Russia Invades Ukraine. Volume 4

[borcy]

youngsyr said:

borcy said:

youngsyr said:

borcy said:

We're a bit closer to Ukraine as are our neighbours. The closer you are to a problem the bigger the problem.

That's an overly simplistic view - even if the Russians take Ukraine, which I highly doubt Germany and France will let happen, those two countries still stand between us and the Russians.

Not to mention the Fins, Swedes and Norwegians who won't stand for Russia invading Western Europe.

I put the chances of that war ever ending up on our doorstep as zero, as by then the US will be forced to join in, or see Europe entirely dominated by Russia.

Do things only affect us if they are on our doorstep?

If anything I'd say you had a simplistic view. Why should France let it happen but not us?

No, but we can't afford to be the World's policeman. The EU was set up for this sort of thing, it's on their doorstep. Let them deal with it.

I don't think the EU was set up for this.

The cost of not doing anything, I think, will be bigger than acting.

[youngsyr]

hidetheelephants said:

NATO said:

Article 5

“The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognized by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area.

Any such armed attack and all measures taken as a result thereof shall immediately be reported to the Security Council. Such measures shall be terminated when the Security Council has taken the measures necessary to restore and maintain international peace and security.”

And the relevance here is what exactly?

Ukraine isn't a NATO member.

[youngsyr]

borcy said:

I don't think the EU was set up for this.

The cost of not doing anything, I think, will be bigger than acting.

My point is not that nothing is done about it, just that it's not our responsibility to pay for it.

Do you think the EU would have our backs if Argentina attacked the Falkland Islands again?

[youngsyr]

B'stard Child said:

Wow......... Just slightly fking bitter - it's not a Brexit thread

The EU couldn't run a bath and they've always spent money they don't have.

How did you deal with a bully at school (or in life) roll over and hand over your lunch

Russia needs to be put back in their box and very firmly shown that they should bloody well stay there

This bully doesn't even go to our school though...

And its not our job to plug the EU's finances any more, in case you missed it?

[youngsyr]

borcy said:

I don't think the EU was set up for this.

The cost of not doing anything, I think, will be bigger than acting.

Again, I'm not saying do nothing. I'm saying those with the most to lose should be paying the biggest price.

We severed our links from the EU don't forget. No access to free markets, no money to make them feel safer, IMO.

[hidetheelephants]

[menguin]

youngsyr said:

That's an overly simplistic view - even if the Russians take Ukraine, which I highly doubt Germany and France will let happen, those two countries still stand between us and the Russians.

Not to mention the Fins, Swedes and Norwegians who won't stand for Russia invading Western Europe.

I put the chances of that war ever ending up on our doorstep as zero, as by then the US will be forced to join in, or see Europe entirely dominated by Russia.

So because its not Brits dying, then fk 'em? Nice viewpoint.

[BikeBikeBIke]

youngsyr said:

Do you think Russia wants to invade the rest of Europe?

If not, then your question is moot.

If so, then I think you need your head examined.

Here's Russia saying this week they're not stopping at Ukraine.

https://x.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1773084326957...

Its certain if they get to Odessa they're going to take Moldova. They have "To Berlin" written on their tanks. They've said over and over again they're not stopping at Ukraine. They're threated us with Nuclear Attacks. They've already taken Belarus.

If Russia get Ukraine they could have an army of every single male Ukrainian just as they did in the occupied areas.

Betting the farm on Russia quitting when they are on a roll is a far worse option than spending small amounts of money on stopping them now with (tragically) other people's blood.

[GT03ROB]

BikeBikeBIke said:

Here's Russia saying this week they're not stopping at Ukraine.

https://x.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1773084326957...

Its certain if they get to Odessa they're going to take Moldova. They have "To Berlin" written on their tanks. They've said over and over again they're not stopping at Ukraine. They're threated us with Nuclear Attacks. They've already taken Belarus.

That clip is somewhat laughably tragic & delusional. They are not stopping until they get Alaska back....

They may not be stopping at Ukraine.... but given they haven't actually gone very far in Ukraine. This is a bit presumptuous..

[smifffymoto]

On the other hand can we just assume Russia will stop at Ukraine.

I don’t think we should assume anything where this nutcase Putin is involved.

[768]

borcy said:

I don't think the EU was set up for this.

