Russia Invades Ukraine. Volume 4

[pingu393]

sisu said:

Benni said:

sisu said:

The tank to tank combat kill in 1991 at 5.1 miles against a T54 with a depleted uranium shell.
Could the Ukrainians have a hold my beer moment this Summer?
I know a tank is better than no tank, but this would be a nice scalp to get.

Could be possible, the UK military help to UKR does not only mean Challenger tanks,
but also DU ammo, which is quite controversially discussed amongst medics and defense suppliers.

Depleted means it does not have any more Radioactivity. It is a very dense metal one and a half more than than lead, they used it in F1 as ballast. Yes if you ingest it you will get sick, much like eating a remote control battery will kill you. But so will lead.

I helped recover the Challenger that was killed by a blue-on-blue DU round in Iraq. We wore full NBC and were hosed down afterwards. DU is perfectly safe until it hits the target and it's vapourised into dust. If you ingest the dust nasty things may happen. On your skin, no problem, just wash it off. In your eyes or mouth, big risk.

[Puggit]

Rivet Joint goes for a gander along the Finland/Russia border...



https://twitter.com/The_Lookout_N/status/163884239...

[isaldiri]

madbadger said:

sisu said:

. It is a very dense metal one and a half more than than lead, they used it in F1 as ballast. .

Do they?

According to the periodic table on my phone uranium has a density of 19.1, something widely available and relatively cheap like tungsten is 19.3. I'm sure other dense options are out there like platinum, but it seems odd they would pick uranium as a sensible ballast.

The chances of F1 teams using DU as ballast I suspect are zero because of the risks involved if it ignites at high temperatures which just might be possible in a racing incident........

[silentbrown]

isaldiri said:

The chances of F1 teams using DU as ballast I suspect are zero because of the risks involved if it ignites at high temperatures which just might be possible in a racing incident........

https://www.quora.com/Does-a-tungsten-dart-penetrate-armor-better-than-depleted-uranium

"The advantage of DU penetrators is that they have a self-sharpening behavior due to adiabatic shear bands aggregating on the sides of the tip rather than on the front. This is a unique behavior and very very useful in penetration."

[J4CKO]

silentbrown said:

"This is a unique behavior and very very useful in penetration."

Ann Summers will have a new range out by Christmas !

[pingu393]

J4CKO said:

silentbrown said:

"This is a unique behavior and very very useful in penetration."

Ann Summers will have a new range out by Christmas !

DU-FU (or, as named in the catalogue, a doofoo)

[8bit]

Gecko1978 said:

IIRC a top gear segment talked about fitting catalytic converters to all UK tanks Clarkson made the reference out the front DU rounds out the bank slightly less CO2

To be fair though, the tank is burning fuel (and a hell of a lot of it!) the whole time the engine is running, it's not constantly firing DU rounds as it potters around in peace time. Usual Clarkson bolllocks really.

PRTVR said:

I am sure a risk assessment will have been done before handing over the DU ammunition, then it’s the Ukrainians choice to use them, remember Russia had no problem using nerve agents on British soil.

There is absolutely that as well, now is the time to be taking Russia to task for that. Back to the DU shells, Russia have their own version of these and I'm assuming some of those remained in Ukraine and may have been used in Ukrainian tanks already, and not a peep. This is just Russia trying to claim that this is the West beginning to use "nuclear" weapons against them, which is about as credible as Clarkson...

[GT03ROB]

pingu393 said:

sisu said:

Benni said:

sisu said:

The tank to tank combat kill in 1991 at 5.1 miles against a T54 with a depleted uranium shell.
Could the Ukrainians have a hold my beer moment this Summer?
I know a tank is better than no tank, but this would be a nice scalp to get.

Could be possible, the UK military help to UKR does not only mean Challenger tanks,
but also DU ammo, which is quite controversially discussed amongst medics and defense suppliers.

Depleted means it does not have any more Radioactivity. It is a very dense metal one and a half more than than lead, they used it in F1 as ballast. Yes if you ingest it you will get sick, much like eating a remote control battery will kill you. But so will lead.

I helped recover the Challenger that was killed by a blue-on-blue DU round in Iraq. We wore full NBC and were hosed down afterwards. DU is perfectly safe until it hits the target and it's vapourised into dust. If you ingest the dust nasty things may happen. On your skin, no problem, just wash it off. In your eyes or mouth, big risk.

