Russia Invades Ukraine. Volume 4
Discussion
spookly said:
BikeBikeBIke said:
https://twitter.com/samagreene/status/163823085499...
"Putin announced a reorientation of agricultural trade towards China and a strategic role for China in developing Russia's far east and high north -- a move Putin's own security apparatus has long resisted (for obvious reasons). Again, strategic wins for China."
Dear oh dear. Putin is a total clown. Stitching up his own people in exchange for a few years of survival.
Trying to gain territory in the west at the cost of losing far more in the east. Real 4d chess there."Putin announced a reorientation of agricultural trade towards China and a strategic role for China in developing Russia's far east and high north -- a move Putin's own security apparatus has long resisted (for obvious reasons). Again, strategic wins for China."
Dear oh dear. Putin is a total clown. Stitching up his own people in exchange for a few years of survival.
They had a perfectly good situation trading with China and the West. Now they've kicked the Western markets into touch and decided they don't like China. Morons.
Edited by BikeBikeBIke on Tuesday 21st March 20:37
The most significant statement I have read is that China and Russia agree that "Nuclear was must never be unleashed"...that sounds to me like that is something that China and not Russia wanted.
Worth remembering that Putin told Xi a year ago this was over in three days and the intimation has been that China isn't happy about the threats of escalation and the instability it has created.
There was a theory doing the rounds a few months ago that the the US and China had an agreement that the US wouldn't supply the kind of weapons that would really hurt Russia like long range HIMARS in return for which China would keep Putin's finger off the button. Putin will have wanted something much more profound out of this meeting....that's my feeling. All fart and no poo......
Worth remembering that Putin told Xi a year ago this was over in three days and the intimation has been that China isn't happy about the threats of escalation and the instability it has created.
There was a theory doing the rounds a few months ago that the the US and China had an agreement that the US wouldn't supply the kind of weapons that would really hurt Russia like long range HIMARS in return for which China would keep Putin's finger off the button. Putin will have wanted something much more profound out of this meeting....that's my feeling. All fart and no poo......
Cheib said:
Putin will have wanted something much more profound out of this meeting....that's my feeling. All fart and no poo......
Russians on Telegram seem to have worked out how bad their situation is. They've walked away from Western markets and now China can name their price. (And their price includes influence over territory.)I've seen two posts calling for a revolution.
I think its really hit home to them what they've done.
As for the awareness of educated, wealthy Russians, to the games and corruption played by Putin, I have no doubt many know. Having just finished watching the BBC documentary about opposition leader Navalny I can see both the support for democracy and opposition, as well as the explicit realisation of the corruption at play.
It makes even more sense, knowing this, of the great efforts to protect the elite cities from the worst attritional effects of the conscription.
Xi may well have played a blinder. His refusal to help (and the s
t agricultural deal) may be the final nail for Putin within Russia.
It makes even more sense, knowing this, of the great efforts to protect the elite cities from the worst attritional effects of the conscription.
Xi may well have played a blinder. His refusal to help (and the s
t agricultural deal) may be the final nail for Putin within Russia.Digga said:
Precisely. The flaw is that Xi assumes Putin will not lie through his arse and every other orifice to him, just like he does to everyone else. Vranyo!
I very much doubt that Xi assumes any such thing. He's playing Putin.spookly said:
BikeBikeBIke said:
https://twitter.com/samagreene/status/163823085499...
"Putin announced a reorientation of agricultural trade towards China and a strategic role for China in developing Russia's far east and high north -- a move Putin's own security apparatus has long resisted (for obvious reasons). Again, strategic wins for China."
Dear oh dear. Putin is a total clown. Stitching up his own people in exchange for a few years of survival.
Trying to gain territory in the west at the cost of losing far more in the east. Real 4d chess there."Putin announced a reorientation of agricultural trade towards China and a strategic role for China in developing Russia's far east and high north -- a move Putin's own security apparatus has long resisted (for obvious reasons). Again, strategic wins for China."
Dear oh dear. Putin is a total clown. Stitching up his own people in exchange for a few years of survival.
8bit said:
Digga said:
Xi may well have played a blinder. His refusal to help (and the st agricultural deal) may be the final nail for Putin within Russia.
Putin is beholden to Xi - surely Xi will want to keep him where he is, at least until he can install a viable (or better) alternative?t agricultural deal) may be the final nail for Putin within Russia.h.Nonetheless both are f
ked by their demographics in the medium to long term anyway, its only a question of how much damage they do in the interim. dangerousB said:
Wombat3 said:
This has been obvious for quite a while...Russia is going to end up as China's bh.
Nonetheless both are fked by their demographics in the medium to long term anyway, its only a question of how much damage they do in the interim.
Or equitable partners. Who knows.h.Nonetheless both are f
ked by their demographics in the medium to long term anyway, its only a question of how much damage they do in the interim. Wombat3 said:
8bit said:
Digga said:
Xi may well have played a blinder. His refusal to help (and the st agricultural deal) may be the final nail for Putin within Russia.