Still isn't.

[CharlesdeGaulle]

youngsyr said:

A repost that is equally as insightful as it is informative.

Crass naivety got dull 2 years ago.

[BikeBikeBIke]

youngsyr said:

No, but we can't afford to be the World's policeman.

We're an Island that survives on imported food and energy. Without free trade we die in two weeks. We can't afford not to be the world's policeman.

[Talksteer]

wiffmaster said:

oddball1313 said:

If Russia wins the war in Ukraine the UK and Europe are going to end up spending 8-9% GDP on defense. They are currently investing 40% GDP at the moment and if sustained once Ukraine is supressed will continue to push into other areas, it is in everyones interest to support Ukraine with as much assistance as possible to hopefully force Russia into bankruptcy, its the cheapest option for all concerned

Russia is spending 40% of their government budget on defence, not 40% of GDP.

But I totally agree with your sentiment; the UK and EU really needs to ramp up military production and throw a lot more money at defence.

40% of their FEDERAL government budget which is about half their government budget. It equates to about 7-8% of GDP.

The UK spent about 40% of it's GDP on WWII which was actually the highest percentage of the major participants.

If NATO put 0.5% of their GDP into aid for Ukraine they would out spend Russia by a big margin.

[borcy]

youngsyr said:

borcy said:

I don't think the EU was set up for this.

The cost of not doing anything, I think, will be bigger than acting.

My point is not that nothing is done about it, just that it's not our responsibility to pay for it.

Do you think the EU would have our backs if Argentina attacked the Falkland Islands again?

I don't really see what the EU has to do here. I see it as a NATO issue.

I've no problem with us funding Ukraine's war effort.

I'm not sure why you keep referring to the EU, i don't know if it's some obscure point about brexit.

I believe it to be in our interest to support Ukraine, regardless of whether we're in the EU or what the EU isn't/is doing.

[pinchmeimdreamin]

borcy said:

youngsyr said:

borcy said:

I don't think the EU was set up for this.

The cost of not doing anything, I think, will be bigger than acting.

My point is not that nothing is done about it, just that it's not our responsibility to pay for it.

Do you think the EU would have our backs if Argentina attacked the Falkland Islands again?

I don't really see what the EU has to do here. I see it as a NATO issue.

I've no problem with us funding Ukraine's war effort.

I'm not sure why you keep referring to the EU, i don't know if it's some obscure point about brexit.

I believe it to be in our interest to support Ukraine, regardless of whether we're in the EU or what the EU isn't/is doing.

It’s a chance to rant about Brexit, which has SFA to do with any part of this.

[aeropilot]

youngsyr said:

hidetheelephants said:

youngsyr said:

hidetheelephants said:

We're in NATO, if you don't like it lobby your representative.

So are the US.

Ukraine aren't.

NATO members in eastern europe are concerned about their security should Ukraine be defeated by Russia. I share their concern.

As they should be. Best they pony up and deal with the problem, eh?

I've taken the st side of Brexit for 8 years, about time we got some of the payback, wouldn't you say?

There's one in every village............

[BikeBikeBIke]

aeropilot said:

youngsyr said:

hidetheelephants said:

youngsyr said:

hidetheelephants said:

We're in NATO, if you don't like it lobby your representative.

So are the US.

Ukraine aren't.

NATO members in eastern europe are concerned about their security should Ukraine be defeated by Russia. I share their concern.

As they should be. Best they pony up and deal with the problem, eh?

I've taken the st side of Brexit for 8 years, about time we got some of the payback, wouldn't you say?

There's one in every village............

We're a mixed ability group, for sure.

[CharlesdeGaulle]

BikeBikeBIke said:

We're a mixed ability group, for sure.

[Prolex-UK]

BikeBikeBIke said:

aeropilot said:

youngsyr said:

hidetheelephants said:

youngsyr said:

hidetheelephants said:

We're in NATO, if you don't like it lobby your representative.

So are the US.

Ukraine aren't.

NATO members in eastern europe are concerned about their security should Ukraine be defeated by Russia. I share their concern.

As they should be. Best they pony up and deal with the problem, eh?

I've taken the st side of Brexit for 8 years, about time we got some of the payback, wouldn't you say?

There's one in every village............

We're a mixed ability group, for sure.

Very subtle.

I like that