Russia Invades Ukraine. Volume 4

[Mr Dendrite]

spookly said:

Mr Dendrite said:

Immediate affect of the drone event. Forte 10 Global hawk is not in its usual position over the Black Sea, Instead it’s over Romania. Interesting to see if it’s a temporary change otherwise you could argue it is a win for Putin pushing it further back.

Thinking about the Rivet Joint incident. We still send it along the Black Sea but now accompanied by two Typhoons add in the Tanker required for the fighters and we’re having to expend more resource for the same result.

I guess it’s all a bit of game of applying pressure from each side.

Looks like he heard you and is heading towards the Russian side of the Black Sea as of now:
https://www.flightradar24.com/FORTE10/2f8d2bc8

Yeah, I was a bit premature, but it does look to be further south than usual? At 51000ft it must be pushing it to get an SU27 above it?

[pquinn]

Mr Dendrite said:

At 51000ft it must be pushing it to get an SU27 above it?

Not when the service ceiling of an SU27 starts with a 6, just like a lot of similar jets.

[Hereward]

SU27 maintenance must be pretty intensive so the US needs to send a constant stream of drones along the Russian - International Airspace border to tie up Russian resources.

[Mr Dendrite]

pquinn said:

Mr Dendrite said:

At 51000ft it must be pushing it to get an SU27 above it?

Not when the service ceiling of an SU27 starts with a 6, just like a lot of similar jets.

The service ceiling may but your operational envelope at that altitude can become very small, hence why I added the question mark.

Mind you it looks like the Americans are just going to annoy them by flying above the airliners straight into Sochi

Edited by Mr Dendrite on Friday 17th March 11:31

[BikeBikeBIke]

Hereward said:

SU27 maintenance must be pretty intensive

I'd love to know what they need to do following a collision with a drone. 5 minute visual inspection or 6 months strip down and rebuild?

[gotoPzero]

pquinn said:

Mr Dendrite said:

At 51000ft it must be pushing it to get an SU27 above it?

Not when the service ceiling of an SU27 starts with a 6, just like a lot of similar jets.

I would not trust the mode c data. Its very easy for the US to ping what ever data they want out of that aircraft.

The published service ceiling of the RQ4 is 65k but again its almost certainly capable of going a bit higher (Absolute ceiling). The U2 could go higher than that and is much older technology and has the issue around keeping its human pilot alive (thats why the U2 pilots wear a "space suit").

The main issue with going higher is the stall speed can increase to the maximum speed the airframe can withstand. In addition the airflow over the wings can be effected by aerodynamics and the airflow can detach and you end up without any control. In reality 70k is about the limit without going into supersonics. But you need a massive wing.

Its a really interesting area of aviation and a lot more complicated than I can understand!!

[catso]

BikeBikeBIke said:

Hereward said:

SU27 maintenance must be pretty intensive

I'd love to know what they need to do following a collision with a drone. 5 minute visual inspection or 6 months strip down and rebuild?

Seeing the state of their army, I would think the 5 minute inspection with a gaffer tape/cable tie bodge is more likely...

[Tango13]

pquinn said:

Mr Dendrite said:

At 51000ft it must be pushing it to get an SU27 above it?

Not when the service ceiling of an SU27 starts with a 6, just like a lot of similar jets.

Getting to 60,000ft is the easy bit, allegedly a Lightning could boom & zoom to 70,000ft back in the day but just because you can reach that altitude doesn't automatically mean you can do anything whilst up there. The air is so thin you have all sorts of physiological problems to contend with such as the bends or the pilots blood boiling off and trying to manoeuvre up there is like driving on black ice if the engines don't flame out from a lack of oxygen...

[BikeBikeBIke]

Tango13 said:

Getting to 60,000ft is the easy bit, allegedly a Lightning could boom & zoom to 70,000ft back in the day but just because you can reach that altitude doesn't automatically mean you can do anything whilst up there. The air is so thin you have all sorts of physiological problems to contend with such as the bends or the pilots blood boiling off and trying to manoeuvre up there is like driving on black ice if the engines don't flame out from a lack of oxygen...

It seems just being there damages the engines:

https://www-nbcnews-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www...

[aeropilot]

pquinn said:

Mr Dendrite said:

At 51000ft it must be pushing it to get an SU27 above it?

Not when the service ceiling of an SU27 starts with a 6

Just about starts with a 6........ would be a more accurate description.

The Global Hawk's don't seem to have been an issue flying around the Black Sea for the past 12 months+ which is probably because they can fly much higher than the Reaper which they intercepted the other day (and which looking at the film wasn't even flying up close to its 50k service ceiling) which is likely why Russia AF attempted to do what they did, as they could get to it, and they probably know the Reaper can be armed, whereas the Global Hawk isn't.

[TriumphStag3.0V8]

BikeBikeBIke said:

Hereward said:

SU27 maintenance must be pretty intensive

I'd love to know what they need to do following a collision with a drone. 5 minute visual inspection or 6 months strip down and rebuild?

Look at the plane, shrug and walk off?

