sexual assaults and one offence of wounding.
https://www.thepinknews.com/2020/05/21/trans-priso...
Pinknews said:
The new MOJ figures refer to 11 trans women who were sexually assaulted in men’s prisons last year.
That's the result of the process prior to the current segregation and assessment framework that I have eluded to earlier in this thread was put into place, where trans prisoners without a GRC were automatically sent to prisons making their birth gender with little or no protection, which was almost certainly a direct knee jerk reaction to the Karen White case above. Nuanced problems often need nuanced solutions... Or we can just froth at fringe edge cases
Edited by WorldBoss on Tuesday 24th January 19:19
lrdisco said:
Kes Arevo said:
Dude, i was taking the piss out of you for calling people transphobes whilst calling this woman a man.
Jesus Christ.
Also, don't complain about people on a 'slow day' being in this thread, when you yourself are on it.
You don't scroll past, you jumped straight in calling people transphobes whilst calling her a man.
I get it that it's fine when you comment on something, but bad for others.
Some real freaky individuals on this website.
Sorry but he’s a man until his genitalia are removed. Quite simple really. Jesus Christ.
Also, don't complain about people on a 'slow day' being in this thread, when you yourself are on it.
You don't scroll past, you jumped straight in calling people transphobes whilst calling her a man.
I get it that it's fine when you comment on something, but bad for others.
Some real freaky individuals on this website.
Edited by Kes Arevo on Tuesday 24th January 18:08
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff