Russia Invades Ukraine. Volume 4

[BikeBikeBIke]

TGCOTF-dewey said:

borcy said:

https://twitter.com/front_ukrainian/status/1780150...

A new Ukrainian submarine

I don't believe that's actually a proper sub. To me that's a low observable craft with some stealth characteristics.

At best, it might be semi-submersible.

I reckon fake. You wouldn't post it on Twitter if it was real.

Hope I'm wrong.

[hidetheelephants]

BikeBikeBIke said:

TGCOTF-dewey said:

borcy said:

https://twitter.com/front_ukrainian/status/1780150...

A new Ukrainian submarine

I don't believe that's actually a proper sub. To me that's a low observable craft with some stealth characteristics.

At best, it might be semi-submersible.

I reckon fake. You wouldn't post it on Twitter if it was real.

Hope I'm wrong.

They've knocked up equally shonky looking angry jetskis that sank a load of russian ships, so I will reserve judgement.

[paulrockliffe]

Cheib said:

Europe has to take the long term lead on this. Even if the US voted through the $60bil aid package Ukraine is not going to win this war….that’s enough to maybe get Ukraine armed again to the extent it can defend itself and take it to the Russians in a limited manner. It is not going to put Ukraine in a position to defeat Russia and defend themselves in the long term.

In other news the US politicians are apparently voting on Ukraine/Israel aid in the next few days…

If the vote passes on Saturday, it authorises the immediate transfer of ATACMS, there's 1,000 of those sat waiting for decommissioning, more than there are targets. They would have a huge impact on their own and aren't part of the dollar value of aid because they are worthless.

[BikeBikeBIke]

paulrockliffe said:

If the vote passes on Saturday, it authorises the immediate transfer of ATACMS, there's 1,000 of those sat waiting for decommissioning, more than there are targets. They would have a huge impact on their own and aren't part of the dollar value of aid because they are worthless.

The best bit of this is 'immediate'.

I hope they help Ukraine.

[TGCOTF-dewey]

hidetheelephants said:

BikeBikeBIke said:

TGCOTF-dewey said:

borcy said:

https://twitter.com/front_ukrainian/status/1780150...

A new Ukrainian submarine

I don't believe that's actually a proper sub. To me that's a low observable craft with some stealth characteristics.

At best, it might be semi-submersible.

I reckon fake. You wouldn't post it on Twitter if it was real.

Hope I'm wrong.

They've knocked up equally shonky looking angry jetskis that sank a load of russian ships, so I will reserve judgement.

I suspect it's a follow on manned version of the angy jetski able to deploy torpedoes... Like a modern day MTB.

[hidetheelephants]

BikeBikeBIke said:

paulrockliffe said:

If the vote passes on Saturday, it authorises the immediate transfer of ATACMS, there's 1,000 of those sat waiting for decommissioning, more than there are targets. They would have a huge impact on their own and aren't part of the dollar value of aid because they are worthless.

The best bit of this is 'immediate'.

I hope they help Ukraine.

DoD will need a dollar value regardless of whether it's saving money on decommissioning, as PrSM or whatever being bought to replace them has to be justified.

[The Gauge]

borcy said:

https://twitter.com/front_ukrainian/status/1780150...

A new Ukrainian submarine

Sorry, but I think thats actually a clip from Huckleberry Finn TV programme..

[J4CKO]

Just watching BBC news and they are saying Russian war deaths have topped 50,000, hadn’t that milestone passed in about July 2022 ?

Keep seeing 400k plus mentioned, is that killed and injured ?

50k seems pretty low based on all the other figures seen.

[MBBlat]

borcy said:

https://twitter.com/front_ukrainian/status/1780150...

A new Ukrainian submarine

I presume “torpedo missiles” is a poor translation from Ukrainian rather than the Ukrainians having invented a new weapon type.

[pingu393]

J4CKO said:

Just watching BBC news and they are saying Russian war deaths have topped 50,000, hadn’t that milestone passed in about July 2022 ?

Keep seeing 400k plus mentioned, is that killed and injured ?

50k seems pretty low based on all the other figures seen.

It'll be the official ruzzian figure, i.e. the number of Lada's paid as prizes in the government raffle.

[off_again]

pingu393 said:

J4CKO said:

Just watching BBC news and they are saying Russian war deaths have topped 50,000, hadn’t that milestone passed in about July 2022 ?

Keep seeing 400k plus mentioned, is that killed and injured ?

50k seems pretty low based on all the other figures seen.

It'll be the official ruzzian figure, i.e. the number of Lada's paid as prizes in the government raffle.

Yup, that’s the confirmed figure from Russia. You know, that country that is 100% truthful and never lies about anything.

Other sources, NATO governments and intelligence departments place the number at 10 times that at least. Most recent estimate puts the total of killed and wounded at over 1m!

Of course, the natural thing to do is work this backwards to get a number of killed. But that doesn’t work in this case because Russia has utterly terrible battlefield medical support and even troops that would expect to survive are dying before they can be recovered to a hospital.

It’s an absolutely ridiculous figure. To put this into perspective, the US lost 58,000 in Vietnam and that was over years!! Afghanistan and Iraq lead to about 7500 deaths, and that was a decade long! Just goes to show that Putler really doesn’t care. Madness.

[PRTVR]

hidetheelephants said:

BikeBikeBIke said:

paulrockliffe said:

If the vote passes on Saturday, it authorises the immediate transfer of ATACMS, there's 1,000 of those sat waiting for decommissioning, more than there are targets. They would have a huge impact on their own and aren't part of the dollar value of aid because they are worthless.

