Russia Invades Ukraine. Volume 4
Discussion
pingu393 said:
isaldiri said:
pingu393 said:
Defending Israel was not going to kill any Iranians, nor was there any significant risk to our airmen.
Defending Ukraine will probably result in ruzzians being killed, and will come at significant risk to our airmen.
How does destroying russian drones and missiles have more risk to us than iranian drones and missiles? We didn't seem to have killed any iranians in doing so either after all.Defending Ukraine will probably result in ruzzians being killed, and will come at significant risk to our airmen.
Either way, they win.
SU-35 shoots down Eurofighter, ruzzia proves its might. Eurofighter shoots down SU-35, ruzzia is being attacked by NATO.
isaldiri said:
... and given the russians didn't actually make a serious effort to try to shoot down the rivet joint over the black sea...
Huh?https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66798508
EDIT: Or do you mean Russian High Command did not sanction this mistaken action?
Edited by Hereward on Friday 19th April 10:32
Hereward said:
isaldiri said:
... and given the russians didn't actually make a serious effort to try to shoot down the rivet joint over the black sea...
Huh?https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66798508
EDIT: Or do you mean Russian High Command did not sanction this mistaken action?
Edited by Hereward on Friday 19th April 10:32
isaldiri said:
A eurofighter wouldn't necessarily need to be over ukraine to engage any missiles/drones and given the russians didn't actually make a serious effort to try to shoot down the rivet joint over the black sea, there's little to believe that russian fighter jets are going to be engaging any nato planes anytime soon or vice versa as much as some might like that to happen.
How are they going to intercept missiles and drones if they aren’t flying over Ukraine ?It’s 600 miles from the Polish border to Kyiv.
ecsrobin said:
Cheib said:
He’s served in Syria investigating the chemical weapons attacks…think he actually was in the wrong place at the wrong time once and was on the receiving end.
He also did tours in Iran, Afghanistan, Bosnia and Kosovo.
Makes him better placed than most to comment.
About CBRN matters. He’s no different to a Doctor discussing maritime law, might have an understanding because their mate has a boat. He also did tours in Iran, Afghanistan, Bosnia and Kosovo.
Makes him better placed than most to comment.
TheJimi said:
Hereward said:
isaldiri said:
... and given the russians didn't actually make a serious effort to try to shoot down the rivet joint over the black sea...
Huh?https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66798508
EDIT: Or do you mean Russian High Command did not sanction this mistaken action?
Edited by Hereward on Friday 19th April 10:32
isaldiri said:
Do you really think that the russians made a ‘bloody serious effort’ to down the rivet joint? If so why didn’t the other pilot start firing once it was clear the first one had messed up? Or even started using cannon instead. Or do you think the first pilot was only armed with 2 missiles?
I think trying to fire one missile and then firing another missile is pretty serious. I suppose people have different thresholds for counts as serious.
Cheib said:
And that opinion is based on what ?
You’re aware the armed forces are quite diverse in what they do, you have chefs, drivers, aircraft engineers, pilots, cartographers, gym instructors, medics, dentists, and so on, so just because you’re in the armed forces doesn’t mean you are suddenly an expert on all parts of it. If you were to visit an RAF fighter base vs a helicopter base it’s like 2 separate countries in how even the base will operate, let alone the equipment they use and how everyone interacts. And that’s before you get to inter service relations.
He may well have had a pretty interesting career but from what has been posted none of that is in relation to what he was discussing.
Mannginger said:
Excellent!borcy said:
isaldiri said:
Do you really think that the russians made a ‘bloody serious effort’ to down the rivet joint? If so why didn’t the other pilot start firing once it was clear the first one had messed up? Or even started using cannon instead. Or do you think the first pilot was only armed with 2 missiles?
I think trying to fire one missile and then firing another missile is pretty serious. I suppose people have different thresholds for counts as serious.
BrettMRC said:
Mannginger said:
Excellent!dudleybloke said:
BrettMRC said:
Mannginger said:
Excellent!
isaldiri said:
TheJimi said:
Hereward said:
isaldiri said:
... and given the russians didn't actually make a serious effort to try to shoot down the rivet joint over the black sea...
Huh?https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66798508
EDIT: Or do you mean Russian High Command did not sanction this mistaken action?
Edited by Hereward on Friday 19th April 10:32
I would contend that firing two missiles would amount to what I described as a "fairly bloody serious effort" - that the wingman didn't fire doesn't diminish that, imo.
TheJimi said:
Semantics and perception I suppose, dude.
I would contend that firing two missiles would amount to what I described as a "fairly bloody serious effort" - that the wingman didn't fire doesn't diminish that, imo.
Yup, and the OP directly addressed it in his post:I would contend that firing two missiles would amount to what I described as a "fairly bloody serious effort" - that the wingman didn't fire doesn't diminish that, imo.
"Or do you mean Russian High Command did not sanction this mistaken action?"
Edited by BikeBikeBIke on Friday 19th April 12:20
TheJimi said:
Semantics and perception I suppose, dude.
I would contend that firing two missiles would amount to what I described as a "fairly bloody serious effort" - that the wingman didn't fire doesn't diminish that, imo.
Well, fair enough. I'm happy to concede the pilot made a rather serious effort albeit one (imo anyway) clearly stemming from a cockup on his end. I still maintain that the russian high command level, there clearly wasn't because between those 2 fighters, a serious effort as directed on that level would have meant the rivet joint being shot down. I would contend that firing two missiles would amount to what I described as a "fairly bloody serious effort" - that the wingman didn't fire doesn't diminish that, imo.
isaldiri said:
Well, fair enough. I'm happy to concede the pilot made a rather serious effort albeit one (imo anyway) clearly stemming from a cockup on his end. I still maintain that the russian high command level, there clearly wasn't because between those 2 fighters, a serious effort as directed on that level would have meant the rivet joint being shot down.
A serious effort doesn't have to result in an aircraft being hit or destroyed. Michael Kofman provides a first class analysis of where we are and where it's going:
https://mcdn.podbean.com/mf/web/3ky3qyxzdb3rzztt/B...
https://mcdn.podbean.com/mf/web/3ky3qyxzdb3rzztt/B...
isaldiri said:
borcy said:
isaldiri said:
Do you really think that the russians made a ‘bloody serious effort’ to down the rivet joint? If so why didn’t the other pilot start firing once it was clear the first one had messed up? Or even started using cannon instead. Or do you think the first pilot was only armed with 2 missiles?
I think trying to fire one missile and then firing another missile is pretty serious. I suppose people have different thresholds for counts as serious.
No i don't think the Russian high command ok'd it all. 'The Russians' in the original post, for me, covers those acting individually and on orders.
borcy said:
Effort to me implies trying but not successful. But I'm not sure this is about grammar.
No i don't think the Russian high command ok'd it all. 'The Russians' in the original post, for me, covers those acting individually and on orders.
Ok - do you think the pilot really intended and meant to shoot down the rivet joint? launching only one missile (the second dropped off the pylon and never engaged so i'd question if that was an intended fire rather than something out of a panic button jam) that didn't seem have lock to my mind anyway doesn't suggest 'a serious effort' to destroy the other plane as a serious effort to do that would have meant full on engagement with all available firepower (ie remaining missiles and/or cannon). that clearly didn't happen. No i don't think the Russian high command ok'd it all. 'The Russians' in the original post, for me, covers those acting individually and on orders.
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