I worked in Kuwait for several years. There remained a fair amount of UXO around northern Kuwait. Surprisingly there was the odd surprise when site work turned up old Iraqi tanks which had been destroyed and buried. This was a major problem as it required the coordination of 2 separate teams before removal. Before the team where allowed near it to check for any ordanance, a radiological team had to check & then clear it if required. Would take ages to clear of any Du & then explosives.

[TTmonkey]

GT03ROB said:

pingu393 said:

sisu said:

Benni said:

sisu said:

The tank to tank combat kill in 1991 at 5.1 miles against a T54 with a depleted uranium shell.
Could the Ukrainians have a hold my beer moment this Summer?
I know a tank is better than no tank, but this would be a nice scalp to get.

Could be possible, the UK military help to UKR does not only mean Challenger tanks,
but also DU ammo, which is quite controversially discussed amongst medics and defense suppliers.

Depleted means it does not have any more Radioactivity. It is a very dense metal one and a half more than than lead, they used it in F1 as ballast. Yes if you ingest it you will get sick, much like eating a remote control battery will kill you. But so will lead.

I helped recover the Challenger that was killed by a blue-on-blue DU round in Iraq. We wore full NBC and were hosed down afterwards. DU is perfectly safe until it hits the target and it's vapourised into dust. If you ingest the dust nasty things may happen. On your skin, no problem, just wash it off. In your eyes or mouth, big risk.

I worked in Kuwait for several years. There remained a fair amount of UXO around northern Kuwait. Surprisingly there was the odd surprise when site work turned up old Iraqi tanks which had been destroyed and buried. This was a major problem as it required the coordination of 2 separate teams before removal. Before the team where allowed near it to check for any ordanance, a radiological team had to check & then clear it if required. Would take ages to clear of any Du & then explosives.

I hope you checked the fuel tanks for other items….?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=km5k60PR1dU

[Puggit]

Denmark, Norway, Finland and Sweden agree to act as one airforce

https://twitter.com/The_Lookout_N/status/163888470...

[Puggit]

Ukraine officially requests that Finland send them F/A-18 Hornets

https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/16388333555...

[velocemitch]

madbadger said:

sisu said:

. It is a very dense metal one and a half more than than lead, they used it in F1 as ballast. .

Do they?

According to the periodic table on my phone uranium has a density of 19.1, something widely available and relatively cheap like tungsten is 19.3. I'm sure other dense options are out there like platinum, but it seems odd they would pick uranium as a sensible ballast.

I’m not really sure why but we used depleted uranium in the bearings for some special roof trusses in the HQ of a UK company some time ago. It surprised me at the time and I’ve never seen it used in construction since.

[isaldiri]

silentbrown said:

isaldiri said:

The chances of F1 teams using DU as ballast I suspect are zero because of the risks involved if it ignites at high temperatures which just might be possible in a racing incident........

https://www.quora.com/Does-a-tungsten-dart-penetrate-armor-better-than-depleted-uranium

"The advantage of DU penetrators is that they have a self-sharpening behavior due to adiabatic shear bands aggregating on the sides of the tip rather than on the front. This is a unique behavior and very very useful in penetration."

Well the capability of DU in the use of armour plating projectiles is not in question. The post per above was addressing the likelihood (or not) of DU being used as ballast in a F1 car so of little to no relevance to what your post referred to.

[BikeBikeBIke]

Listened to the Telegraph Podcast on my lunchtime run, always excellent the first 20 minutes of this were superb.

A really interesting point was made, perhaps obvious but we never acknowledge it.

Western Democracies are pretty stable. We are going to be here for a long time. If we do collapse, we'll likely go down gradually with warning, because that's typically how democracies die. In contrast Dictatorships collapse suddenly, with little warning.

Putin is a 70yo man. He could die tomorrow of natural causes. He will be frail or dead within 10 years or so. He could be deposed at any moment. Russia's economy is going down the toilet. (See also Xi. China and Xi are both on the decline. Xi's decline will be natural, China's decline may be slow, but due to demographics it's inevitable.)

If (as seems likely) this war becomes a frozen conflict and a waiting game, the west likely won't lose. The West's resolve might weaken, but it won't collapse. Putin literally will collapse over the next 20 years or perhaps tomorrow. Ditto Xi. The West are much better placed for a waiting game.

Another thought of my own. If Ukraine attacked Russia as Russia claim, why didn't the CSTO all get stuck in? the contradictions in Russia's case are obvious and many, and Russians know that.