[TriumphStag3.0V8]

BikeBikeBIke said:

Byker28i said:

8bit said:

Byker28i said:

Ukrainians claim they've shot down a a Mugin-5 drone made by a Chinese manufacturer based in the port city of Xiamen, on China's eastern coast, a drone thats $15,000 and on sale Chinese marketplace websites including Alibaba and Taobao.
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/03/16/europe/china-ma...

I'm not really sure what message that story is intended to convey. Other, cheaper off-the-shelf stuff like DJI drones are widely known to be in use already on both sides, this is just a bigger, more expensive UAV that can be bought by anyone able to pay the asking price. If the implication is that this represents some sort of escalation on the part of the Chinese then that's quite a leap.

I think it was more 'look at what the russians have resorted to' rather than the might of the russian army...

Good to see the Chinese aren't happy *and* drone without a camera must make aiming the bomb a bit tricky!

Aim?

Didn't think the Russian were too picky about inconvenient details like actually aiming. Lob the bombs in the general direction and as long as it hits *something*, it's all good.

[moustachebandit]

For those with the time - this is worth a listen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Em95lYBHbIc&ab...

Go to 28.40 for a very eloquent presentation on how russia is essentially its biggest enemy.

Russia speaks afterwards - Pure fantasy.

Edited by moustachebandit on Friday 17th March 12:27

[myvision]

A Russian 767 aircraft that suffered an engine failure when trying to take off from Phuket airport in February had reportedly gone 3 years without the engine being inspected, due to Western sanctions. This has serious implications for air safety
https://twitter.com/ChrisO_wiki/status/16366570745...

[GroundEffect]

gotoPzero said:

pquinn said:

Mr Dendrite said:

At 51000ft it must be pushing it to get an SU27 above it?

Not when the service ceiling of an SU27 starts with a 6, just like a lot of similar jets.

I would not trust the mode c data. Its very easy for the US to ping what ever data they want out of that aircraft.

The published service ceiling of the RQ4 is 65k but again its almost certainly capable of going a bit higher (Absolute ceiling). The U2 could go higher than that and is much older technology and has the issue around keeping its human pilot alive (thats why the U2 pilots wear a "space suit").

The main issue with going higher is the stall speed can increase to the maximum speed the airframe can withstand. In addition the airflow over the wings can be effected by aerodynamics and the airflow can detach and you end up without any control. In reality 70k is about the limit without going into supersonics. But you need a massive wing.

Its a really interesting area of aviation and a lot more complicated than I can understand!!

See coffin corner.

[Jhonno]

myvision said:

A Russian 767 aircraft that suffered an engine failure when trying to take off from Phuket airport in February had reportedly gone 3 years without the engine being inspected, due to Western sanctions. This has serious implications for air safety
https://twitter.com/ChrisO_wiki/status/16366570745...

3 years due to sanctions that are a year old, and were lifted on aircraft?

[BikeBikeBIke]

moustachebandit said:

For those with the time - this is worth a listen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Em95lYBHbIc&ab...

Go to 28.40 for a very eloquent presentation on how russia is essentially its biggest enemy.

Russia speaks afterwards - Pure fantasy.

Yeah, thanks for sharing. The Russian response is startling, it's just blatant lies, easy to verify who's right, I remember many of the claimed statements from Russian state TV so they happened, no doubt.

[Digga]

BikeBikeBIke said:

moustachebandit said:

For those with the time - this is worth a listen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Em95lYBHbIc&ab...

Go to 28.40 for a very eloquent presentation on how russia is essentially its biggest enemy.

Russia speaks afterwards - Pure fantasy.

Yeah, thanks for sharing. The Russian response is startling, it's just blatant lies, easy to verify who's right, I remember many of the claimed statements from Russian state TV so they happened, no doubt.

Wonderful rebuttal by Timothy Snyder.

[Snoggledog]

8bit said:

Snoggledog said:

8bit said:

Slovakia have just announced that they will join Poland in donating MiG-29 fighter jets to Ukraine. Also, Russia have announced that Sergei Shoigu has presented state awards to the Su-27 pilots involved in the downing of the American MQ-9 Reaper drone.

The brass neck of those fkers, honestly.

All three of them? I know they were having discussions about upgrading to F35s a while back but their air force is quite tiny

Update, AP reporting it's all thirteen of Slovakia's MiG-29s. Although apparently they've all been grounded since last summer due to lack of parts and after the Russian technicians all went home...

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-mig-...

I honestly didn't think they had that many. I know that after the break-up of Czechoslovakia most of the hardware went to the Czech Republic much to the consternation of the Slovaks. I rather think it's still a sore subject in some quarters.

But my original comment was slightly tongue in cheek. I though they had 8 or 9

[aeropilot]

myvision said:

A Russian 767 aircraft that suffered an engine failure when trying to take off from Phuket airport in February had reportedly gone 3 years without the engine being inspected, due to Western sanctions. This has serious implications for air safety
https://twitter.com/ChrisO_wiki/status/16366570745...

Which is precisely why Russian airlines have been banned from flying in the EU and North America etc., and many other western countries airspace that don't want the risk of one coming down....however, many Asian countries haven't done so, nor have most African ones.