The best bit of this is 'immediate'.

I hope they help Ukraine.

DoD will need a dollar value regardless of whether it's saving money on decommissioning, as PrSM or whatever being bought to replace them has to be justified.

Well give them a dollar value, the UK could pay a dollar each and look after the decommissioning .

[eyebeebe]

off_again said:

pingu393 said:

J4CKO said:

Just watching BBC news and they are saying Russian war deaths have topped 50,000, hadn’t that milestone passed in about July 2022 ?

Keep seeing 400k plus mentioned, is that killed and injured ?

50k seems pretty low based on all the other figures seen.

It'll be the official ruzzian figure, i.e. the number of Lada's paid as prizes in the government raffle.

Yup, that’s the confirmed figure from Russia. You know, that country that is 100% truthful and never lies about anything.

Other sources, NATO governments and intelligence departments place the number at 10 times that at least. Most recent estimate puts the total of killed and wounded at over 1m!

Of course, the natural thing to do is work this backwards to get a number of killed. But that doesn’t work in this case because Russia has utterly terrible battlefield medical support and even troops that would expect to survive are dying before they can be recovered to a hospital.

It’s an absolutely ridiculous figure. To put this into perspective, the US lost 58,000 in Vietnam and that was over years!! Afghanistan and Iraq lead to about 7500 deaths, and that was a decade long! Just goes to show that Putler really doesn’t care. Madness.

I read the BBC article on this yesterday. It’s confirmed kills by the BBC in collaboration with an open source intelligence outfit. Basing it on things like cemetery plots. They concede that this is likely a multiple too low.

[TEKNOPUG]

When the BBC did a similar report last year, it was based on deaths confirmed by analysing Russia data. So cementery increase, documented burials, local media reports and other non official sources.

What it doesn't include is everyone who is "missing" and still in Ukraine. Many of whom will never be found. So I'd imagine you could comfortably double the BBC figure. Then add everyone who has been injured and unable to return to military service and 400k+ doesn't seem unreasonable.

[Puddenchucker]

US Intelligence was indicating 315,000 casualties (killed or injured) as of December 2023:

https://www.reuters.com/world/us-intelligence-asse...

[macron]

pingu393 said:

It'll be the official ruzzian figure, i.e. the number of Lada's paid as prizes in the government raffle.

Erm, no,

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-68819853

"The overall death toll - of more than 50,000 - is eight times higher than the only official public acknowledgement of fatality numbers ever given by Moscow in September 2022."

According to Russia, pretty much no-one on their side has died.

[isaldiri]

off_again said:

Yup, that’s the confirmed figure from Russia. You know, that country that is 100% truthful and never lies about anything.

Other sources, NATO governments and intelligence departments place the number at 10 times that at least. Most recent estimate puts the total of killed and wounded at over 1m!

Can you point to any Nato government/intelligence sources that say there are over 500k russians killed so far and killed/wounded at over 1m?

[BikeBikeBIke]

Sleaker Johnson finally *saying* the right thing:

https://x.com/Ukrainerabbi/status/1780797029494518...

[J4CKO]

eyebeebe said:

off_again said:

pingu393 said:

J4CKO said:

Just watching BBC news and they are saying Russian war deaths have topped 50,000, hadn’t that milestone passed in about July 2022 ?

Keep seeing 400k plus mentioned, is that killed and injured ?

50k seems pretty low based on all the other figures seen.

It'll be the official ruzzian figure, i.e. the number of Lada's paid as prizes in the government raffle.

Yup, that’s the confirmed figure from Russia. You know, that country that is 100% truthful and never lies about anything.

Other sources, NATO governments and intelligence departments place the number at 10 times that at least. Most recent estimate puts the total of killed and wounded at over 1m!

Of course, the natural thing to do is work this backwards to get a number of killed. But that doesn’t work in this case because Russia has utterly terrible battlefield medical support and even troops that would expect to survive are dying before they can be recovered to a hospital.

It’s an absolutely ridiculous figure. To put this into perspective, the US lost 58,000 in Vietnam and that was over years!! Afghanistan and Iraq lead to about 7500 deaths, and that was a decade long! Just goes to show that Putler really doesn’t care. Madness.

I read the BBC article on this yesterday. It’s confirmed kills by the BBC in collaboration with an open source intelligence outfit. Basing it on things like cemetery plots. They concede that this is likely a multiple too low.

I was trying to explain it to my wife as the news was on that it was a ridiculously low number and is likely nearer 8 times that and she asks where I get my information from, think we missed the "its probably bks" line as she was telling me that Pistonheads isnt a reliable source FFS been following all this for over two years.

So I showed her a few estimates and asked her if she would go with all that weight of evidence, or Russia, long since held up as a paragon of truth and virtue ?

But, does make me wonder how many watched that, just caught the headline figure and went back to browsing TitCok.

[Digga]

J4CKO said:

I was trying to explain it to my wife as the news was on that it was a ridiculously low number and is likely nearer 8 times that and she asks where I get my information from, think we missed the "its probably bks" line as she was telling me that Pistonheads isnt a reliable source FFS been following all this for over two years.

So I showed her a few estimates and asked her if she would go with all that weight of evidence, or Russia, long since held up as a paragon of truth and virtue ?

But, does make me wonder how many watched that, just caught the headline figure and went back to browsing TitCok.

Also makes me wonder if there are some of what McCarthyist America used to call 'pinkos' hiding in the BBC news team.