Putin is beholden to Xi - surely Xi will want to keep him where he is, at least until he can install a viable (or better) alternative?t agricultural deal) may be the final nail for Putin within Russia.h.Nonetheless both are f
ked by their demographics in the medium to long term anyway, its only a question of how much damage they do in the interim. Wombat3 said:
8bit said:
Digga said:
Xi may well have played a blinder. His refusal to help (and the st agricultural deal) may be the final nail for Putin within Russia.
Putin is beholden to Xi - surely Xi will want to keep him where he is, at least until he can install a viable (or better) alternative?t agricultural deal) may be the final nail for Putin within Russia.h.Nonetheless both are f
ked by their demographics in the medium to long term anyway, its only a question of how much damage they do in the interim. BikeBikeBIke said:
Cheib said:
Putin will have wanted something much more profound out of this meeting....that's my feeling. All fart and no poo......
Russians on Telegram seem to have worked out how bad their situation is. They've walked away from Western markets and now China can name their price. (And their price includes influence over territory.)I've seen two posts calling for a revolution.
I think its really hit home to them what they've done.
One of the reasons the nations supporting Ukraine have given aid in iterative steps is because of the fear of escalation. Feels like there might be less fear now.
J4CKO said:
Wombat3 said:
8bit said:
Digga said:
Xi may well have played a blinder. His refusal to help (and the st agricultural deal) may be the final nail for Putin within Russia.
Putin is beholden to Xi - surely Xi will want to keep him where he is, at least until he can install a viable (or better) alternative?t agricultural deal) may be the final nail for Putin within Russia.h.Nonetheless both are f
ked by their demographics in the medium to long term anyway, its only a question of how much damage they do in the interim. 
dangerousB said:
Wombat3 said:
This has been obvious for quite a while...Russia is going to end up as China's bh.
Nonetheless both are fked by their demographics in the medium to long term anyway, its only a question of how much damage they do in the interim.
Or equitable partners. Who knows.h.Nonetheless both are f
ked by their demographics in the medium to long term anyway, its only a question of how much damage they do in the interim. Oh wait, you weren't serious were you?
dangerousB said:
Wombat3 said:
This has been obvious for quite a while...Russia is going to end up as China's bh.
Nonetheless both are fked by their demographics in the medium to long term anyway, its only a question of how much damage they do in the interim.
Or equitable partners. Who knows.h.Nonetheless both are f
ked by their demographics in the medium to long term anyway, its only a question of how much damage they do in the interim. Supposedly Russia has a lot of stuff that goes "Bang" but judging by the state of the rest of their kit a box of soggy matches comes to mind.
China will just "buy" resources from Russia at the price it decides it wants to pay.
The full Russia / China statement: http://www.en.kremlin.ru/supplement/5770
I warn you in advance that it has enough waffle to be served with cappuccino*. Whatever staff the leaders had with them did not include a competent editor.
Most of it is known geopolitical talking points, however it's worth a read if you want to know China's geopolitical goals and outlook (that the Russians presumably signed up to).
I have serious problems with Xi Jinping's concept of democracy.
<><><>
Something that's worth noting is that the Chinese and Russian leaders meet every year to put out a joint statement and have done for well over a decade (probably longer, not going to sift through the google mess to get the date of when it started.)
Point being that Xi visiting Russia is not some diplomatic event occasioned by the war in Ukraine but a regularly scheduled meeting that happens every year. The statement currently being put out needs to be understood in the context of decades worth of diplomacy, however I can not provide that context.
<><><>
*For any confused people from the Americas this is a waffle, you have it with coffee - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stroopwafel
I believe we have the same colloquialism, to waffle, meaning to say very little with a lot of words.
I warn you in advance that it has enough waffle to be served with cappuccino*. Whatever staff the leaders had with them did not include a competent editor.
Most of it is known geopolitical talking points, however it's worth a read if you want to know China's geopolitical goals and outlook (that the Russians presumably signed up to).
I have serious problems with Xi Jinping's concept of democracy.
<><><>
Something that's worth noting is that the Chinese and Russian leaders meet every year to put out a joint statement and have done for well over a decade (probably longer, not going to sift through the google mess to get the date of when it started.)
Point being that Xi visiting Russia is not some diplomatic event occasioned by the war in Ukraine but a regularly scheduled meeting that happens every year. The statement currently being put out needs to be understood in the context of decades worth of diplomacy, however I can not provide that context.
<><><>
*For any confused people from the Americas this is a waffle, you have it with coffee - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stroopwafel
I believe we have the same colloquialism, to waffle, meaning to say very little with a lot of words.
dangerousB said:
Wombat3 said:
This has been obvious for quite a while...Russia is going to end up as China's bh.
Nonetheless both are fked by their demographics in the medium to long term anyway, its only a question of how much damage they do in the interim.
Or equitable partners. Who knows.h.Nonetheless both are f
ked by their demographics in the medium to long term anyway, its only a question of how much damage they do in the interim. 
Good one!!!
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