[J4CKO]

velocemitch said:

madbadger said:

sisu said:

. It is a very dense metal one and a half more than than lead, they used it in F1 as ballast. .

Do they?

According to the periodic table on my phone uranium has a density of 19.1, something widely available and relatively cheap like tungsten is 19.3. I'm sure other dense options are out there like platinum, but it seems odd they would pick uranium as a sensible ballast.

I’m not really sure why but we used depleted uranium in the bearings for some special roof trusses in the HQ of a UK company some time ago. It surprised me at the time and I’ve never seen it used in construction since.

Was it to conduct Psychokinetic energy during weird ceremonies ?

[velocemitch]

J4CKO said:

velocemitch said:

madbadger said:

sisu said:

. It is a very dense metal one and a half more than than lead, they used it in F1 as ballast. .

Do they?

According to the periodic table on my phone uranium has a density of 19.1, something widely available and relatively cheap like tungsten is 19.3. I'm sure other dense options are out there like platinum, but it seems odd they would pick uranium as a sensible ballast.

I’m not really sure why but we used depleted uranium in the bearings for some special roof trusses in the HQ of a UK company some time ago. It surprised me at the time and I’ve never seen it used in construction since.

Was it to conduct Psychokinetic energy during weird ceremonies ?

That certainly doesn’t fit with the demographics of the companies customers. But I’m not elaborating who it is.

[Digga]

J4CKO said:

Was it to conduct Psychokinetic energy during weird ceremonies ?

IME easier to use a pentagram of chicken's blood and a copy of Caravaning & Camping.

[TTmonkey]

BikeBikeBIke said:

Listened to the Telegraph Podcast on my lunchtime run, always excellent the first 20 minutes of this were superb.

A really interesting point was made, perhaps obvious but we never acknowledge it.

Western Democracies are pretty stable. We are going to be here for a long time. If we do collapse, we'll likely go down gradually with warning, because that's typically how democracies die. In contrast Dictatorships collapse suddenly, with little warning.

Putin is a 70yo man. He could die tomorrow of natural causes. He will be frail or dead within 10 years or so. He could be deposed at any moment. Russia's economy is going down the toilet. (See also Xi. China and Xi are both on the decline. Xi's decline will be natural, China's decline may be slow, but due to demographics it's inevitable.)

If (as seems likely) this war becomes a frozen conflict and a waiting game, the west likely won't lose. The West's resolve might weaken, but it won't collapse. Putin literally will collapse over the next 20 years or perhaps tomorrow. Ditto Xi. The West are much better placed for a waiting game.

Another thought of my own. If Ukraine attacked Russia as Russia claim, why didn't the CSTO all get stuck in? the contradictions in Russia's case are obvious and many, and Russians know that.

Democracies don’t need to die for support to suddenly be withdrawn for this conflict. The electorate just needs to vote for a candidate that says “we will stop supporting/escalating this conflict and let Putin get away with it if you vote for ME”.
As such, I’d say democracies are very much less stable than a dictatorship, and I’ve not seen many dictatorships fall and democracy immediately take its place without violent insurrection and civil wars. It generally takes years and years for functioning democracies to replace dictatorships.

I hope Putin dies tomorrow. But I can only see him being replaced by yet another hard man that rules as a dictator even if there is ‘elections’. Could even be more dangerous.

[Castrol for a knave]

Puggit said:

Denmark, Norway, Finland and Sweden agree to act as one airforce

https://twitter.com/The_Lookout_N/status/163888470...

Just had 2 Finnish F18s over the house. Apparently on exercise with the RAF.

[BikeBikeBIke]

TTmonkey said:

Democracies don’t need to die for support to suddenly be withdrawn for this conflict. The electorate just needs to vote for a candidate that says “we will stop supporting/escalating this conflict and let Putin get away with it if you vote for ME”.
As such, I’d say democracies are very much less stable than a dictatorship, and I’ve not seen many dictatorships fall and democracy immediately take its place without violent insurrection and civil wars. It generally takes years and years for functioning democracies to replace dictatorships.

I hope Putin dies tomorrow. But I can only see him being replaced by yet another hard man that rules as a dictator even if there is ‘elections’. Could even be more dangerous.

It only needs enough democracies to keep supplying Ukraine to maintain a frozen conflict. It doesn't need all of them.

If Putin is replaced by another hardman that hardman is highly likely to come to power promising "End the war restore the economy". Continuing the war helps keep Putin alive and out of prison. He successor will have completely different imperatives.